Crede and Garland to Texas?

[Guest JimH]

Check out PHT-Keep Crede Thread-wow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

to borrow a quickism: unreal

[VAfan]

I have no objection with merging my point in this thread.

 

But for those of you who criticize my points, back it up with real analysis, or shut up.

 

Blalock absolutely sucked on the road. Joe Crede, on the other hand, is weighed down by streaks of horrible performance.

 

April 79 12 24 6 0 2 9 5 3 9 0 0 .304 .368 .456 .824

May 84 8 13 2 0 3 9 5 2 17 0 1 .155 .211 .286 .496

June 80 11 22 3 0 6 17 5 2 10 1 0 .275 .333 .538 .871

July 69 10 21 5 0 4 12 4 0 11 0 0 .304 .342 .551 .893

August 58 2 6 1 0 1 1 2 1 10 0 0 .103 .148 .172 .320

September 58 11 22 4 0 6 13 4 0 8 0 0 .379 .419 .759 1.178

 

In 3 months of the year, Crede is vastly superior, offensively, to Hank Blalock, whose monthly splits are here:

 

April 98 13 26 7 0 4 13 14 0 18 1 0 .265 .357 .459 .816

May 105 15 32 6 0 5 16 6 0 30 0 0 .305 .342 .505 .847

June 108 15 31 5 0 6 19 10 1 20 0 0 .287 .353 .500 .853

July 114 17 28 4 0 4 14 9 1 25 0 0 .246 .306 .386 .692

August 115 11 30 3 0 4 16 4 0 15 0 0 .261 .283 .391 .675

September 101 8 21 8 0 2 12 7 1 24 0 0 .208 .259 .347 .605

 

Blalock wins the two months in which Crede is off the charts bad, and I would rate April a tie.

 

Now make the case that you'd rather have the second guy, even though the first guy was probably our postseason MVP.

 

To me, streaky hitting is something that can be ironed out, and I think Joe Crede is poised to do that. If Crede's funks even turned into the .650 OPS that Blalock shows, he would already be among the 5 or 6 best offensive 3Bs in baseball.

 

And even with Scott Boras as his agent, he would be hard pressed to turn down roughly Blalock's contract if offered to him as a 3-4 year deal.

[nitetrain8601]

Blalock 2004:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

Pre All Star 86 353 58 107 22 2 23 68 33 80 0 1 .303 .369 .572 .941

Post All-Star 73 271 49 65 16 1 9 42 42 69 2 1 .240 .338 .406 .743

 

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

Home 80 315 63 98 20 2 16 63 41 76 2 2 .311 .386 .540 .926

Away 79 309 44 74 18 1 16 47 34 73 0 0 .239 .323 .460 .782

 

Blalock 2003:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

Home 70 275 50 94 19 1 18 53 27 44 2 2 .342 .399 .615 1.014

Away 73 292 39 76 14 2 11 37 17 53 0 1 .260 .301 .435 .736

 

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

Pre All Star 81 313 50 101 19 1 14 48 26 53 0 2 .323 .375 .524 .899

Post All-Star 62 254 39 69 14 2 15 42 18 44 2 1 .272 .319 .520 .839

 

I'd think it's pretty accurate to say that Blalock is not a 2nd half hitter, nor is he a good hitter outside of his ballpark.

Edited December 15, 2005 by nitetrain8601

[southsider2k5]

I have no objection with merging my point in this thread. 

 

But for those of you who criticize my points, back it up with real analysis, or shut up. 

 

Blalock absolutely sucked on the road.  Joe Crede, on the other hand, is weighed down by streaks of horrible performance. 

 

April  79 12 24 6 0 2 9 5 3 9 0 0 .304 .368 .456 .824

May  84 8 13 2 0 3 9 5 2 17 0 1 .155 .211 .286 .496

June  80 11 22 3 0 6 17 5 2 10 1 0 .275 .333 .538 .871

July  69 10 21 5 0 4 12 4 0 11 0 0 .304 .342 .551 .893

August  58 2 6 1 0 1 1 2 1 10 0 0 .103 .148 .172 .320

September  58 11 22 4 0 6 13 4 0 8 0 0 .379 .419 .759 1.178

 

In 3 months of the year, Crede is vastly superior, offensively, to Hank Blalock, whose monthly splits are here:

 

April  98 13 26 7 0 4 13 14 0 18 1 0 .265 .357 .459 .816

May  105 15 32 6 0 5 16 6 0 30 0 0 .305 .342 .505 .847

June  108 15 31 5 0 6 19 10 1 20 0 0 .287 .353 .500 .853

July  114 17 28 4 0 4 14 9 1 25 0 0 .246 .306 .386 .692

August  115 11 30 3 0 4 16 4 0 15 0 0 .261 .283 .391 .675

September  101 8 21 8 0 2 12 7 1 24 0 0 .208 .259 .347 .605

 

Blalock wins the two months in which Crede is off the charts bad, and I would rate April a tie. 

