fathom Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:15 PM) For some reason I see Garland going and 3 Jon Adkins coming back. I had the same exact thought! That's why I said earlier that it would be really disappointing if KW didn't cash in and get some top talent for Garland after all the top talent he's given up for Thome and Vazquez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 05:16 PM) Why is that, has the GM not proven himself? KW seems to have given a pretty big discount to teams acquiring White Sox players with expiring contracts in the past. That Durham trade was ridiculous, considering the White Sox paid most of his contract anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I had the same exact thought! That's why I said earlier that it would be really disappointing if KW didn't cash in and get some top talent for Garland after all the top talent he's given up for Thome and Vazquez. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can someone tell me where these gigantic glasses of "Expect The Worst" are being dispensed so I can avoid the area please. Top talent? Rowand, El Duque, Vizcaino, and prospects?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 KW seems to have given a pretty big discount to teams acquiring White Sox players with expiring contracts in the past. That Durham trade was ridiculous, considering the White Sox paid most of his contract anyway. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The question still stands, has he not proven himself? I would say he has, but then again World Series titles tend to do that to me. I may not be thinking clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:23 PM) Can someone tell me where these gigantic glasses of "Expect The Worst" are being dispensed so I can avoid the area please. Top talent? Rowand, El Duque, Vizcaino, and prospects?? We gave up our top hitting prospect and our top pitching prospect for two players who are definite question marks. If we don't acquire another team's top prospect for Jon Garland, then I think that's a bad trade by Garland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 05:23 PM) Can someone tell me where these gigantic glasses of "Expect The Worst" are being dispensed so I can avoid the area please. Top talent? Rowand, El Duque, Vizcaino, and prospects?? I'm pretty sure he is talking about the prospects. When's the last time the White Sox acquired a top prospect from another organization? I can't remember. Maybe Jerry Owens, but I don't think he was all that highly thought of. The White Sox are going to need some cheap players on their roster. It would be nice if these cheap players could actually play a little bit. Edited December 14, 2005 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:24 PM) The question still stands, has he not proven himself? I would say he has, but then again World Series titles tend to do that to me. I may not be thinking clearly. We all love KW for what he brought to this team last season. However, this doesn't mean he's not free of criticism for moves that people might not possibly like. As you keep saying, who the hell cares what we say on a message board. This is all for discussion anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 We gave up our top hitting prospect and our top pitching prospect for two players who are definite question marks. If we don't acquire another team's top prospect for Jon Garland, then I think that's a bad trade by Garland. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh. My. God. You really do find the dark cloud in every blue sky don't you? Is there some magical number of "top prospects" that must be in the system in order for you to be happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 We all love KW for what he brought to this team last season. However, this doesn't mean he's not free of criticism for moves that people might not possibly like. As you keep saying, who the hell cares what we say on a message board. This is all for discussion anyways. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I didn't say he was free of criticism, although I think most of your criticism is nitpicking to the nth degree. They haven't traded Garland yet, how about waiting to stand on the ledge until such time as they do? Or if they do? I think they have proven themselves to be thinking ahead enough that no one needs to be excessively worried about acquiring prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Hey, I see quickman is on line. I have a question, is 2006 the year of the Baj? They have a couple openings in the bullpen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 People on this board are worried about prospects and our payroll going up, turning us into the yankees! Whitesox fans are oppressed. We win the world series and are setting up for a repeat, and people are worried about some guy in double A who may be good in 2008. We obviously have been granted more money to spend. We should celebrate, but no we must worry, we must think small. We start thinking big like tejeda and god forbid we give up a prospect. This reminds me of my youth when I fell in love with players and looked at there pictures or baseball cards. Pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 People on this board are worried about prospects and our payroll going up, turning us into the yankees! Whitesox fans are oppressed. We win the world series and are setting up for a repeat, and people are worried about some guy in double A who may be good in 2008. We obviously have been granted more money to spend. We should celebrate, but no we must worry, we must think small. We start thinking big like tejeda and god forbid we give up a prospect. This reminds me of my youth when I fell in love with players and looked at there pictures or baseball cards. Pathetic <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I gave you one of those cards. Dick Allen, wasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:34 PM) Hey, I see quickman is on line. I have a question, is 2006 the year of the Baj? They have a couple openings in the bullpen. hate BAJ, but he may get a mob up role.It would make everyone here happy. s*** throw bullard in there as well. the board would go nuts. I think KW will have a plan. I will wait before I jump off a building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I will wait before I jump off a building. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> MUST you??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 BAJ, but he may get a mob up role. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What, he'll look like Robert DiNiro coming in from the pen, and have Sharon Stone on his arm? "You bein' a wise guy? Huh? You bein' a wise guy?