For GOP only

[HuskyCaucasian]

 

Just a short clip of Obama taking John McCain seriously out of context, since we all know how much Obama says context is important. How very hypocritical of him. Shame on you, Obama. I thought you were above that?

really? out of context? McCain said some people would say that economy has made great gains.

In my world, when you say "some people would say" it really means "i believe this, but i wont say it publicly"

[BearSox]

really? out of context? McCain said some people would say that economy has made great gains.

In my world, when you say "some people would say" it really means "i believe this, but i wont say it publicly"

yeah, but politics don't revolve around your world, and you can't just assume stuff.

[EvilMonkey]

really? out of context? McCain said some people would say that economy has made great gains.

In my world, when you say "some people would say" it really means "i believe this, but i wont say it publicly"

When you assume you make an ass out of u.

[lostfan]

Obama isn't above anything. He'll hang out with guys who obviously hate America and even led small attacks against it like Ayars, and he'll sit in a Church of an anti-American, and racist Pastor... all to try and advance his political career. I think that should show you how high his morals are.

 

Side note: I actually now think Wright is just a world class bulls***er, and has become a race bater and such so he can just get attention and money from his church. I love that someone who talks about poverty so much, and how evil the rich white Americans are, that now he has a giant mansion in a rich white tinley park neighborhood on a golf course. Oh yeah, he also has a 10 million line of credit to go with the house. His words during mass were racist and anti-american, but I think he said all that crap just to get more money and attention.

/facepalm

 

Ok, I just have to jump in here, I just couldn't let this post slide. If you don't like Obama and have reasons for it that actually matter, like you think he's too liberal or something (because he is, in fact, pretty liberal) that's fine. If you don't like one or more of his policies, because some of them aren't all that great or are just dead wrong, that's fine too. But this whole post is a microcosm of everything that's wrong with American politics. Seriously. Hyperbole, half-truths propagated and accepted as fact, fear-mongering, distractions, "you hate America" BS, all of it's there in one neat little package.

[BearSox]

/facepalm

 

Ok, I just have to jump in here, I just couldn't let this post slide. If you don't like Obama and have reasons for it that actually matter, like you think he's too liberal or something (because he is, in fact, pretty liberal) that's fine. If you don't like one or more of his policies, because some of them aren't all that great or are just dead wrong, that's fine too. But this whole post is a microcosm of everything that's wrong with American politics. Seriously. Hyperbole, half-truths propagated and accepted as fact, fear-mongering, distractions, "you hate America" BS, all of it's there in one neat little package.

So, his associations with Ayars and Wright should be ignored? We know nothing about Obama really. And his associations with these people need to be addressed.

 

Personal is as every bit as important as policy. I don't care what a president's policy is if they are some nutjob. It doesn't make a difference to me if I agree with their policy or not.

 

I have absolutely no trust in Obama, not until he can answer these questions with a somewhat believable answer. His story about Wright has changed constantly.

Edited April 19, 2008 by BearSox

[StrangeSox]

See, that's just ridiculous. His "association" with Ayers is that he sat on a board with him. That's about it.

 

No matter what answer he gives you, you won't believe it unless its "Yes, I hate America and Whitey."

[HuskyCaucasian]

See, that's just ridiculous. His "association" with Ayers is that he sat on a board with him. That's about it.

 

No matter what answer he gives you, you won't believe it unless its "Yes, I hate America and Whitey."

I work at a church and my pastor sits on a township board with other people from our township. If one man on that board is a Muslim or an atheist, is my pastor a Muslim or atheist? No.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[lostfan]

So, his associations with Ayars and Wright should be ignored? We know nothing about Obama really. And his associations with these people need to be addressed.

 

Personal is as every bit as important as policy. I don't care what a president's policy is if they are some nutjob. It doesn't make a difference to me if I agree with their policy or not.

 

I have absolutely no trust in Obama, not until he can answer these questions with a somewhat believable answer. His story about Wright has changed constantly.