 

Now make the case that you'd rather have the second guy, even though the first guy was probably our postseason MVP.

 

To me, streaky hitting is something that can be ironed out, and I think Joe Crede is poised to do that.  If Crede's funks even turned into the .650 OPS that Blalock shows, he would already be among the 5 or 6 best offensive 3Bs in baseball. 

 

And even with Scott Boras as his agent, he would be hard pressed to turn down roughly Blalock's contract if offered to him as a 3-4 year deal.

 

Why don't you leave the orders to shut up to the mods and admins, k?

[TheKillerB's]

Did Blalock on the road hit better than Crede on the road?

 

Home AVG's:

Blalock - .297

Crede - .235

 

Away AVG's:

Blalock - .231

Crede - .269

 

Personally, I'd rather have a hitter hit better at the Cell than on the road.

[heirdog]

Home AVG's:

Blalock - .297

Crede - .235

 

Away AVG's:

Blalock - .231

Crede - .269

 

Personally, I'd rather have a hitter hit better at the Cell than on the road.

 

What are Blalock's splits at the cell? That would be more telling than "home" since if he were traded, "home" would be the cell.

[nitetrain8601]

Home AVG's:

Blalock - .297

Crede - .235

 

Away AVG's:

Blalock - .231

Crede - .269

 

Personally, I'd rather have a hitter hit better at the Cell than on the road.

 

I would too until I see that the player is just a first-half player. Look, I have no problem trading Crede in a package anywhere, but it better be for someone better than Hank Blalock.

[nitetrain8601]

What are Blalock's splits at the cell?  That would be more telling than "home" since if he were traded, "home" would be the cell.

 

 

2003:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

U.S. Cellular Field 4 14 2 3 0 0 2 3 0 1 0 0 .214 .214 .643 .857

 

2004:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

U.S. Cellular Field 3 11 0 2 1 0 0 0 2 3 0 0 .182 .308 .273 .580

 

2005:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

U.S. Cellular Field 3 12 1 5 1 0 0 1 1 5 0 0 .417 .462 .500 .962

 

So far, he's had one really good year at the Cell and two piss poor ones.

Edited December 15, 2005 by nitetrain8601

[ZoomSlowik]

In my book Crede and Blalock is a draw at best, with a slight lean toward Blalock. Both are very good defensively but occasionally struggle at the plate. Blalock has had a much bigger impact at the plate though, albiet some of it could be attributed to the park and the lineup (not entirely however). Crede might break out, but Blalock has produced before. Sometimes I think the splits think is a bit overrated. Okay, he hits better at home than he does away. So do a lot of guys. Mark Teixeira hits a lot better at Texas than at home, would we pass on him too? He probably wouldn't put up his home numbers here, but he wouldn't neccesarily drop to his road numbers, as our place is still a fairly good hitters park (plus he'd rop several games at the horrid Safeco Field and the Coliseum). Blalock is a very good defensive 3B, and he had two very good years before this down season last year. He might not produce like he did the last few years, but I'd still say he easily hits .260 with 25 homers and 80 RBI. Crede might beat that, but we'd also have Blalock under our control a lot longer.

 

Wilkerson would be a very good addition in the deal. Ignore his numbers from last season. The new park in DC hugely favors the pitchers, which explains a lot of the power drop. His batting average isn't stellar, but he could easily put up a .350 on base with 20 homers, maybe more. He's a very solid player who'd definitely be an upgrade at the plate over Rowand, although the defense might be an issue.

 

I'd say it'd be about a push if it's just Blalock and Wilkerson, so it'd depend on the prospect. If we got Danks or Diamond, it'd be a slam dunk trade. I'm not overly thrilled about it right now however, so I'd really have to wait and see.

[Guest JimH]

To me, streaky hitting is something that can be ironed out, and I think Joe Crede is poised to do that.  If Crede's funks even turned into the .650 OPS that Blalock shows, he would already be among the 5 or 6 best offensive 3Bs in baseball. 

 

And even with Scott Boras as his agent, he would be hard pressed to turn down roughly Blalock's contract if offered to him as a 3-4 year deal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK, I deleted all the stats and the Decree of Silencio, and just quoted the last part.

 

Crede has been a streaky hitter his whole career, he has a bad back, that will likely not help him in his consistency battle. Just saying.

 

You are speculating about contract situations re: Boras with absolutely no basis in history, fact, or logic. Crede is their only Boras client, they don't draft them or trade for them unless it's a stop gap guy they intend to let go anyway.

