My rant

[dmbjeff]

I was emotionally attached to the 2005 group,

 

you will be emotionally attached to the 2006 team too if they win it again

[SSH2005]

But I think we took a step back in the outfield unless something else is done.  I don't trust Brian "strikeout" Anderson to be able to hit this year off his terrible performance in September.  12 Ks in 34 ABs with no walks is not confidence- building.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you are going to call him Brian "strikeout" Anderson after a whopping career total of 34 AB's? Wow, even I don't give a player a demeaning nickname that quickly. I realize he's no Brian Giles but don't hold that against him.

Edited December 16, 2005 by SSH2005

[DBAHO]

Then we should just keep him.  If he walks in 06,  so be it.  Will take the two draft picks and move on.  I don't want to see us get fleeced in any deal involving Garland.

I still think some team out there is really going to offer a real good deal for Jon Garland. And yeah the Sox have a choice whether to keep him and take the 2 draft picks, or deal him for a real good package of prospects.

 

But you've also got to look at it from the aspect of Brandon McCarthy. B-Mac's ready to be a starter, and no doubt he will so I think if you can upgrade your talent base even more while you've got someone who flat out dominated in the 2nd half, you go for it. And if you can get a solid reliever added to the deal, well that makes it even better.

[SSH2005]

I still think some team out there is really going to offer a real good deal for Jon Garland. And yeah the Sox have a choice whether to keep him and take the 2 draft picks, or deal him for a real good package of prospects.

 

But you've also got to look at it from the aspect of Brandon McCarthy. B-Mac's ready to be a starter, and no doubt he will so I think if you can upgrade your talent base even more while you've got someone who flat out dominated in the 2nd half, you go for it. And if you can get a solid reliever added to the deal, well that makes it even better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since McCarthy is ready, I'd rather have a decent package of good prospects and/or players and no Garland for a season than have Garland for one season and a couple draft picks. I'm guessing that you agree.

[TLAK]

you will be emotionally attached to the 2006 team too if they win it again

You are right about that my freind. Right now, I'm just mad at Kenny for taking a team that we know was good enough to win the World Series and making it into a team with some major ifs.

 

IF Thome stays healthy, shakes off last season and hits like he did in years past, IF one of Anderson/Owens is really a Major Leaguer, IF Vazquez pitches better than his 89-93 record over his 8 seasons, IF they find serevicable LH and RH relievers. IF all these things break right they have a chance to be as good as the group he just broke up.

 

It just makes no sense to me. And then when I add in the prospects he gave up in return for these risks, I just shake my head.

[SSH2005]

You are right about that my freind.  Right now, I'm just mad at Kenny for taking a team that we know was good enough to win the World Series and making it into a team with some major ifs. 

 

IF Thome stays healthy, shakes off last season and hits like he did in years past, IF one of Anderson/Owens is really a Major Leaguer, IF Vazquez pitches better than his 89-93 record over his 8 seasons, IF they find serevicable LH and RH relievers.  IF all these things break right they have a chance to be as good as the group he just broke up.

 

It just makes no sense to me.  And then when I add in the prospects he gave up in return for these risks, I just shake my head.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Everett put up a .746 OPS last season. You don't think that Thome, or even Gload if Thome gets injured, can put up a .746 OPS as our DH?

 

Rowand's .736 OPS from last season is easily replaceable. All Anderson has to is play solid defense, which is supposed to be one of his talents.

 

El Duque had a 1.46 WHIP and a 5.12 ERA last season. Vazquez is a much better pitcher with much better stuff. He's also durable enough to actually make his starts, unlike El Duque.

 

Marte and Vizcaino sucked last season. Do I even need to remind you of this?

[YASNY]

IF we stand pat, we don't repeat. I believe that as much as I believe my name is Larry.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(TLAK @ Dec 16, 2005 -> 01:04 AM)

I appreciate your rant but feel you underrate the contribution the departed players made. 

 

The White Sox traded away or non-tendered 49 HR and 185 RBI from the 2005 team.  The players they added hit 16 and 88 last year.  Should Thome stay healthy and return to his career average the new guys would be at 49 and 169, plus what ever they pick up from who ever wins the Center Field derby. 

 

They traded away a combined 244 innings with a 4.43 ERA in the American League and an 18-18 record.  They picked up 216 innings, 4.42 in the National League and an 11-18 record.  The White Sox don’t have any proven arms to replace the relief pitchers so projecting the net effect on the pitching is a crap shoot.  I think the White Sox are taking a great risk here.

