Crede and Garland to Texas?

[SSH2005]

I'm pretty sure Crede was the 9 hole hitter until the last month or so of the season.

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http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6411/s...dir1_.oMaaFCLcF

 

Batting 1st: 2 AB

Batting 2nd: 1 AB

Batting 5th: 5 AB

Batting 6th: 11 AB

Batting 7th: 58 AB

Batting 8th: 253 AB

Batting 9th: 102 AB

 

Uribe mostly batted 9th if you recall.

Edited December 15, 2005 by SSH2005

[southsideirish71]

But I'm saying, you put Crede in the 3-4-5 hole like Blalock is and you have the same numbers as Blalock. There is not much of a difference at all. And I'm  not say Crede would be a .300 hitter, but I'm saying around .270-.280. And protection does affect a hitter.

 

 

Credes problem with hitting .270 or higher has nothing to do with his position in the batting order. It has a lot to do with his hitting the ball making contact, but straight up. Now if they would move the fences directly above the infield, Crede jacks 90 homers next year.

Edited December 15, 2005 by southsideirish71

[AnthraxFan93]

Cleveland has a pretty good staff. The Tigers have 2 good pitchers. Royals have like 1.

 

Seattle doesn't have a great staff. Oakland does, but Harden was injured for more than half the year. The Angels had Colon and that's it.

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Sorry you are right Seattle staff does suck, but their ballpark helps them out a ton..so its a push..

 

Angles only have Colon? Washburn Santana and that bullpen..Forgetting something are we?

 

Oak.. I didn't know one pitcher makes a staff.. Damn How is it the Cubs are not in the playoffs is beyond me?

[AnthraxFan93]

Credes problem with hitting .270 or higher has nothing to do with his position in the batting order.  It has a lot to do with his hitting the ball on the button, but straight up.  Now if they would move the fences directly above the infield, Crede jacks 90 homers next year.

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Dude stop Im crying over here from laughing so hard.. How many times last year did we hear hawk go.. Crede pops up?!?!?!

[Dick Allen]

Considering Crede hit .333 batting 9th, .241 batting 8th, and .155 batting 7th, the last thing you would want to do is have him hit 3,4 or 5.

[RockRaines]

Dude stop Im crying over here from laughing so hard.. How many times last year did we hear hawk go.. Crede pops up?!?!?!

He a freakin MVP candidate in this thread.

[nitetrain8601]

Yeah you are right, Cleveland and Detroit have better staffs for sure.  Why the hell did the Angels even make it to the ALCS anyway, they suck!!!

 

Since you're going to be such a smartass, don't expect arguments. It's obvious you can't argue. All you bring up is total stats.

 

Joe Crede:

Year Ag Tm Lg PA Outs RC RC/27 OWP BA *lgBA OBP *lgOBP SLG *lgSLG OPS *lgOPS*OPS+ psOPS SB%

2005 27 CHW AL 471 337 57 4.57 | .252 .272| .303 .335| .454 .431| .756 .766| 96 50%

 

Hank Blalock:

2005 24 TEX AL 705 497 88 4.78 | .263 .273| .318 .336| .431 .433| .749 .769| 94 100%

[AnthraxFan93]

He a freakin MVP candidate in this thread.

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No s***, hitting in the playoffs does not make you a great player in the regular season.. See JOsh Beckett.

 

I love crede and what he brings..but to get a player like Blalock..I don't think you can pass him up. Plus another LH power bat in the lineup could not hurt as well.

[nitetrain8601]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6411/s...dir1_.oMaaFCLcF

 

Batting 1st:  2 AB 

Batting 2nd:  1 AB

Batting 5th:  5 AB

Batting 6th:  11 AB

Batting 7th:  58 AB

Batting 8th:  253 AB

Batting 9th:  102 AB

 

Uribe mostly batted 9th if you recall.

 

Sorry, he had the protection of Juan Uribe and Aaron Rowand/Aj Pierzynski. That's hell of protection.

[southsideirish71]

Dude stop Im crying over here from laughing so hard.. How many times last year did we hear hawk go.. Crede pops up?!?!?!

 

 

We have had people dedicate their username to this. We have an Ihatecrede and a credepopsup

[Dick Allen]

Sorry, he had the protection of Juan Uribe and Aaron Rowand/Aj Pierzynski. That's hell of protection.