I'm not going to get into the Wright thing, you can think whatever you want to think, I'm not going to try to change your mind. And I'm not criticizing your own personal views on Obama either or telling you you're wrong (this is the GOP thread, after all). But see... the Ayers thing is a non-story. It really is, I knew about it months ago before I knew much of anything about Obama and I shrugged. There really isn't much of an association there to speak of, it's about as casual as you can get, especially for a politician. Yet people are parroting this as 100% accepted fact because they heard Sean Hannity talking about it as if he donated money to an Islamic charity that he was aware helped to fund Al-Qaida. A slight exaggeration, but not by much. For an analogy - I know a girl that did 6 months in prison for fraud (or something like that) a few years ago and I still hear from her about once every year. Is it a big deal? Does it affect my character? Absolutely not. And why should it?

 

Do you hear me talking about McCain having inappropriate relationships with a lobbyist? No, you do not. Because he didn't do anything. That's the equivalent of what this Ayers thing is.

 

And that's my problem. More standing up for the truth, less slanderous BS, and less condescension towards people who just don't buy it when it's put in front of them.

[HuskyCaucasian]

yeah, but politics don't revolve around your world, and you can't just assume stuff.

Ok, i wont assume. I'll take his words at it then...

 

[mr_genius]

See, that's just ridiculous. His "association" with Ayers is that he sat on a board with him. That's about it.

 

No matter what answer he gives you, you won't believe it unless its "Yes, I hate America and Whitey."

 

Obama is pals with the guy, it's not just someone he happened to sit on an educational board with. This Ayers guy is basically an incompetent Timothy McVeigh. I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot, aka GOP candidate hanging out with some right winger domestic terrorist, you would think it was a big deal.

[EvilMonkey]

<!--quoteo(post=1616164:date=Apr 19, 2008 -> 10:29 AM:name=BearSox)-->

<!--quotec-->yeah, but politics don't revolve around your world, and you can't just assume stuff.

Ok, i wont assume. I'll take his words at it then...

Context? Hello? You already saw in the link I posted earlier how a line was taken out of context by Obama and used in his speech. Since you clamour for it whenever the messiah is quoted and sounds bad, how about providing it? His opening line in just what you posted "I think you could make an argument...". Then with a little editing at the end, "I think we are better off overall", which obviously was spoken at a different point, and possible to a different question. I guess Obama can claim to be above all this as long as he has the DNC, MoveOn.org and others do the dirty work for him. Well, except for the time he did it in the speech I linked to above.

[HuskyCaucasian]

His opening line in just what you posted "I think you could make an argument...". Then with a little editing at the end, "I think we are better off overall", which obviously was spoken at a different point, and possible to a different question.

When some says "you can make an argument" then rattles off a list of things to support it, they are making the argument that you believe that. Why would you rattle off facts that support something you dont think is the case? And facts that are WRONG! Inflation and Job Creation be two.

 

On your second point, can you prove it was "obviously" a different point? I can prove it was in context.

COOPER: It sounds like you're saying we're not better off.

MCCAIN: I think we are better off overall if you look at the entire eight-year period,

 

I am willing to concied that there is a POSSIBILITY we were better in 2004 or 2005 than we were in 2000. however, in 2008, we are worse than we were in 2000 on a total economic level due to lax economic polices and an ongoing war that has tripled the price of gas.. THerefore, we are not "better off overall if you look at the entire eight-year period"

Edited April 21, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[EvilMonkey]

When some says "you can make an argument" then rattles off a list of things to support it, they are making the argument that you believe that. Why would you rattle off facts that support something you dont think is the case? And facts that are WRONG! Inflation and Job Creation be two.

 

On your second point, can you prove it was "obviously" a different point? I can prove it was in context.

 

 

I am willing to concied that there is a POSSIBILITY we were better in 2004 or 2005 than we were in 2000. however, in 2008, we are worse than we were in 2000 on a total economic level due to lax economic polices and an ongoing war that has tripled the price of gas.. THerefore, we are not "better off overall if you look at the entire eight-year period"

Thatnks for the transcript. That is what I asked for. Straight from your video, here is what was cut, the words between 'You can make a case', and 'I think we are better off..."