 

I was emotionally attached to the 2005 group, but that’s just my take and anybody else’s take on it is fine with me.  But getting past that I’m having a hard time buying into all the love being showered on Kenny Williams.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The problem with your stats is that there was not any consistency at the positions you mentioned. Do you really care that we rid ourselves of our 2 worst bullpen guys and a guy who is overpayed, did not want to be in the bullpen again this year, and could not start more than 5 innings or stay off the disabled list for the entire season? For that bunch of crap we received one of the best super subs in the game/left handed bat off the bench and one of the most durable pitchers in the game with a ton of potential. It is one thing to have proven arms and another to have proven suck ass arms. The Sox rid themselves of the proven suck ass arms and revceived a great return. How? I have no idea.

 

Their offense gets better through consistency as well as having a proven lefthanded power bat. The lineup is more balanced.

[southsider2k5]

IF we stand pat, we don't repeat.  I believe that as much as I believe my name is Larry.

 

Sure Lawrence...

[LauraJ14]

Everett put up a .746 OPS last season.  You don't think that Thome, or even Gload if Thome gets injured, can put up a .746 OPS as our DH?

 

Rowand's .736 OPS from last season is easily replaceable.  All Anderson has to is play solid defense, which is supposed to be one of his talents.

 

El Duque had a 1.46 WHIP and a 5.12 ERA last season.  Vazquez is a much better pitcher with much better stuff.  He's also durable enough to actually make his starts, unlike El Duque.

 

Marte and Vizcaino sucked last season.  Do I even need to remind you of this?

 

You guys sound like your are playing Fantasy baseball, these numbers don't look good so I can easily replace them with another player. Some of us fans want to see Rowand play the outfield every day and Garland pitch every 5 days and don't really want to see them playing on another team. I hope Brian Anderson can be a productive major league hitter next year.

The only move that I will be majorly pissed off at Kenny for is if he trades Jon Garland away. I have waited for Garland to develop into the pitcher he was lthis year and I really want to see him duplicate that in 2006 in a White Sox uniform.

[bmags]

You guys sound like your are playing Fantasy baseball,  these numbers don't look good so I can easily replace them with another player.  Some of us fans want to see Rowand play the outfield every day and Garland pitch every 5 days and don't really want to see them playing on another team.  I hope Brian Anderson can be a productive major league hitter next year.

The only move that I will be majorly pissed off at Kenny for is if he trades Jon Garland away.  I have waited for Garland to develop into the pitcher he was lthis year and I really want to see him duplicate that in 2006 in a White Sox uniform.

 

no, we are just being realistic and we want to keep winning, not end up in decades of turmoil after our shining season...we have a chance to become a dynasty with this pitching staff...what's exciting is going into this offseason, our offense COULD ONLY improve, now even our pitching did. How upset were you at how different the team looked last year, or how there is no gong when shingo comes out? I'm sure you were crying all the way to the WS victoy...just like you'll (no jinx) be doing this year

[SSH2005]

You guys sound like your are playing Fantasy baseball,  these numbers don't look good so I can easily replace them with another player.  Some of us fans want to see Rowand play the outfield every day and Garland pitch every 5 days and don't really want to see them playing on another team.  I hope Brian Anderson can be a productive major league hitter next year.

The only move that I will be majorly pissed off at Kenny for is if he trades Jon Garland away.  I have waited for Garland to develop into the pitcher he was lthis year and I really want to see him duplicate that in 2006 in a White Sox uniform.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Someone (JimH?) here had a great quote about getting attached to certain players...

 

"You should care more about the name on the front of the jersey than the name on the back."

 

Players come and go. Being a GM means that you make moves to improve your team. You don't keep certain players just because they are fan favorites. Production matters in baseball. KW has made all of these moves to IMPROVE the team so we can win another World Series. I guarantee you that if Garland truly wanted to stay with the Sox, KW would sign him and you would be able to see him pitch for us. Garland wants to test free agency and is likely going to get priced out of our plans for 2007 and beyond. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Edited December 16, 2005 by SSH2005

[YASNY]

Sure Lawrence...

 

Nope. It's Larry.

[LauraJ14]

Someone (JimH?) here had a great quote about getting attached to certain players...

 

"You should care more about the name on the front of the jersey than the name on the back."