Your protection argument is total BS. The higher up in the order he hit, the worse he hit. Its not like Pods provided much protection for him when he hit ninth. He isn't exactly a guy who can drive runs home.

[RockRaines]

Officially the most one-sided thread of the year.

[Dick Allen]

Officially the most one-sided thread of the year.

And were not even taking into account the issue with his back. The White Sox are obviously very concerned.

[nitetrain8601]

Since you're going to be such a smartass, don't expect arguments. It's obvious you can't argue. All you bring up is total stats.

 

Joe Crede:

Year Ag Tm  Lg  PA  Outs  RC  RC/27  OWP    BA *lgBA  OBP *lgOBP  SLG *lgSLG  OPS *lgOPS*OPS+ psOPS  SB%

2005 27 CHW AL  471  337  57  4.57      | .252  .272| .303  .335| .454  .431| .756  .766|  96        50%

 

Hank Blalock:

2005 24 TEX AL  705  497  88  4.78      | .263  .273| .318  .336| .431  .433| .749  .769|  94      100%

 

I guess no one wants to argue these stats because it makes Crede as good as Blalock which is what I've been saying all along.

 

Here's the glossary just in case people want to play dumb.

    * Year - Year in which the season occurred

    * Ag - Player age on July 1st of that year.

    * Tm - Team they played for (see Team ID's)

    * Lg - League they played in (AL- American League, NL- National League)

    * PA - Approximate Plate Appearances - AB + BB + HBP + SF + SH

    * Outs - (AB - H + CS + GIDP + SH + SF)

    * RC - Runs Created - A runs estimator created by Bill James. A runs estimator attempts to quantify the entire contribution of a player's statistics to a team's total runs scored. It typically involves some positive value for things like hits, walks, steals, home runs, etc. and negative values for outs, caught stealing and GIDP. There are 24 different versions of RC depending on the stats you have and I am using the most basic here. (H + BB) * (TB)/ (PA)

    * RC/27 - Runs Created per 27 outs - This is the number of runs a team of each player would score given their stats. RC * 27 / # of outs made by the player

    * OWP - Offensive Winning Percentage - The winning percentage a team of only this player would have given an average defense.

    * BA and lgBA - Batting average and the league's batting (pitchers removed) average with the same home field.

    * OBP and lgOBP - On-base percentage and the league's on-base percentage (pitchers removed) with the same home field.

    * SLG and lgSLG - Slugging percentage and the league's Slugging percentage (pitchers removed) with the same home field.

    * OPS and lgOPS - On-base percentage + Slugging and the league's on-base + slugging percentage (pitchers removed) with the same home field. This is a very good rough guide to a player's ability to get on base and also drive runners in. High OPS means lots of runs for the team.

    * OPS+ - Adjusted OPS, see below. Essentially OPS normalized to the league. Think of it as a rate above the league average expressed as a percentage.

    * psOPS - The OPS of a league average player of the same position as the player with the same home field (currently being developed).

    * SB% - Stolen Base Percentage SB/(SB+CS)

Edited December 15, 2005 by nitetrain8601

[ZoomSlowik]

But I'm saying, you put Crede in the 3-4-5 hole like Blalock is and you have the same numbers as Blalock. There is not much of a difference at all. And I'm  not say Crede would be a .300 hitter, but I'm saying around .270-.280. And protection does affect a hitter.

 

No, you don't. Crede has to really get hot to get over .260 and about 22 homers. Blalock hit .263 with 25 homers in a down year. Even in Texas hitting in front of Teixeira (I'm not even sure how often that happened to be honest), Crede is not suddenly going to hit .300 or hit 30 homers like Blalock has done. Who hits behind him is not going to have that big an impact unless it's someone like Bonds or Pujols that absolutely scares the s*** out of the opposition. Noboby on the Sox or the Rangers really falls into that category, with the possible exception of a healthy Thome (Teixeira is close, give him another year or two like this last one). In a similar park, Blalock probably is slightly better than Crede. Hell, according to ESPN's park factors, US Cellular was the best HR park in the league this year and was about average in the other categories, and Crede couldn't do much there. Plus the park factors are partially dependent on the team that plays there. Considering that the Rangers have a pretty potent offense and the Sox didn't, that's an issue. I'm fairly sure that Blalock can hit at least .275 at the Cell and up his road average to at least .250 by dropping some games in those unfavorable parks, with little to no effect to his power numbers.

