Crede and Garland to Texas?

[RockRaines]

Let me continue my post.

The issue is that Litetrain thinks Blalock is not an upgrade.

 

Lets use other sources instead of ESPN and my opinion shall we?

 

How about CBS's player rankings by position.

 

Blalock 6

Crede 19

It also points out that he led AL 3B in fielding this year.

[drowninginflame]

word up

[southsideirish71]

If you're willing to give up on Field already, then I'm glad you're not a GM. It's been proven that Blalock is nothing outside of Ameriquest and is a horrible 2nd half player. I'm willing to ride out Crede for a year especially since it took Beltre that long as well to break out. Again, I'm not against trading Crede for an upgrade, but Blalock is not an upgrade.

 

The only problem Nite is that you have only a few oober guys out there that you believe are better than Crede. Chavez and thats pretty much about it. If we could get Hank and reaching for a pie in the sky like Danks for that package you do it.

[nitetrain8601]

Not an upgrade huh?

How many times has Crede been an All-star?

Has he ever surpassed 100 RBI's?

Has he even broken 80?

Career Numbers: Blalock .274 .338 .471 .809

                          Crede  .255 .303 .454 .742

thats just offense

 

How about we throw in some comparable players based on Baseball-reference.com

 

Crede: 1.Doug DeCinces 2. Max Alvis 3. Butch Hobson

Blalock 1.Scott Rolen 2. Eric Chavez 3. Ken Keltner

 

Blalock is only 25 years old too!!!  With a better contract, better agent, better future.  Come on.

 

1)I already told you which guy who has been in a position to score that many RBI's and who has the protection. I suggest rereading that Rock.

 

2)All-Star appearances mean nothing. Robbie Alomar made the all-star game several times, let's go get him again since Iguchi hasn't...right.

 

3)You have to look at splits when looking at Blalock. There's a reason why Florida didn't end up dealing Beckett to Texas. One of the reasons is that Blalock stinks outside of Ameriquest Field and he stinks in the 2nd half.

 

If you don't want to accept those reasons, then fine by me. But Blalock doesn't project to be an upgrade over Crede.

 

I could care less how old each one is right now because they're both around the same age and neither is in their 30's. Talk about age when it's the difference between a 19 year old and a 25 year old. Or a 31 year old and a 25 year old.

[VAfan]

This is a better discussion.

 

I hate personal attacks (my shut up comment was only in defense to a lot of crap I've received after posting thoughtful posts) and much prefer actual analysis.

 

Nite train's numbers show Blalock may be better than he was last year, and maybe Blalock's second half decline is partly due to Texas heat. But I'm still convinced Crede is going to finally get more consistent offensively, and can be had for a reasonable price if we strike now.

[RockRaines]

2)All-Star appearances mean nothing. Robbie Alomar made the all-star game several times, let's go get him again since Iguchi hasn't...right.

 

If you don't want to accept those reasons, then fine by me. But Blalock doesn't project to be an upgrade over Crede.

 

I could care less how old each one is right now because they're both around the same age and neither is in their 30's. Talk about age when it's the difference between a 19 year old and a 25 year old. Or a 31 year old and a 25 year old.

Wow, comparing a player that is retired with a 25 year old who already has made 2 all star teams. You are digging yourself a deep hole today arent you? Would I take Alomar in his mid 20's over Gooch? f*** yeah.

 

Project to be an upgrade? Ummm he already is, defensively and offensively. Sorry man, comparing the two is pretty ignorant. Last time I checked we play half our games at home as well. Last time I checked, our park was one of the most hitter friendly in the MLB. Last time anyone with a brain checked, Blalock was better than Crede. Blalock is younger, cheaper, better, and not injured. HE IS BETTER.

[RockRaines]

Come on Nite, it cant possibly take you that long to tell me to look as his away splits blah blah blah.

[nitetrain8601]

The only problem Nite is that you have only a few oober guys out there that you believe are better than Crede.  Chavez and thats pretty much about it.  If we could get Hank and reaching for a pie in the sky like Danks for that package you do it.