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:27 PM) Oh. My. God. You really do find the dark cloud in every blue sky don't you? Is there some magical number of "top prospects" that must be in the system in order for you to be happy? Trust me, I'm not one of these guys who fall in love with every prospect in the system, and then cries when they get traded. However, considering what I've heard about Owens, Sweeney, and Young, it really sucks that we gave up Young. And you might want to read most of the posts I've had in the last two days, as I've not been overly critical about these deals at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 QUOTE(quickman @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 11:39 PM) People on this board are worried about prospects and our payroll going up, turning us into the yankees! Whitesox fans are oppressed. We win the world series and are setting up for a repeat, and people are worried about some guy in double A who may be good in 2008. We obviously have been granted more money to spend. We should celebrate, but no we must worry, we must think small. We start thinking big like tejeda and god forbid we give up a prospect. This reminds me of my youth when I fell in love with players and looked at there pictures or baseball cards. Pathetic I'd like to note that neither Jim Thome nor Javy Vazquez are as sure a thing going into the 2006 season as Miggy Tejada is. I would've been all for sending a top prospect Baltimore's way in order to land Tejada. It makes me sad, losing a guy who went from low-A to double-A and didn't have a whole lot of trouble dominating the competition, in hitting something like 60 x-tra basehits in one of the best pitching parks in the minor leagues, all while playing one of the most important defensive positions at an extremely high level. That said, I'm (somewhat) reserving judgement on this trade. I fully expect KW to cash in big time if and when he trades Garland. My hope is that it's in a package to land Miguel Tejada; which, if I may dream for a moment, would give the White Sox a top five offense, to go along with a top five pitching staff and a top five defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 WHarris why are you so down on Garland? The guy was a freaking hero for us in a World Series season. Keep Jon Garland! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 07:55 PM) WHarris why are you so down on Garland? The guy was a freaking hero for us in a World Series season. Keep Jon Garland! I'm not down on Garland. I just realize he is not a teriffic pitcher at this point and has yet to string together a few good seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 If you can get Tejada for Garland, Uribe, and prospect(s), you have to do it. It looks like we will have Garland for only one season and Tejada >>> Uribe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 05:08 PM) I don't want Garland on the team next year if it's a sure thing he's not coming back. Those situations can get ugly, and I'm not sure how Ozzie/Garland would publically handle the situation. I want JG back just for the simple reason that it is his free agent year and if he wants to cash in, he should have a big year. $55 mill is a great motivator. On the flip side, JG should command premium talent. We should be able to get a lot more in return for him then we gave up to get Vazquez. Vazquez is older, had a bigger contract, had worse stats, and demanded a trade as was his right. If JG is traded, it can be one of those moves where the team is strengthened (if they get say a better reliever or 2then Marte or Vizcaino) as well as fill out some areas in the farm system to add depth for the future. Like it or not KW is not done yet. McCarthy isn't going to the minors for another year, and I don't think the Sox want him in the bullpen. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 There's a lot of sentiment that the Sox should trade Garland because we are getting the perception that Garland will not stay with the Sox after the coming season. With the depth the Sox currently have in starting pitching, it makes sense to try and move him and get something in return as opposed to letting him go and getting nothing back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Fair enough W Harris, but I hope people don't ever forget what a stud Jon was last year. Man he was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 05:25 PM) We gave up our top hitting prospect and our top pitching prospect for two players who are definite question marks. If we don't acquire another team's top prospect for Jon Garland, then I think that's a bad trade by Garland. prospects? yawn. i want to make the moves that solidify our LH pen and CF spot. if that means Garland being moved... i'm going to look at the replacement -- Vazquez -- and say... that switch will be worth it. that is if we're filling LHRP and CF with solid players. as far as restocking the farm system.... i dont get your sense of immediacy. we're positioning ourselves to be contenders for a few years in a row here. if all goes well, the young prospects we have ..even right now... shouldnt see the field anyway. restocking the farm system with trades is so Tampa anyway. hasnt KW taught us anything? win now. and it worked. believe it or not, trading a bunch of prospects for Carl Everett twice actually WORKED. Edited December 15, 2005 by Princess Dye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 I've been a supporter of Jon Garland for a long time, as many Soxtalk veterans can attest to. However, I have never believed Jon wanted to make it career in silver and black. Why is Kenny probably going to trade Garland? Let's look at AJ Burnett vs. Garland. I may be slightly off on some of this as I'm going from memory. Burnett is 29, Garland 26. They've had the same number of big league seasons. Garland has about 15 more career wins than Burnett. Burnett got sent home by his team last season. Burnett has had arm problems leading to DL time while Garland has pitched 200+ innings every year since he stepped in as a rotation fixture. Who's more valuable, Garland or Burnett? Burnett just signed a 5 year $55 million contract. What would Garland command. he can use all those points in his negotiations. Is 7 years at $12 million per extravagant in comparison? Garland can make a logical argument for it in my opinion. Is JR going to sign him to a 7 year $84 million contract? I seriously doubt it. I think the reason KW is looking to trade Garland is pretty self evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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