Chisoxfn Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 07:55 AM) How is Joel defensively? Terrible, but he has good tools. Who knows if he'll be able to stay at 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 07:59 AM) Billingsley is the Dodgers version of Bmac for the sox last yr. Not going in any deal. Bmac would have been dealt at the trade deadline if Garland was on another team and the Sox could have worked out a deal for him, imo. Billinglsey is close to untouchable, but for the right deal (and Coletti needs pitching and in Garland he's getting a guy just entering his prime) he'd give it up. If he doesn't give up one of his 2 top prospects (Guzman/Billingsley) and than 2 more prospects (one of which should be Greg Miller or Jonathon Broxton) than I say no dice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 10:02 AM) Did I win our sig bet already? B) Until I see Garland trying out a new jersey at a press conference before ST starts, it definately aint over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Whatever happens to Jon's involvement with the team, i just feel blessed that my favorite player was a MAJOR contributor to a Chicago White Sox team that WON THE f***ING WORLD SERIES.... Good luck Jon Boy.... i'm still gonna wear that 20 on my back with pride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 04:07 PM) You make it sound like the only guys worth anything in the Dodgers system are Guzman and Billingsley. About the only team that can fit the sox request for two top pitching prospects is the Dodgers. the sox can and probably will make a deal that doesn't involve those two guys. I'm calling BS. If Arizona was able to get a five-tool, potential superstar in Chris Young for a pitcher who has been league average for the past two years, and who carries a big contract -- then we NEED to land either Billingsley or Guzman. If we don't get those two, it better be one helluva package that includes both Miller, Jackson, Broxton, and possibly another prospect. If given the choice between Billingsley and Guzman, I think I'd take Billingsley, just because we're going to need a cheap starter besides B-Mac in the next year or two. I'm also slightly worried about Guzman's 3/1 K/BB ratio (almost 130 K's); but that's me also doing a bit of nit-picking, as he was only 20 last year in AA. If a team doesn't want to give KW a knock-your-socks-off type deal right now, wait till the trade deadline. Because, I'm pretty sure Garland would be the TOP commodity at the deadline. Gosh, I'm so hoping for a Kazmir-for-Zambrano type, lopsided deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 (edited) Would anyone else be a little aprehensive about offering over 8 mil a year to guy that was complete average until this past year? Edited December 21, 2005 by WHarris1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:35 AM) Would anyone else be a little aprehensive about offering over 8 mil a year to guy that was complete average until this past year? Not for a split second. If he'd sign for 3/27 I'd do it in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:38 AM) Not for a split second. If he'd sign for 3/27 I'd do it in a heartbeat. 3/27 would be fine. 3 years would be good, 9 mil for 3 years is great. I was just saying over 8 mil becuase that is what was reportedly turned down. I am not sure how likely he would be to sign 3/27 if 3/24 was "insulting" When we start talking 4/40, hell 4/44 wouldn't be too farfetched. Numbers like that make me a little nervous. Edited December 21, 2005 by WHarris1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 (edited) I'm calling BS. If Arizona was able to get a five-tool, potential superstar in Chris Young for a pitcher who has been league average for the past two years, and who carries a big contract -- then we NEED to land either Billingsley or Guzman. If we don't get those two, it better be one helluva package that includes both Miller, Jackson, Broxton, and possibly another prospect. If given the choice between Billingsley and Guzman, I think I'd take Billingsley, just because we're going to need a cheap starter besides B-Mac in the next year or two. I'm also slightly worried about Guzman's 3/1 K/BB ratio (almost 130 K's); but that's me also doing a bit of nit-picking, as he was only 20 last year in AA. If a team doesn't want to give KW a knock-your-socks-off type deal right now, wait till the trade deadline. Because, I'm pretty sure Garland would be the TOP commodity at the deadline. Gosh, I'm so hoping for a Kazmir-for-Zambrano type, lopsided deal. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's pretty exciting, isn't it? Usually we are the ones trading prospects for proven players. Getting a couple young studs to replace Gonzalez and Haigwood would be nice. Edited December 21, 2005 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:33 AM) I'm calling BS. If Arizona was able to get a five-tool, potential superstar in Chris Young for a pitcher who has been league average for the past two years, and who carries a big contract -- then we NEED to land either Billingsley or Guzman. If we don't get those two, it better be one helluva package that includes both Miller, Jackson, Broxton, and possibly another prospect. If given the choice between Billingsley and Guzman, I think I'd take Billingsley, just because we're going to need a cheap starter besides B-Mac in the next year or two. I'm also slightly worried about Guzman's 3/1 K/BB ratio (almost 130 K's); but that's me also doing a bit of nit-picking, as he was only 20 last year in AA. If a team doesn't want to give KW a knock-your-socks-off type deal right now, wait till the trade deadline. Because, I'm pretty sure Garland would be the TOP commodity at the deadline. Gosh, I'm so hoping for a Kazmir-for-Zambrano type, lopsided deal. Which is why I think Kenny will wait for the deadline. That's when you could rip off teams for their prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 What is Brad Penny's situation? I do not follow the NL and thought he was up and down and injury prone to a degree but what is the money situation, could he go to the pen? I think Garland will be dealt and signed by that team as part of a blockbuster deal. The team that trades for him will not do so as a one year stopgap. Remember if he is traded and not resigned, they get two first round picks most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:44 AM) What is Brad Penny's situation? I do not follow the NL and thought he was up and down and injury prone to a degree but what is the money situation, could he go to the pen? I think Garland will be dealt and signed by that team as part of a blockbuster deal. The team that trades for him will not do so as a one year stopgap. Remember if he is traded and not resigned, they get two first round picks most likely. Penny will start. They still are 1 starter short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Which is why I think Kenny will wait for the deadline. That's when you could rip off teams for their prospects. