Why does everyone want to dump Jon Garland?

[Guest JimH]

And everyone assumes that Garland can't be re-signed.  I don't buy that either.  He rejected the Sox first offer.  So what?  Until arbitration arrives, I'm sure he'll be willing to talk about a deal.

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Well VAFan, just like all those Giles threads, you have wasted your time.

 

It doesn't matter what everyone assumes, it matters what Ken Williams and the White Sox front office think.

 

They think he wants to test free agency.

 

The White Sox don't want to let him walk for nothing.

 

It is that simple, please stop trying to complicate things. Read what Williams says, then watch his actions. There is a definite pattern. They want cost certainty while fielding the most competitive team possible.

[Rowand44]

Evidently not accepting the team's first proposal for a contract extension, believed to be 3 years/24 million means you don't want to play for the White Sox according to Soxtalk. A lot of people are speculating on what Garland would command in the open market, and the figures on this board are so much higher than the White Sox reported offer, he would be a fool to accept said offer.

Well considering Kenny believes that he needs to move on from Jon I think I'll go along with him, considering he's a little closer to the situation then we are.

[Guest JimH]

Evidently not accepting the team's first proposal for a contract extension, believed to be 3 years/24 million means you don't want to play for the White Sox according to Soxtalk. around, he's pitching for a contract. Worst case scenerio, you get the draft picks.

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It really is simple DA, they offer what they feel they can pay and what they feel he's worth to them.

 

If the guy declines, it's his right, and it's the White Sox right to shop him for some other talent.

 

They just put themselves in the drivers seat by acquiring a comparable pitcher.

 

It is likely they have a more acute awareness of this whole situation than any of us do, and they're playing their cards accordingly.

[Dick Allen]

Well VAFan, just like all those Giles threads, you have wasted your time.

 

It doesn't matter what everyone assumes, it matters what Ken Williams and the White Sox front office think.

 

They think he wants to test free agency.

 

The White Sox don't want to let him walk for nothing.

 

It is that simple, please stop trying to complicate things.  Read what Williams says, then watch his actions.  There is a definite pattern.  They want cost certainty while fielding the most competitive team possible.

You keep bringing up cost certainty. If that is the White Sox end all, why did KW refuse to negotiate with Konerko last offseason? The problem with not doing that is everyone, players and agents included, see how much more Konerko is going to have to play with, and no one is going to sign a contract well below market value. If Esteban Loiasa gets $21 million over 3 years, there is no telling what these White Sox pitchers next contracts are going to look like if they play their cards right and don't let KW bully them.

[Dick Allen]

Well considering Kenny believes that he needs to move on from Jon I think I'll go along with him, considering he's a little closer to the situation then we are.

KW makes mistakes once in a while. Last year everything worked out perfectly, even the greatest GMs don't have that happen too often. I do think if he trades him it will be to the NL or to a second or third tier team in the AL. He wouldn't want Garland to bite him in the ass next season.

[Guest JimH]

You keep bringing up cost certainty. If that is the White Sox end all, why did KW refuse to negotiate with Konerko last offseason? The problem with not doing that is everyone, players and agents included, see how much more Konerko is going to have to play with, and no one is going to sign a contract well below market value. If Esteban Loiasa gets $21 million over 3 years, there is no telling what these White Sox pitchers next contracts are going to look like if they play their cards right and don't let KW bully them.

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Ha, big bad KW, bullying these poor players. Now that's funny.

 

Yes I keep bringing up cost certainty because I am thinking along with the GM and front office, seeing how they do business, and then trying to predict what they do based on they way they do things.

 

Konerko's situation was different. They don't win, they wouldn't have re-signed him. Simple. They didn't sign him long term because they were not a good team in 2004 and they knew they wanted more pitching, which signing Konerko may have precluded them from getting.

 

They won, they have more money now, it's a new scenario.

[Rowand44]

KW makes mistakes once in a while. Last year everything worked out perfectly, even the greatest GMs don't have that happen too often. I do think if he trades him it will be to the NL or to a second or third tier team in the AL. He wouldn't want Garland to bite him in the ass next season.

Every gm makes mistakes so sure he's going to make some, but my point is that he's closer to the Garland situation then we are and he obviously feels that he offered Jon a fair contract and now he has to move on.

[AddisonStSox]

Jon Garland isn't Tom Seaver.

 

Aaron Rowand isn't Stan Musial.

 

Right? I just want to make sure I haven't missed something.

[Wanne]

You keep bringing up cost certainty. If that is the White Sox end all, why did KW refuse to negotiate with Konerko last offseason? The problem with not doing that is everyone, players and agents included, see how much more Konerko is going to have to play with, and no one is going to sign a contract well below market value. If Esteban Loiasa gets $21 million over 3 years, there is no telling what these White Sox pitchers next contracts are going to look like if they play their cards right and don't let KW bully them.

 

I think you answered your own question DA. Did you or KW know PK was going to have a solid year again and be a post season hero?!? He could have fallen flat on his face this year and KW was just being cautious in case he needed to move in another direction other than Paulie. All he's saying is he doesn't want to put himself in a situation like they were with Paulie this off season and have their hands tied by other teams overspending.

[Guest JimH]

I think you answered your own question DA.  Did you or KW know PK was going to have a solid year again and be a post season hero?!?  He could have fallen flat on his face this year and KW was just being cautious in case he needed to move in another direction other than Paulie.  All he's saying is he doesn't want to put himself in a situation like they were with Paulie this off season and have their hands tied by other teams overspending.

