Shut it before I tape yer mouth shut...

[Steff]

:headshake

 

http://www.tampabaylive.com/stories/2005/1...1213taped.shtml

 

 

5-year-old says bus driver taped his mouth shut during ride home

an ABC Action News report 12/13/05

 

 

 

DUNEDIN - The Gerbers drove their 5-year-old son to and from school Tuesday, and they plan to avoid the school bus for the foreseeable future. Why?

 

"Because I don't want them to duct tape my mouth again," 5-year-old Kyle Gerber explained.

 

Kyle told his parents, and later investigators, that his school bus driver placed a piece of duct tape over his mouth during the ride home from Dunedin Elementary School on Monday.

 

"We were just beside ourselves last night finding out about this. That someone in an authority position on a bus, a driver or whatnot, would do that to a young child," observed Kyle's father, Steve.

 

Kyle is the youngest of the Gerbers' three sons, and admittedly the most precocious. But his parents could not believe that a bus driver and a bus monitor would take such steps.

 

"He's a well-behaved child. Yes, he talks and he likes to find out about things and be involved with things and people. But other than that, he's just a normal 5-year-old starting kindergarten," Steve Gerber continued.

 

 

 

Kyle's parents say they want some answers.

"I would think if he was to that point [of being obnoxious], because I have been open with the bus driver and the monitor, then they would have said something to me," added Kyle's mother, Kathy.

 

The Pinellas County School District is taking the allegations very seriously. Both the driver and the bus monitor have been taken off-duty for the remainder of the year. They won't be allowed back on their route, or any route, until the completion of a criminal investigation by the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office.

 

"It does seem wildly out of character, not only for the conduct of our staff, but that our staff would actually physically intentionally harm a child that they're under the care of," offered schools spokesman Sterling Ivey.

 

School officials told Action News that the video surveillance system on the bus was not working at the time of the alleged incident.

 

The district also declined to identify the driver and the monitor, citing the active investigation.

[southsider2k5]

20 years ago this was called "disipline". now its front page news.... And we wonder why kids are spoiled rotten now adays.

 

[/old codger]

[Rex Kickass]

I don't really see the problem. It happened in my school and in my bus too.

[mr_genius]

the bus driver should have known better.

 

that being said, i bet this kid is obnoxious brat and probably deserved it.

[Mercy!]

Wow. You guys are pretty tough. Or maybe I missed the green. Gee, do you think they checked first to see if that kindergartner had any allergies or asthma?

 

I kinda doubt it has ever been normal for a driver to discipline a 5 year old without a parent’s knowledge by duct taping his mouth shut on the school bus. Yikes!

 

And yes, I actually caught the paddle from the principal in my day. But I sure as hell wasn’t 5 years old. And even then, they probably had to contact my parents first.

[Rex Kickass]

I think it also depends on how the taping was done. Was it a little piece? More for show than actually stopping the kid from talking? Or was it really really applied?

[mr_genius]

And yes, I actually caught the paddle from the principal in my day. 

 

 

how old are you?

[mr_genius]

I think it also depends on how the taping was done. Was it a little piece? More for show than actually stopping the kid from talking? Or was it really really applied?

 

i was thinking a little piece for show. if the kids mouth was wrapped tightly, with a lot of tape... that would be messed up (probably a crime).

[Steff]

how old are you?

 

 

 

:headshake

[mr_genius]

:headshake

 

 

ohhhhh easy, i was only asking cause i didn't think schools have paddled students in a while.

 

bla

[FlaSoxxJim]

ohhhhh easy, i was only asking cause i didn't think schools have paddled students in a while.

 

bla

 

You didn't go to Catholic school, did you?

[mr_genius]

You didn't go to Catholic school, did you? 

 

 

haha

 

i actually did, 12 years.

[FlaSoxxJim]

haha

 

i actually did, 12 years.

 

Me too. But I've made a full recovery.

[southsider2k5]

how old are you?

 

Old enough to know way more than you do.

[Kyyle23]

I don't really see the problem. It happened in my school and in my bus too.

 

Me too. But we both know that this s*** doesnt fly anymore. Lawyers get sicced on people like this now.

[Rex Hudler]

Damn, if I came home and told my parents that, they would have sent me to my room the rest of the night.

 

I also don't see the big deal. Granted, none of us were there to see exactly what happened and how it happened, so no one can truly say whether this was a big deal or not. But society has definitely changed.

 

A good kick in the ass used to straighten kids out. Today it's abuse.