 

I would trade Crede for a package of Blalock and someone else, but I'm not giving up Garland in that deal. That's overpayment for Blalock. Wilkerson doesn't interest me enough over Anderson either.

 

I'd take Chavez, Figgins, Wright, Ensberg and Glaus if he could stay healthy for a year. That's just off the top of my head.

[RockRaines]

I would trade Crede for a package of Blalock and someone else, but I'm not giving up Garland in that deal. That's overpayment for Blalock. Wilkerson doesn't interest me enough over Anderson either.

 

I'd take Chavez, Figgins, Wright, Ensberg and Glaus if he could stay healthy for a year. That's just off the top of my head.

It would be more like Crede and someone else for Blalock. Crede is not the player Blalock is dude. You are overvaluing your man crush by ALOT.

[nitetrain8601]

Wow, comparing a player that is retired with a 25 year old who already has made 2 all star teams.  You are digging yourself a deep hole today arent you?  Would I take Alomar in his mid 20's over Gooch?  f*** yeah.

 

Project to be an upgrade?  Ummm he already is, defensively and offensively.  Sorry man, comparing the two is pretty ignorant.  Last time I checked we play half our games at home as well.  Last time I checked, our park was one of the most hitter friendly in the MLB.  Last time anyone with a brain checked, Blalock was better than Crede.  Blalock is younger, cheaper, better, and not injured.  HE IS BETTER.

 

 

I showed you what Blalock hit in the Cell. He only had 1 good year. Even when you average that in, he's in the mid-.200's avg. He sucks in the 2nd half. Crede helped carry us in the 2nd half, Blalock wouldn't have.

 

Crede road > Blalock road

Blalock Home > Crede Home

 

Crede 2nd Half > Blalock 2nd half.

[nitetrain8601]

It would be more like Crede and someone else for Blalock.  Crede is not the player Blalock is dude.  You are overvaluing your man crush by ALOT.

 

The problem is you're seriously overrating Blalock. There's a reason why Texas wasn't as good of a road team as they were at home. Because none of their players could mash on the road minus Mark.

Edited December 15, 2005 by nitetrain8601

[GoodAsGould]

The problem is you're seriously overrating Blalock. There's a reason why Texas wasn't as good of a road team as they were at home. Because none of their players could mash on the road minus Mark.

 

No the problem is you are seriously underating Blalock and overating Crede like no other.

 

Dont worry about the Rally Crede just let it go

[nitetrain8601]

No the problem is you are seriously underating Blalock and overating Crede like no other.

 

Dont worry about the Rally Crede just let it go 

 

I think the stats prove my point more than enough. He sucks outside of Ameriquest Field and he sucks after the All-Star Game. I'm willing to give Crede a chance with his "new" stance than overpay for Blalock. I say overpay because Wilkerson doesn't interest me with all of our OF's and Danks and Diamond have yet to prove they'll be front end starters in AA, much less the majors.

[RockRaines]

I showed you what Blalock hit in the Cell. He only had 1 good year. Even when you average that in, he's in the mid-.200's avg. He sucks in the 2nd half. Crede helped carry us in the 2nd half, Blalock wouldn't have.

 

Crede road > Blalock road

Blalock Home > Crede Home

 

Crede 2nd Half > Blalock 2nd half.

Dude, how can you say he doesn hit at the cell. He had like 12 at bats. Come on master of all splits.

 

Blalock is a 2 time all star at age 25. His offensive numbers are superior. He led the Al 3B defensively. He is a better player, give it up. His numbers are better, his contract will be better, his health is better. You dont know what you are talking about. You want to go straight numbers, fine, I showed them to you , Crede is an Avg offensive player, he ranks as the 19th 3B, Blalock ranks 6th. Seriously, just log off for a bit.

[nitetrain8601]

Dude, how can you say he doesn hit at the cell.  He had like 12 at bats.  Come on master of all splits.

 

Blalock is a 2 time all star at age 25.  His offensive numbers are superior.  He led the Al 3B defensively.  He is a better player, give it up.  His numbers are better, his contract will be better, his health is better.  You dont know what you are talking about.  You want to go straight numbers, fine, I showed them to you , Crede is an Avg offensive player, he ranks as the 19th 3B, Blalock ranks 6th.  Seriously, just log off for a bit.