 

The other issue is that that's only part of the deal. Wilkerson is a solid CF that will be pretty productive now that he's out of Washington, and it sounds like we'd get one of their top pitching prospects on top of that. If it were just Crede for Blalock or Crede/Garland for Blalock and one of the two other pieces, I wouldn't be too happy. But frankly since Crede and Blalock is about a draw for us at worst, it comes down to Garland for Wilkerson and a top prospect. I can live with that.

[fathom]

Plain and simple... Hank Blalock is better than Joe Crede.

[nitetrain8601]

No, you don't. Crede has to really get hot to get over .260 and about 22 homers. Blalock hit .263 with 25 homers in a down year. Even in Texas hitting in front of Teixeira (I'm not even sure how often that happened to be honest), Crede is not suddenly going to hit .300 or hit 30 homers like Blalock has done. Who hits behind him is not going to have that big an impact unless it's someone like Bonds or Pujols that absolutely scares the s*** out of the opposition. Noboby on the Sox or the Rangers really falls into that category, with the possible exception of a healthy Thome (Teixeira is close, give him another year or two like this last one). In a similar park, Blalock probably is slightly better than Crede. Hell, according to ESPN's park factors, US Cellular was the best HR park in the league this year and was about average in the other categories, and Crede couldn't do much there. Plus the park factors are partially dependent on the team that plays there. Considering that the Rangers have a pretty potent offense and the Sox didn't, that's an issue. I'm fairly sure that Blalock can hit at least .275 at the Cell and up his road average to at least .250 by dropping some games in those unfavorable parks, with little to no effect to his power numbers.

 

The other issue is that that's only part of the deal. Wilkerson is a solid CF that will be pretty productive now that he's out of Washington, and it sounds like we'd get one of their top pitching prospects on top of that. If it were just Crede for Blalock or Crede/Garland for Blalock and one of the two other pieces, I wouldn't be too happy. But frankly since Crede and Blalock is about a draw for us at worst, it comes down to Garland for Wilkerson and a top prospect. I can live with that.

 

Look at the stats I provided above and it has the stats with an adjusted park factor.

[SSH2005]

I guess no one wants to argue these stats because it makes Crede as good as Blalock which is what I've been saying all along.

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How about these simpler stats?

 

Crede's career stats: .255 AVG, .303 OBP, .439 SLG, .743 OPS

Blalock's career stats: .274 AVG, .338 OBP, .471 SLG, .809 OPS

 

Keep in mind that both players have played in hitter's parks for their entire careers.

Edited December 15, 2005 by SSH2005

[RockRaines]

Plain and simple... Hank Blalock is better than Joe Crede.

YUP, that is the plain and simple truth. Offensively, defensively, age, contract, health. s*** even batting stance, he is better.

[Chisoxrd5]

Easiest way to answer this thread. Lets say hypothetically that Blalock and Crede have the same exact stats. Identical in every way. Blalock's value is higher because of his Lefthanded bat. It's not even close, anytime you can get LH power from the 3B spot it is a huge advantage over most teams in the league.

[RockRaines]

Easiest way to answer this thread. Lets say hypothetically that Blalock and Crede have the same exact stats. Identical in every way. Blalock's value is higher because of his Lefthanded bat. It's not even close, anytime you can get LH power from the 3B spot it is a huge advantage over most teams in the league.

And he is younger, led the league defensively this year, has a GREAT contract, and is healthier.

[SSH2005]

Plain and simple... Hank Blalock is better than Joe Crede.

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[nitetrain8601]

How about these simpler stats?

 

Crede's career stats:  .255 AVG, .303 OBP, .439 SLG, .743 OPS

Blalock's career stats:  .274 AVG, .338 OBP, .471 SLG, .809 OPS

 

Keep in mind that both players have played in hitter's parks for their entire careers.

 

Look at the park adjusted stats. They're the same player.

[Dick Allen]

Blalock is only 3 months older than Jerry Owens and he has 89 career homers.

[SSH2005]

Look at the park adjusted stats. They're the same player.

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Not quite. Those stats you posted still show that Blalock is better.