[Queen Prawn]

When I was in 3rd grade, a teach (acutally one of my favorite all time teachers) taped a kids mouth shut and tied him to his chair. The kid's mom was a teacher's aide at our school. She thanked the teacher as after that the kid calmed down quite a bit. Now a days that is an immediate law suit (oh yeah, that happened at a Catholic grammar school).

[Iwritecode]

20 years ago this was called "disipline".  now its front page news.... And we wonder why kids are spoiled rotten now adays.

 

[/old codger]

 

I've always thought that nobody has the right to touch any of my kids in any way except me and my wife. There's no reason for anyone else to slap, hit, spank, or apply duct tape to then. If there's a problem, call me and I'll deal with it.

 

I was raised the same way. My mom raised hell more than once if another adult tried to "disipline" me. She never had a problem cracking me on the ass if I was in trouble but God help anyone else that tried it...

[Mercy!]

Damn, if I came home and told my parents that, they would have sent me to my room the rest of the night.

 

I also don't see the big deal.  Granted, none of us were there to see exactly what happened and how it happened, so no one can truly say whether this was a big deal or not.  But society has definitely changed. 

 

A good kick in the ass used to straighten kids out. Today it's abuse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I won’t get into an argument about corporal punishment with anyone. But I hope if you have any children, you’ll be the one doing the ass-kicking.

 

On a more practical level, if you seriously believe the conduct in the news article is acceptable, how do you communicate to a very young child that some kinds of physical contact with adults are unacceptable, but that there are other types they should submit to even if they might feel frightened or humiliated by it? Yuck. No thanks.

Edited December 16, 2005 by Mercy!

[Rex Hudler]

Well, I won’t get into an argument about corporal punishment with anyone.  But I hope if you have any children, you’ll be the one doing the ass-kicking.

 

On a more practical level, if you seriously believe the conduct in the news article is acceptable, how do you communicate to a very young child that some kinds of physical contact with adults are unacceptable, but that there are other types they should submit to even if they might feel frightened or humiliated by it?  Yuck.  No thanks.

 

Mercy there is no way that you, nor I, nor anyone else reading that article could get the full picture of what happened. So no, I can't say it was acceptable or unacceptable.

 

I won't get into corporal punishment and all that either, but I certainly do believe that kids need to learn to respect authority. I know this kid was only 5 and we don't know all the details. But I do believe that there are times other adults need to discipline kids, whether that be coaches, teachers or whatever. As far as who does the ass kicking (I hope you know I didn't mean that literally), I guess that depends on the situation. I don't have kids, but I believe in my heart that if I did, and my kids were in the presence of a trusted adult in a position of authority and my kids acted up, they would handle it. Of course, I'd probably handle it again at home. If discipline (I'm not talking about strictly physical) is not an option and is not backed by the parents, how will kids ever learn to respect authority? Again, not all cases are equal, so you have to trust the hands of the people you leave your kids with.

 

There is no way to make the world black and white. There will always be gray areas where people have to make judgements and we have to trust people to make judgements. Those judgements need to be critiqued on a case by case basis sometimes. No law or rule can cover every situation, nor should it.

 

I'll admit the world has changed and things aren't as simple as they used to be. But it drives me nuts that some parents are so protective that they won't let kids be kids. Kids can't cross the street. They have to wear a helmet, knee and elbow pads riding a bike, etc. Part of being a kid is wrecking a bike and skinning your knee. I just wish the world weren't the way it is in some aspects, ya know?

 

Man that was one helluva ramble. Hopefully there was a point made somewhere in there!

Edited December 16, 2005 by Rex Hudler

[Texsox]

Mmmm, mmmm mm mmm mmmmmmm mm mmmm!!

 

Mmm mm mmmmmmm mm m

[afacio]

I got my mouth taped once in school, and I had terrible allergies. If my nose was plugged up at the time I would not have been able to breathe. I also got rulered a few times, but that was a long time ago and wasn't really a big deal. It was either that or write something out 500 times on a piece of paper, which sucked too. I would NOT want to be a teacher today. A lot of parents want teachers to basically "raise" their kids for them but without the threat of discipline. It's a bad cycle in some instances.

[Mercy!]

Mercy there is no way that you, nor I, nor anyone else reading that article could get the full picture of what happened.  So no, I can't say it was acceptable or unacceptable. 

 

I won't get into corporal punishment and all that either, but I certainly do believe that kids need to learn to respect authority.  I know this kid was only 5 and we don't know all the details.  But I do believe that there are times other adults need to discipline kids, whether that be coaches, teachers or whatever.  As far as who does the ass kicking (I hope you know I didn't mean that literally), I guess that depends on the situation.  I don't have kids, but I believe in my heart that if I did, and my kids were in the presence of a trusted adult in a position of authority and my kids acted up, they would handle it.  Of course, I'd probably handle it again at home.  If discipline (I'm not talking about strictly physical) is not an option and is not backed by the parents, how will kids ever learn to respect authority?  Again, not all cases are equal, so you have to trust the hands of the people you leave your kids with.