 

I suggest you relook at the number of at bats. It's not even close to 12 at bats. 37 at bats since 2003 to be exact.

 

You do realize that at least 1 player from each team makes the All-Star team right? Even the Kansas City Royals get a All-Star rep. He's not the better player unless you somehow find a way to bring the Texas air and Ameriquest Field to Chicago. I could care less about the contract since Crede's isn't up for another 2 years and we have Fields in the minors.

 

Yeah, but "you don't know what you're talking about" is a sure strong argument Rock. And I showed you the reason why Blalock is a better offensive player earlier in the thread and I told you once again why he has better offensive numbers. I don't think I'm the one who should be logging off for a bit.

Edited December 15, 2005 by nitetrain8601

[Dick Allen]

nitetrain, I noticed in the Frank Thomas thread you wrote you never want him to leave. Ever notice his horrific splits the last 4 or 5 seasons between home and away? There's nothing to say Blalock wouldn't flourish at USCF, and as to his numbers dying in the second half, maybe not playing in the 100 degree heat for half his schedule will keep him stronger.

[ZoomSlowik]

The bottom line is that we can reasonably expect Blalock to hit at least .260 with 25 homers, 80 RBI, and very good defense hitting 5th or 6th in our lineup. That's not really the case with Joe. He might break out this year, but who knows what's going to happen with him, especially since his back seems to be a bigger issue than most of us would have thought. Moving from Texas to the Cell doesn't mean that Blalock is going to hit .240. The Cell is still a fairly good hitters park, we just can't expect him to hit over .300 like he does in Texas. It's also possible that getting away from Safeco, Network Associates, and Edison Field helps him out. None of those parks are exactly hitter friendly, and about a quarter of his road games are at those parks.

[nitetrain8601]

nitetrain, I noticed in the Frank Thomas thread you wrote you never want him to leave. Ever notice his horrific splits the last 4 or 5 seasons between home and away? There's nothing to say Blalock wouldn't flourish at USCF, and as to his numbers dying in the second half, maybe not playing in the 100 degree heat for half his schedule will keep him stronger.

 

Because he was a White Sox for life. I never said I wanted him starting either, did I? I would've preferred for him to retire a Sox.

Edited December 15, 2005 by nitetrain8601

[RockRaines]

I suggest you relook at the number of at bats. It's not even close to 12 at bats. 37 at bats since 2003 to be exact.

 

You do realize that at least 1 player from each team makes the All-Star team right? Even the Kansas City Royals get a All-Star rep. He's not the better player unless you somehow find a way to bring the Texas air and Ameriquest Field to Chicago. I could care less about the contract since Crede's isn't up for another 2 years and we have Fields in the minors.

 

Yeah, but "you don't know what you're talking about" is a sure strong argument Rock. And I showed you the reason why Blalock is a better offensive player earlier in the thread and I told you once again why he has better offensive numbers. I don't think I'm the one who should be logging off for a bit.

Wow, I guess those 37 at bats is a pretty good split. Usually we determine a players worth by about 10 games. Come on dude.

 

Yes, every team gets an all-star, whats your point? Are you saying the he didnt deserve it? Or he was the only player on the team who went? Please say that, please/

 

Dude, I showed you numbers, I showed you expert rankings, I showed you defensive rankings, I showed you opinions. You still wont budge. Anybody out there who watched and knows baseball, knows that Crede is not as good a player as Blalock. Even if his home splits are better, so what? That is still part of who he is as a player. Crede sucks at home, does that mean we should just take into account that he is only the player that he is at home? You cant ignore certain parts of a person's game and compare them, our pitchers all have different home/away splits, does that mean that they arent as good as a player? No. Crede is not as good as Blalock, offensively OR defensively. And he is sure as hell more healthy and better at his age than Crede was. He has a higher ceiling and has already shown his ability.