 

They drafted Josh Fields for a reason, it gives them a backup plan. They traded for Mackowiak for a reason, a backup plan.

 

So you can throw the comparison stats out the window, there is much more to the equation than stats in this case. Think about it.

[nitetrain8601]

OK, I deleted all the stats and the Decree of Silencio, and just quoted the last part.

 

Crede has been a streaky hitter his whole career, he has a bad back, that will likely not help him in his consistency battle.  Just saying.

 

You are speculating about contract situations re: Boras with absolutely no basis in history, fact, or logic.  Crede is their only Boras client, they don't draft them or trade for them unless it's a stop gap guy they intend to let go anyway.

 

They drafted Josh Fields for a reason, it gives them a backup plan.  They traded for Mackowiak for a reason, a backup plan.

 

So you can throw the comparison stats out the window, there is much more to the equation than stats in this case.  Think about it.

 

Yeah and since Crede isn't a FA after this upcoming year, it would just make more sense to ride out Crede and if they are not satisfied with his production or don't want to pay him, Fields should be ready in time and they would get picks for Crede. I'm all for upgrading at 3B. Hank Blalock is not an upgrade, however. It's like trading in your black Lexus for a Silver one. All the same parts, just a different color. Also, Crede got streaky when he first changed his batting stance. Now he's just using the one he had when he first came up and so far it's worked big time.

Edited December 15, 2005 by nitetrain8601

[ZoomSlowik]

2003:

      G  AB  R  H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  K  SB  CS  AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS 

U.S. Cellular Field    4  14  2  3  0  0  2  3  0  1  0  0  .214  .214  .643  .857 

 

2004:

      G  AB  R  H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  K  SB  CS  AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS 

U.S. Cellular Field    3  11  0  2  1  0  0  0  2  3  0  0  .182  .308  .273  .580

 

2005:

      G  AB  R  H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  K  SB  CS  AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS 

U.S. Cellular Field    3  12  1  5  1  0  0  1  1  5  0  0  .417  .462  .500  .962

 

So far, he's had one really good year at the Cell and two piss poor ones.

 

10 games is really not a good indicator. He'd be a bit of a wildcard at the Cell. I don't think he'd be quite as bad as his road splits, but he also obviously wouldn't be as good as his home splits.

[Felix]

Sometimes I think the splits think is a bit overrated. Okay, he hits better at home than he does away. So do a lot of guys.

The thing with Blalock is that at home, his numbers are good. On the road, his numbers are worse than Scott Podsednik.

Most players have a downgrade in their stats when away from home, but its not as severe as Blalocks. He hits with a .150 OPS lower (I just pulled that number out of my ass, so sorry if its not completely accurate) when on the road than at home, and when your home ballpark is the biggest hitters park in the league, teams should definitely worry about what he'll be like when not hitting there 81 games a year, and from all signs, it doesn't look good.

[nitetrain8601]

The thing with Blalock is that at home, his numbers are good.  On the road, his numbers are worse than Scott Podsednik.

Most players have a downgrade in their stats when away from home, but its not as severe as Blalocks.  He hits with a .150 OPS lower (I just pulled that number out of my ass, so sorry if its not completely accurate) when on the road than at home, and when your home ballpark is the biggest hitters park in the league, teams should definitely worry about what he'll be like when not hitting there 81 games a year, and from all signs, it doesn't look good.

 

Exacto.

[Guest JimH]

Yeah and since Crede isn't a FA after this upcoming year, it would just make more sense to ride out Crede and if they are not satisfied with his production or don't want to pay him, Fields should be ready in time and they would get picks for Crede. I'm all for upgrading at 3B. Hank Blalock is not an upgrade, however. It's like trading in your black Lexus for a Silver one. All the same parts, just a different color. Also, Crede got streaky when he first changed his batting stance. Now he's just using the one he had when he first came up and so far it's worked big time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well they might very well do as you suggest.

 

I think Blalock will be the better ballplayer in 2006 and moving forward and I think it would be a good idea to acquire him, but it's all subjective. There are so many factors we don't know.

[quickman]

Well they might very well do as you suggest.

 

I think Blalock will be the better ballplayer in 2006 and moving forward and I think it would be a good idea to acquire him, but it's all subjective.  There are so many factors we don't know.

 

 

The biggest factor, (the very biggest) is JR won't deal with Boras. He simply won't. therefore Crede would need to switch agents or he will be dealt. Save this email, it may take another year, the sox will not deal with Boras. If you love Crede send him an email and tell him to get another agent.

[Dick Allen]

I find all this talk about Blalock's splits amusing considering the clamouring for the returns of Konerko and Thomas. Konerko had a pretty wide split this year, Thomas had huge differences in home and away numbers for several years.