 

There is no way to make the world black and white.  There will always be gray areas where people have to make judgements and we have to trust people to make judgements.  Those judgements need to be critiqued on a case by case basis sometimes.  No law or rule can cover every situation, nor should it. 

 

I'll admit the world has changed and things aren't as simple as they used to be.  But it drives me nuts that some parents are so protective that they won't let kids be kids.  Kids can't cross the street.  They have to wear a helmet, knee and elbow pads riding a bike, etc.  Part of being a kid is wrecking a bike and skinning your knee.  I just wish the world weren't the way it is in some aspects, ya know?

 

Man that was one helluva ramble.  Hopefully there was a point made somewhere in there!

Thanks for a thoughtful reply. I fear a long-winded response coming on. I hope you’ll bear with me.

 

I often try to do a little extra research before responding to certain types of articles. I did so in this case before replying yesterday. Bearing in mind that all these things are only alleged, and popular media often get details wrong, among the facts which concerned me and affected my assessment were:

 

--While the bus driver was administering this ad hoc punishment, the adult aide was saying, “His mom's not going to like this."

 

--The tape was removed before he got to his stop, and neither driver nor aide told the boy’s mother what they had done to him.

 

--The child had duct tape residue on his face when he got off the bus.

 

--The parents had never been contacted to discuss any behavioral problems in the months that their child had been riding the bus and attending kindergarten.

 

--A school official said that the duct taping would be a “clear violation” of school district policy.

 

--This is at least the sixth time in 14 months in which the safety or treatment of Pinellas County students has been called into question. Last year, two students were hit and killed by cars after bus drivers let them off on the wrong side of busy streets.

 

--Nothing in this case points to this being some bad-ass, out of control juvenile delinquent - fighting, cussing or throwing junk out the bus windows. In a video clip, he presents as a precocious, normal-sized little five year old who is “accused” of talking too much on the bus. Even were he some maladapted miscreant, these adults didn’t follow any kind of standard procedure for dealing with him, especially in this day and age.

 

I don’t know about this particular district, but most school bus drivers don’t have to have even a high school diploma. I don’t consider discipline in violation of school district policy, and (especially) non-standard discipline which is kept secret from parents to be in the realm of healthy adult behavior towards children in their care.

 

Okay. That’s what I felt about that particular case.

 

But my larger point was in trying to explain the conflict between allowing relative strangers access to your young child while still preparing that child for staying safe in a world where he or she can’t be expected to understand or resist boundary-crossing adult behavior.

 

I’m not at all suggesting these people were child molesters. I’m simply saying that many of us have a jaundiced view about uncritical acceptance of what we know now about the conditions which have allowed child abuse to flourish in some institutional settings, and which have often involved people such as you term “a trusted adult in a position of authority.” You said, “Again, not all cases are equal, so you have to trust the hands of the people you leave your kids with.” With what we know now, I’m afraid I just can’t agree.

 

I rue the fact that the time seems to have passed when the neighbors looked out for the conduct of everyone’s kids and tried to keep them on the straight and narrow. I know that the only thing that kept me from misbehaving in certain instances in public was the fear that nosy old missus so-and-so would squeal to my parents and get me in worse trouble. I can laugh at the chutzpah that got me paddled by the school principal (I surreptitiously pinned a note to her dress hem during an assembly calling her a “funny” name – just one of many cool things I’d pulled off) but it made me more circumspect in my behavior. Oh, if that were the worst of bad behaviors in schools today!

[sec159row2]

Me too.  But I've made a full recovery. 

 

\

full recovery???

 

that's debatable

 

[YASNY]

I was a child that his mouth taped shut, in a public school no less. I'm just stating that for the record. However, as a parent, I ran into a situation. When one of my boys was in grade school, I was told that if he acted up again he would receive corporal punishment. I proceeded to tell the principal that was not acceptable. All they had to do was call me and I would handle any situation. I was told that if they felt the situation called for immediate corporal punishment they would administer it. I then proceeded to inform the principle that if my child was given corporal punshment that I would administer corpaoral punishment to the person who took it upon theirself to assualt my child. In other words, I'd beat the hell out of whoever it was. I was told that if I took such action, that I would be thrown in jail and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I responded that may the case, but I'll still get my pound of flesh and whatever happens to me, happens. The issue never came up again.