 

Players come and go.  Being a GM means that you make moves to improve your team.  You don't keep certain players just because they are fan favorites.  Production matters in baseball.  KW has made all of these moves to IMPROVE the team so we can win another World Series.  I guarantee you that if Garland truly wanted to stay with the Sox, KW would sign him and you would be able to see him pitch for us.  Garland wants to test free agency and is likely going to get priced out of our plans for 2007 and beyond.  That's pretty much all there is to it.

 

I do care about the name that's on the front but if I am going to spend 6 months of my year watching and attending games then I am going to form attachments to players. I want to see those players more than one season and then gone. That's why I don't like the NFL anymore, too much moving around every season.

Just because someone puts on a Sox uniform doesn't mean I have to like them, ( Tony Phillips, Jaime Navarro, Albert Belle)

[SoIL]

What's more risky, standing pat or trying to improve the team? 

 

I think there was just a little bit of luck involved.  I wouldn't feel too confident going into 2006 counting on the same type of luck.

 

Our luck is almost guarenteed not to be as good. We got a lot of breaks last year. I highly doubt we win as many one run games in 06 as in 05. We certainly weren't dominate during the regular season. I'll definitely miss Rowand, and I would've liked to see El Duque go to the bullpen, but that ain't gonna happen.

I think it would've been stupid not to try and improve the team (or any team for that matter). And I think we probably have. The talent on paper does look better.

I am a little concerned about the team "chemistry". I wonder how much Everett, El Duque and especially Rowand brought to the table as far as drive and desire to win. If the team still has the "us against them" mentality and the hunger we should do very well. Hopefully Kenny has done his homework on this, and I think he probably has.

[kevin57]

Our luck is almost guarenteed not to be as good. We got a lot of breaks last year. I highly doubt we win as many one run games in 06 as in 05.  We certainly weren't dominate during the regular season. I'll definitely miss Rowand, and I would've liked to see El Duque go to the bullpen, but that ain't gonna happen.

I think it would've been stupid not to try and improve the team (or any team for that matter). And I think we probably have. The talent on paper does look better.

I am a little concerned about the team "chemistry". I wonder how much Everett, El Duque and especially Rowand brought to the table as far as drive and desire to win.  If the team still has the "us against them" mentality and the hunger we should do very well. Hopefully Kenny has done his homework on this, and I think he probably has.

 

While I agree with most of your post, 99 wins sure looks dominant to me.

[TLAK]

While I agree with most of your post, 99 wins sure looks dominant to me.

Best record in the American League by 4 games.

[bmags]

the only attitude i worry about that we picked up is vasquez...or however you spell his name, i'll have it down by spring training,

 

and thats not even because i know he has one, just that there aren't reports about it that are so positive as have been written about thome and 'bobbie' mackowiak

[sayitaintso]

There was a lot of IF'S going into the 2005 season too.

[greg775]

I don't think we'll miss Viz much.

We have good starters, I have a hunch Bobby isn't going to be our closer

all season.

I bet it winds up being committee which is fine with me.

[SoIL]

While I agree with most of your post, 99 wins sure looks dominant to me.

 

Yeah, that's probably a poor choice of words and that did cross my mind after I posted. What I meant was the Sox didn't dominate in the sense that we rarely blew the other team out. We played a lot of tight games. We seemed to sqeak by game after game and we came real close to losing first place.

99 wins, first place every day of the season and 11-1 in the post season certainly is domination. It just didn't feel like it, at least the second half of the season. The first half I was completely amazed how the Sox just kept winning. It was truly a great season. Even a magical one.

My point is we can't expect that to happen again, so changes for improvement are necessary. Identify where the team is weak and address that.

[kevin57]

Yeah, that's probably a poor choice of words and that did cross my mind after I posted. What I meant was the Sox didn't dominate in the sense that we rarely blew the other team out. We played a lot of tight games. We seemed to sqeak by game after game and we came real close to losing first place.

99 wins, first place every day of the season and 11-1 in the post season certainly is domination. It just didn't feel like it, at least the second half of the season. The first half I was completely amazed how the Sox just kept winning. It was truly a great season. Even a magical one.

My point is we can't expect that to happen again, so changes for improvement are necessary. Identify where the team is weak and address that.

 

On that we agree 100%. I don't think there were more than a handful of games in that whole schedule where I didn't need Tums, Junk Food, or Booze...or all three!