[nitetrain8601]

The bottom line is that we can reasonably expect Blalock to hit at least .260 with 25 homers, 80 RBI, and very good defense hitting 5th or 6th in our lineup. That's not really the case with Joe. He might break out this year, but who knows what's going to happen with him, especially since his back seems to be a bigger issue than most of us would have thought. Moving from Texas to the Cell doesn't mean that Blalock is going to hit .240. The Cell is still a fairly good hitters park, we just can't expect him to hit over .300 like he does in Texas. It's also possible that getting away from Safeco, Network Associates, and Edison Field helps him out. None of those parks are exactly hitter friendly, and about a quarter of his road games are at those parks.

 

.252AVG, 22HR's, 62RBI's. That's out of the 9 slot with no protection and not really a spot in which you could produce mass RBI's. In the 3-4-5 role like Blalock, I think he would get at least 90 RBI's with 28 HR's and a .270avg with protection. Put Blalock in the 9 hole with no protection, he probably gets around the same or less than Crede.

[ZoomSlowik]

I suggest you relook at the number of at bats. It's not even close to 12 at bats. 37 at bats since 2003 to be exact.

 

You do realize that Blalock had at least 36 at bats this season in each of the parks in his division this year. 37 at bats in a player's entire career is not exactly a great sample size to conclude that he's going to suck here. You can't even go by 1 full season when making judgements about a player, and that's well over 500 at bats.

[RockRaines]

.252AVG, 22HR's, 62RBI's. That's out of the 9 slot with no protection and not really a spot in which you could produce mass RBI's. In the 3-4-5 role like Blalock, I think he would get at least 90 RBI's with 28 HR's and a .270avg with protection. Put Blalock in the 9 hole with no protection, he probably gets around the same or less than Crede.

You do know there is a reason he doesnt hit in the heart of the order. Because he is not that good, and not that consistent of a hitter. You cant just say, well, Royce Clayton may hit 200 at the bottom of the order, but if you put him at the 3rd spot he will hit 285. its just not that way.

[nitetrain8601]

Wow, I guess those 37 at bats is a pretty good split.  Usually we determine a players worth by about 10 games.  Come on dude.

 

Yes, every team gets an all-star, whats your point?  Are you saying the he didnt deserve it?  Or he was the only player on the team who went?  Please say that, please/

 

Dude, I showed you numbers, I showed you expert rankings, I showed you defensive rankings, I showed you opinions.  You still wont budge.  Anybody out there who watched and knows baseball, knows that Crede is not as good a player as Blalock.  Even if his home splits are better, so what?  That is still part of who he is as a player.  Crede sucks at home, does that mean we should just take into account that he is only the player that he is at home?  You cant ignore certain parts of a person's game and compare them, our pitchers all have different home/away splits, does that mean that they arent as good as a player? No.  Crede is not as good as Blalock, offensively OR defensively.  And he is sure as hell more healthy and better at his age than Crede was.  He has a higher ceiling and has already shown his ability.

 

Dude, you don't have to say dude, so much. Okay dude? I'm not a surfer trying to hang 10.

 

I showed you the numbers and you chose to ignore them. Again, I'm not saying Crede is a much better player than Blalock, I would rate them in the same bracket of 3B. I see no point in trading a 3B for another one when it's not an upgrade. If you even leave them in the same spots in the order, what you get from Crede on the road is equal to what you would get from Blalock at home assuming he would be able to hit at our home. You're just trading away more HR's and RBI's in one park for RBI's & HR's on the road.

[southsideirish71]

Look at the balance in the lineup if Blalock is added to it.

 

Lefties

 

Blalock

Thome

AJ

Pods

 

Righties

 

Uribe

Gooch

Kong

Dye

Anderson

 

If I remember correctly we had a hard time hitting righties, especially ones with great sliders. This move plus moves already made can help correct this.

 

Pods

Uribe

Thome

Kong

Dye

AJ

Gooch

Blalock

Anderson

 

 

You can get a nice lefty/righty split through the lineup. Gives the sox balance and protection against late inning specialists.

Edited December 15, 2005 by southsideirish71

[TheKillerB's]

Blalock >>> Crede

 

Final Answer.