[Guest JimH]

The biggest factor, (the very biggest) is JR won't deal with Boras. He simply won't. therefore Crede would need to switch agents or he will be dealt. Save this email, it may take another year, the sox will not deal with Boras. If you love Crede send him an email and tell him to get another agent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Watch what happens now ...

 

"But , But what if, But maybe..."

 

They don't draft Boras clients, they don't chase Boras clients in free agency, and they don't trade for Boras clients.

 

Yes, I think an agent change will be the only thing that might keep Crede in Chicago long term.

 

See: Juan Uribe

[quickman]

Last year on the Radio in an interview JR was asked why he won't go after Boras clients, he said" I don't work with liars" I think that should sum up the whole Crede issue. BYE BYE, maybe not this year, but next year for sure.

[RockRaines]

Yeah and since Crede isn't a FA after this upcoming year, it would just make more sense to ride out Crede and if they are not satisfied with his production or don't want to pay him, Fields should be ready in time and they would get picks for Crede. I'm all for upgrading at 3B. Hank Blalock is not an upgrade, however. It's like trading in your black Lexus for a Silver one. All the same parts, just a different color. Also, Crede got streaky when he first changed his batting stance. Now he's just using the one he had when he first came up and so far it's worked big time.

hahahaha. Hmm where should I start.

 

Ride out Crede and wait for a player who struggles in the minors at the position or trade Crede whilee we still have him for somone we would have longer and cheaper?

 

Blalock is a better player-offensively, and this year, defensively, serious, stop with that.

 

Its like trading in a 2 year leased lexus for a different one, for longer lease period, for less money, and less chance of maintenance.

[Dick Allen]

Last year on the Radio in an interview JR was asked why he won't go after Boras clients, he said" I don't work with liars" I think that should sum up the whole Crede issue. BYE BYE, maybe not this year, but next year for sure.

Joe had a great postseason, but lets face it, for the 162 game season he's been pretty mediocre. He's also had his hot streaks before to make you think he is going to break out, only to return to his mediocre form. If they can ride his high stock right now and replace him with a guy like Blalock its a no-brainer no matter who his agent is.

[nitetrain8601]

hahahaha.  Hmm where should I start.

 

Ride out Crede and wait for a player who struggles in the minors at the position or trade Crede whilee we still have him for somone we would have longer and cheaper?

 

Blalock is a better player-offensively, and this year, defensively, serious, stop with that.

 

Its like trading in a 2 year leased lexus for a different one, for longer lease period, for less money, and less chance of maintenance.

 

If you're willing to give up on Field already, then I'm glad you're not a GM. It's been proven that Blalock is nothing outside of Ameriquest and is a horrible 2nd half player. I'm willing to ride out Crede for a year especially since it took Beltre that long as well to break out. Again, I'm not against trading Crede for an upgrade, but Blalock is not an upgrade.

[bmags]

do you guys think garland will have more trade value now or in midseason?

 

i think we should trade him now because if he reverts back to his old form this season, it will be a serious blow to his value,

 

but then i have to think (terrible analogy as this is) there was a september where jon rauch was pitching filthy, and then we know he sucks. would that be too much pressure on mcarthy? No, not in myopinion i think if he has his changeup he's amazing. So...

 

anyways, your opinion?

[RockRaines]

If you're willing to give up on Field already, then I'm glad you're not a GM. It's been proven that Blalock is nothing outside of Ameriquest and is a horrible 2nd half player. I'm willing to ride out Crede for a year especially since it took Beltre that long as well to break out. Again, I'm not against trading Crede for an upgrade, but Blalock is not an upgrade.

Not an upgrade huh?

How many times has Crede been an All-star?

Has he ever surpassed 100 RBI's?

Has he even broken 80?

 

 

Career Numbers: Blalock .274 .338 .471 .809

Crede .255 .303 .454 .742

thats just offense

 

How about we throw in some comparable players based on Baseball-reference.com

 

Crede: 1.Doug DeCinces 2. Max Alvis 3. Butch Hobson

Blalock 1.Scott Rolen 2. Eric Chavez 3. Ken Keltner

 

Blalock is only 25 years old too!!! With a better contract, better agent, better future. Come on.

[elrockinMT]

Here's the exact quote...

 

It is speculated down in Dallas that the White Sox are on the verge of sending Jon Garland and Joe Crede to the Rangers for Brad Wilkerson, Hank Blalock and a major prospect.

Submitted by: Ralph Malph

4:17 PM CST, Dec 14, 2005

 

 

Do the Rangers have any prospects other than those they acquired from the Sox? I am thinking that Garland might be more apt to be going to Baltimore in trade for

Tejada.