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> See the Mulder deal of last year and the Vazquez deal of this past week. You can still get a good return on a quality starting pitcher before the season begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:46 AM) See the Mulder deal of last year and the Vazquez deal of this past week. You can still get a good return on a quality starting pitcher before the season begins. You will always get more value for a player before the season than in the middle of the year. It is only uncommon sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 You will always get more value for a player before the season than in the middle of the year. It is only uncommon sense. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, makes sense to me. Why would a team rather have half a season of Garland over a full season of him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 05:44 PM) Which is why I think Kenny will wait for the deadline. That's when you could rip off teams for their prospects. I know we talked about this in chat a little, but why in the hell would KW plan on trading Garland at the deadline? The ONLY way we trade Garland at the deadline is if we're out of contention. KW's putting all of his resources into the next few seasons, and if we're in a situation where Garland is traded at the deadline, this season would be a disaster. Especially after the White Flag stuff, there's no chance we trade a major contributor during the season, unless we're so far out of first that even KW and Ozzie don't think we can catch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Either get the best value now or hang on to him for the whole year. If he struggles, his value will be down mid-year. If he lights it up, why would you trade him? Especially to a contender who will likely be the one asking about him mid-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 This is kind of exciting. It's about time we start raking in the prospects. We need some new prospects to replace Gio/Haigwood and possibly a ML ready reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 QUOTE(heirdog @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 01:53 PM) Either get the best value now or hang on to him for the whole year. If he struggles, his value will be down mid-year. If he lights it up, why would you trade him? Especially to a contender who will likely be the one asking about him mid-season. Honestly, I think it's a win-win situation. In the offseason, teams will overpay to get a full season of a good/great pitcher. At the deadline, we'll know what our weaknesses are and we would be able to fill the weakness and add prospects from a team in need of some pitching that is still in contention. The ball is in KW's court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:46 AM) See the Mulder deal of last year and the Vazquez deal of this past week. You can still get a good return on a quality starting pitcher before the season begins. But you could rip off teams at the deadline. You usually only get best value in the offseason for prospects. If you have a legit Major leaguer, you're better off trying to trade him at the deadline because you would get a lot better prospects who probably aren't worth it in the deal. (E.G. Farnsworth to ATL deal, Villone to FLA deal). You also trade him at the deadline because you see you may have a glaring hole in the bullpen or somewhere else and you could always plug in McCarthy in the 5th slot. Edited December 21, 2005 by nitetrain8601 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcpweiner Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 He better be getting some good quality from this trade, or else I don't see the problem with keeping him this year (even better, in a contract year) and letting him walk away. SOMEONE on the staff is going to be injured (going two years without an injury is unheard of these days), so I think it's better to have an extra starter hanging around. I don't want to head back to the days of bringing up that week's best triple-A pitcher, just so he can get shelled and sent back down for the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 When's the last time a team traded a major contributor at the deadline when they were still in contention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 12:02 PM) When's the last time a team traded a major contributor at the deadline when they were still in contention? Nomar, kind of. EDIT: I know he didn't contribute much that season but I threw him in there cause he was just coming back and was supposed to be their guy. Edited December 21, 2005 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 When's the last time a team traded a major contributor at the deadline when they were still in contention? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Another reason why we are going to trade Garland now and not at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 One of the reasons so many teams do make trades with KW is that they know he's not afraid to give up big time players/prospects. This is one time where he needs to find another General Manager that's willing to take the chances he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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