But let's have some straight talk. Things are tough right now. Americans are uncertain about this housing crisis. Americans are uncertain about the economy, as we see the stock market bounce up and down, but more importantly, the economy particularly in some parts of the country, state of Michigan, Governor Romney and I campaigned, not to my success, I might add, and other parts of the country are probably better off.

 

But I think what we're trying to do to fix this economy is important. We've got to address the housing, subprime housing problem. We need to, obviously, have this package go through the Congress as quickly as possible.

 

We need to make the Bush tax cuts permanent, which I voted for twice to do so. I think we need to eliminate the alternate minimum tax that sits out there and challenges 25 million American families.

 

COOPER: It sounds like that we're not better off is what you're saying.

 

MCCAIN: Pardon me?

 

COOPER: It sounds like you're saying we're not better off.

 

And then of course it truncates his last statement, leaving off

"...if you look at the entire eight-year period, when you look at the millions of jobs that have been created, the improvement in the economy, et cetera.

 

What I'm trying to emphasize, Anderson, that we are in a very serious challenge right now, with a lot of Americans very uncertain about their future, and we've got to give them some comfort.

 

We've got to give them some stimulus. We've got to give them some tax relief. We've got to stop this outrageous squandering spending that causes us to have to borrow money from China, and we've got to get our fiscal house in order.

 

I think we went on a spending spree that, frankly, betrayed Ronald Reagan's principles about tax cuts and restraint of spending.

 

Sounds like the very same creative & selective editing that you have complained about against Obama.

[EvilMonkey]

however, in 2008, we are worse than we were in 2000 on a total economic level due to lax economic polices and an ongoing war that has tripled the price of gas.. THerefore, we are not "better off overall if you look at the entire eight-year period"

And FYI, the war is not why gas has tripled. China and India increasing their demand and usage dramatically is the culprit there. The was has played a part, but minor compared to those two.

[lostfan]

And FYI, the war is not why gas has tripled. China and India increasing their demand and usage dramatically is the culprit there. The was has played a part, but minor compared to those two.

China and India are pretty big parts of a lot of our problems right now... and there is basically nothing we can do about it atm. It sucks.

Edited April 21, 2008 by lostfan

[southsider2k5]

When some says "you can make an argument" then rattles off a list of things to support it, they are making the argument that you believe that. Why would you rattle off facts that support something you dont think is the case? And facts that are WRONG! Inflation and Job Creation be two.

 

On your second point, can you prove it was "obviously" a different point? I can prove it was in context.

 

 

I am willing to concied that there is a POSSIBILITY we were better in 2004 or 2005 than we were in 2000. however, in 2008, we are worse than we were in 2000 on a total economic level due to lax economic polices and an ongoing war that has tripled the price of gas.. THerefore, we are not "better off overall if you look at the entire eight-year period"

 

Lax economic policies is very incorrect. Out-dated is much more accurate. The problem is when Congress "fixes" the problem, they will screw it up worse than before, just like they did with Sarbines Oxley. They need to leave economic regulation alone, because they have NO IDEA what they are doing. Also the tripling of the price of gas is not someone else's fault, its our fault. We keep buying no matter what, and you can throw China and India into that if you like. Because of the narrow elasticity of gasoline it takes near zero change in supply or demand to change the price by a huge amount. Remember the gas crisis of the 1970's was caused by only a 15% net supply reduction, which quadrupled prices. With the steady demand increases, it doesn't matter who was President, prices would have increased a ton, and economic disincentives such as "windfall profit taxes" would have only encouraged less production, and would have increased prices further. Really that proposal might be one of the dumbest things I have heard come out of Obama's mouth so far this campaign, as it has historically proven as a failure, yet he is putting it out there like it is some brand new idea, and it will work.