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3 stars for the man from the West Valley.

[quickman]

Jon Garland isn't Tom Seaver. 

 

Aaron Rowand isn't Stan Musial.

 

Right?  I just want to make sure I haven't missed something.

 

 

Whoa, is that you? Drugs wear off from this mornings tirade?

[AddisonStSox]

Whoa, is that you? Drugs wear off from this mornings tirade?

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah...finals week. Cut a guy some slack.

 

Crisis averted.

[knightni]

Jon Garland isn't Tom Seaver. 

 

Aaron Rowand isn't Stan Musial.

 

Right?  I just want to make sure I haven't missed something.

I'm guessing that Chris Young is Barry Bonds though, huh?

[Dick Allen]

Ha, big bad KW, bullying these poor players.  Now that's funny.

 

Yes I keep bringing up cost certainty because I am thinking along with the GM and front office, seeing how they do business, and then trying to predict what they do based on they way they do things. 

 

Konerko's situation was different.  They don't win, they wouldn't have re-signed him.  Simple.  They didn't sign him long term because they were not a good team in 2004 and they knew they wanted more pitching, which signing Konerko may have precluded them from getting.

 

They won, they have more money now, it's a new scenario.

Well he is trying to bully Garland and Contreras into signing extensions, and Garland's supposed offer is well below what he would get if he became a free agent and pitched anywhere near like he did in 2005. If Contreras turns down the offer is he going to be moved as well? Personally, I really don't think KW or JR want too much guaranteed 3 or 4 years down the line. I think they would like some flexibility.

[Dick Allen]

I think you answered your own question DA.  Did you or KW know PK was going to have a solid year again and be a post season hero?!?  He could have fallen flat on his face this year and KW was just being cautious in case he needed to move in another direction other than Paulie.  All he's saying is he doesn't want to put himself in a situation like they were with Paulie this off season and have their hands tied by other teams overspending.

KW's approach with Konerko cost the White Sox a lot of money and obligations for at least 1 if not 2 more seasons with him.

[fathom]

I don't want Garland on the team next year if it's a sure thing he's not coming back. Those situations can get ugly, and I'm not sure how Ozzie/Garland would publically handle the situation.

[fathom]

KW's approach with Konerko cost the White Sox a lot of money and obligations for at least 1 if not 2 more seasons with him.

 

I said this yesterday: KW learned his lesson this season in regards to the PK situation. I guarantee we'll continue to be more active in trying to resign the players that we want to extend the years on the deal, and we'll be more active in trading guys who we don't think we can bring back.

[Dick Allen]

I think you answered your own question DA.  Did you or KW know PK was going to have a solid year again and be a post season hero?!?  He could have fallen flat on his face this year and KW was just being cautious in case he needed to move in another direction other than Paulie.  All he's saying is he doesn't want to put himself in a situation like they were with Paulie this off season and have their hands tied by other teams overspending.

If KW didn't know if Konerko was going to have a solid year again, how can he be so sure Garland and Contreras are if he is offering them extensions. Of the 3 of them, Konerko was surely the best bet to have a big year in 2005. I think its pretty clear KW wants to get guys signed so it won't cost him like it did to sign Konerko. I think both Garland and Contreras should be solid in 2006. It may be tough for them to match their 2005 numbers, but anything close, how could you say they don't deserve a contract equal or better to the one Vazquez is playing under?

[White Sox Josh]

Why trade Garland now? Unless it is for an impact player just keep the pitching staff as it is. This is the best rotation in baseball. So why not just keep him and go for it. If worst comes to worst you offer him Arbitration and get a draft pick. Let's win it next year and I think having Garland gives us a better shot to do that.

[Guest JimH]

KW's approach with Konerko cost the White Sox a lot of money and obligations for at least 1 if not 2 more seasons with him.

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Right.

 

That's why he doesn't want to go thru this again.

 

In answer to your question about Contreras, I would say in all likelihood, yes.

[HoosierSox]

I think KW is getting freaked about how much Jon G. gets in free agency next year especially if he has another year like he just did. I would say at least 12 mil./per for multiple years. Getting Vaz does two things:

 

Insurance in case Garland or Contreras bolts next year

 

Gives Kenny some leverage to resign at least one of them now before the money gets out of hand and/or make another deal knowing we have BMAC ready to start now.

[Dick Allen]

I don't want Garland on the team next year if it's a sure thing he's not coming back.  Those situations can get ugly, and I'm not sure how Ozzie/Garland would publically handle the situation.

With some players, I would agree with you, but Garland is pretty laid back. I don't think it would bother him at all to play with a one year deal, and head back to California for his huge contract. I would hate to trade Garland and get a package back like the great Omar Minaya got for Bartolo Colon. For some reason I see Garland going and 3 Jon Adkins coming back.

[Guest JimH]

Why trade Garland now?  Unless it is for an impact player just keep the pitching staff as it is.  This is the best rotation in baseball.  So why not just keep him and go for it.  If worst comes to worst you offer him Arbitration and get a draft pick.  Let's win it next year and I think having Garland gives us a better shot to do that.

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If only it were that simple.

[3E8]

Are we positive Garland's offer was 3/24, or is that conjecture?

[Guest JimH]

For some reason I see Garland going and 3 Jon Adkins coming back.

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Why is that, has the GM not proven himself?