YASNY Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 07:26 AM) On the other hand, since they are all Senators, maybe the wheels will get greased and Congress and the President will get more done together. The more they do, the worse it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 08:50 AM) The more they do, the worse it is. Maybe. But there are some really important things that need to be done, and soon. Particularly on energy policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 09:14 AM) It sure makes him the most qualified to talk about the troops and how they should be handled, which is one of the MAJOR issues in the war. It will be an odd election in the sense that none of the candidates has any executive experience, so it will be interesting to see which of them is perceived to be better in budgetary matters because there isn't a one of them who has done it before. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Congress is the one who sets budgets, not the president? I thought all the president does is approve or veto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 QUOTE(lostfan @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 10:23 AM) Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Congress is the one who sets budgets, not the president? I thought all the president does is approve or veto. In the rubberstamp era, it is nothing like that. The President tells congress the budget he wants, and his congressional lapdogs jump up and do it. It has been that way forever. Yes, technically you are correct, but in practice, the President is doing the leg work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 11:28 AM) In the rubberstamp era, it is nothing like that. The President tells congress the budget he wants, and his congressional lapdogs jump up and do it. It has been that way forever. Yes, technically you are correct, but in practice, the President is doing the leg work. That's a failing of this rigid 2-party system, if you ask me. Plus, what's the point of having checks and balances if the president and both houses of Congress are controlled by the same party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 QUOTE(lostfan @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 10:44 AM) That's a failing of this rigid 2-party system, if you ask me. Plus, what's the point of having checks and balances if the president and both houses of Congress are controlled by the same party? That's a great point, however I don't see anything other than a 2 party system for a long time, maybe the rest of my lifetime. I think this because each party isn't going to want to give up people from their party to start a new one. If there's one thing both parties agree on, keeping a 2 party system might be one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 QUOTE(WilliamTell @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 12:03 PM) That's a great point, however I don't see anything other than a 2 party system for a long time, maybe the rest of my lifetime. I think this because each party isn't going to want to give up people from their party to start a new one. If there's one thing both parties agree on, keeping a 2 party system might be one of them. less people = less political power, you're right. In order for it to fix it'd mean both parties had to give up people at the same time, and unless 2 parties were splintering off at the same time from each party, they would lose influence and be dominated by the other party indefinitely. So whenever there is some kind of election form it's only to solidify the 2-party system more so that can't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I know the GOP nomination race is over, but, I found a really good article about what Ron Paul means to the Republican party. Just a solid read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Reading that about Paul just reinforces the belief that I have that American is ready for a third party consistant with small government and limited social policy. So many of those people exist, and NO ONE speaks for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 12:07 PM) Reading that about Paul just reinforces the belief that I have that American is ready for a third party consistant with small government and limited social policy. So many of those people exist, and NO ONE speaks for them. If that was true, then where are Paul's voters? I could probably package just about any collection of ideas in this country, put a candidate in a race with that set of ideas, and he'd probably pull a couple percent in most primaries. That doesn't mean there's nearly enough people who believe in that set of goals to push a 3rd party. Paul happened to have a set of ideas that crossed with a particular strain of people who were willing and able to give him a lot of money, and despite having as much or more money to spend as McCain, he was in Giuliani territory in almost every state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 To lots of people the messenger is more important than the message... Ron Paul wasn't exactly the easiest guy to vote for on the planet, and not all of his positions fell into the category I am talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 If Paul had the speaking skills and charisma of, say, Obama, he would've gotten a lot farther. He's a terrible public speaker When I first found out about him I figured he was right in principle on a lot of things but some of his methods were just crazy and over-the-top. It's not functioning efficiently? Get rid of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(lostfan @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 02:59 PM) If Paul had the speaking skills and charisma of, say, Obama, he would've gotten a lot farther. He's a terrible public speaker I agree. I've said it for a while. I think some of his ideas would resonate with the American public, but he comes off as some wackjob politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 10:01 AM) I agree. I've said it for a while. I think some of his ideas would resonate with the American public, but he comes off as some wackjob politician. Its because he IS a whack-job. Its one thing to want to take the government from point A to point Z. Its pretty stupid to understand that you cannot skip steps B through Y without blowing up the American way of life. That was my biggest problem with Ron Paul from day one. He would put America into the Great Depression to get something done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 11:33 AM) Its because he IS a whack-job. Its one thing to want to take the government from point A to point Z. Its pretty stupid to understand that you cannot skip steps B through Y without blowing up the American way of life. That was my biggest problem with Ron Paul from day one. He would put America into the Great Depression to get something done. yeah what turned me off of him is the fact that for anything he doesn't like or thinks isn't running at full efficiency, his answer to it is "get rid of it, the Constitution doesn't say we can have it anyway!" He was right in principle on a lot of things, his ways of executing those ideas were borderline insane though. This is 2008. It's romantic to think our government can return to the simpler version of itself overnight but that's not reality. He also has by far the most die-hard, fanatical supporters of any political candidate I've ever seen. Not that that's a bad thing in and of itself, far from it actually because that kind of dedication in politics is good. But they've all convinced themselves everything Paul says is gospel and infallible, even the ridiculous ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(lostfan @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 10:40 AM) yeah what turned me off of him is the fact that for anything he doesn't like or thinks isn't running at full efficiency, his answer to it is "get rid of it, the Constitution doesn't say we can have it anyway!" He was right in principle on a lot of things, his ways of executing those ideas were borderline insane though. This is 2008. It's romantic to think our government can return to the simpler version of itself overnight but that's not reality. He also has by far the most die-hard, fanatical supporters of any political candidate I've ever seen. Not that that's a bad thing in and of itself, far from it actually because that kind of dedication in politics is good. But they've all convinced themselves everything Paul says is gospel and infallible, even the ridiculous ideas. I don't know, some of the Obama stuff is getting there anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 11:46 AM) I don't know, some of the Obama stuff is getting there anymore. They even have Obama supporters beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(lostfan @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 10:51 AM) They even have Obama supporters beat. even as a strong Obama supporter, even I think Paul's guys have gone nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(lostfan @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 10:51 AM) They even have Obama supporters beat. I will say that I don't ever remember the Ron Paul supports doing as much negative stuff about other people in their own party. It was almost all pro-Paul stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Why don't they just get this over with and "survivor" Clinton's ass and vote her off the island? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 09:53 AM) even as a strong Obama supporter, even I think Paul's guys have gone nuts. There's some wackjob Obama supporters out there too. Fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 01:04 PM) There's some wackjob Obama supporters out there too. Fwiw. absolutely and without a doubt, not denying that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 12:30 PM) I will say that I don't ever remember the Ron Paul supports doing as much negative stuff about other people in their own party. It was almost all pro-Paul stuff. I think you're kind of lumping the anti-Hillary crowd who are only Obama supporters by default (like me) in with the new crowd of supporters Obama's attracting on his own. They are separate entities in and of themselves. They don't hate Hillary because they love Obama, they just hate Hillary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 McCain's first national campaign ad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Don't work for corporate America, just sit on their Board of Directors and earn the really easy money...TREE HOUSE FOODS. How much did they pay you Michelle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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