[Cknolls]

When some says "you can make an argument" then rattles off a list of things to support it, they are making the argument that you believe that. Why would you rattle off facts that support something you dont think is the case? And facts that are WRONG! Inflation and Job Creation be two.

 

On your second point, can you prove it was "obviously" a different point? I can prove it was in context.

 

 

I am willing to concied that there is a POSSIBILITY we were better in 2004 or 2005 than we were in 2000. however, in 2008, we are worse than we were in 2000 on a total economic level due to lax economic polices and an ongoing war that has tripled the price of gas.. THerefore, we are not "better off overall if you look at the entire eight-year period"

 

 

Tripled the price of gas?

[Balta1701]

Tripled the price of gas?

According to the Energy Information Agency, the average gas price per gallon on April 14th for the U.S., Regular conventional gasoline, was $3.35. The Average price on January 22, 2001 was $1.45. So it has not fully tripled. It has only gone up by a factor of 2.3 over that time.

[HuskyCaucasian]

According to the Energy Information Agency, the average gas price per gallon on April 14th for the U.S., Regular conventional gasoline, was $3.35. The Average price on January 22, 2001 was $1.45. So it has not fully tripled. It has only gone up by a factor of 2.3 over that time.

and the price of oil has gone from $30-40 to nearly $120

[mr_genius]

and the price of oil has gone from $30-40 to nearly $120

 

total madness. energy independence is the top issue to be dealt with. too bad it won't. everyone in the Senate and House will just b**** and fight and nothing will get done.

[lostfan]

Tripled the price of gas?

I'm not an economist but I'm going to take a shot at this one and see how close I am. Not saying this is the main reason, but a contributing factor:

 

US goes into debt (byproduct of a war, reasons for doing so irrelevant at this point)

US borrows $$ from countries like China

US needs to pay off loans, puts more money into circulation

Currency devalues

Inflation

Cost of commodities goes up (throw in speculation into oil futures too)

Gas prices skyrocket, with help of other factors

Edited April 22, 2008 by lostfan

[southsider2k5]

I saw where Hillary linked Obama to Osama in a campaign commercial apparently? This primary cycle has been the perfect storm for the GOP. They came in a heaby underdog because of George Bush, they had an early winner in their primary, and sat on the sidelines while the Democrats have tried to do everything to destroy their own chances at winning in November. I just can't believe the things that have been said and done by people in their own party. All the GOP will have to do is step into void, instead of getting ugly, because the Dems did all of the dirty work for them.

 

I really hope to see Hillary win PA by double digits just to keep this quagmire going into the convention.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I saw where Hillary linked Obama to Osama in a campaign commercial apparently?

That's inaccurate. She used Osama in her closing ad in Penn. She also showed WW2, Pearl Harbor and the stock market crash. It was basically, elect me or you all may die.

[StrangeSox]

I saw where Hillary linked Obama to Osama in a campaign commercial apparently? This primary cycle has been the perfect storm for the GOP. They came in a heaby underdog because of George Bush, they had an early winner in their primary, and sat on the sidelines while the Democrats have tried to do everything to destroy their own chances at winning in November. I just can't believe the things that have been said and done by people in their own party. All the GOP will have to do is step into void, instead of getting ugly, because the Dems did all of the dirty work for them.

 

I really hope to see Hillary win PA by double digits just to keep this quagmire going into the convention.

 

They really managed to kill ANY momentum and positive feelings behind the Democratic campaign. I would not be surprised with a McCain win in November. Three months ago I would have thought that idea was crazy.

[southsider2k5]

That's inaccurate. She used Osama in her closing ad in Penn. She also showed WW2, Pearl Harbor and the stock market crash. It was basically, elect me or you all may die.

 

Even better, I love it! I am just waiting for her to take her ball and go home!

 

In all seriousness, I wonder if she would be bold enough to run as an independant or form her own party if she can't steal the primary from Obama? She seemingly has had no problems trying to sabatouge him at every step of the way, despite her having about a zero chance of winning. Why not take the next logical step and keep trying still?