Levine: Garland To Be Traded

[daa84]

before i go reading this thread is there anything worthwhile in here other than what bruce said? any real rumors from any newspapers or anything, or just a bunch of peoples ideas?

[hi8is]

peoples ideas

[shakes]

peoples ideas

 

peoples ideas about Dodgers trades

Edited December 21, 2005 by shakes

[Cerbaho-WG]

Prior to his injury Miller was one of the bright spots in the Dodgers system.  He has high upside and good stuff.  I don't know much about how serious his injury was (I forget what it was) but assuming his stuff is back and he's healthy he's a guy whose value is at a low but has major upside.

 

Arthroscopic shoulder surgery.

[bmags]

the only thing i worry about, is if we make this trade i still have questions in our staff...Bmac would have to be lights out like he was, contreras has to be consistent, and javier has to not be the new javier...

 

i unno...it scares me, i'd almost rather just got nothing for him and have a go at it this year...but those are just thoughts created from fear of failure, we really have to go for this

[greg775]

Trading Garland after what he did for us last year would be asinine.

We swept the World Series in 4 games; we lost one postseason game.

And we want to get rid of one of the cogs????

Ridiculous.

Pay the man some money.

[sayitaintso]

Trading Garland after what he did for us last year would be asinine.

We swept the World Series in 4 games; we lost one postseason game.

And we want to get rid of one of the cogs????

Ridiculous.

Pay the man some money.

I'm not even sure if they have the money to pay him.

[timotime]

I'm not even sure if they have the money to pay him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

we just won the f***in' world series. i'm sure we do. care to prove we can't? that's what i thought.

[aboz56]

Maybe I'm missing something, but is this the same Jon Garland who was barely a .500 pitcher prior to this past year?

 

The same one who had a nice first half, a so-so second half and then got rocked in the 3rd game of the World Series only to have us bail him out?

 

Same guy?

 

Just wondering?

 

If he wants more than 8 million a season, later California kid. We don't need you.

 

Take your .500 career elsewhere if you want huge money.

[Balta1701]

Maybe I'm missing something, but is this the same Jon Garland who was barely a .500 pitcher prior to this past year?

 

The same one who had a nice first half, a so-so second half and then got rocked in the 3rd game of the World Series only to have us bail him out?

 

Same guy?

 

Just wondering?

 

If he wants more than 8 million a season, later California kid.

Didn't part of that "Rocking" happen on a bad call on a home run which wasn't actually a home run based on the moronic ground rules at Enron field?

 

He's also 26. And a damn good sinkerball pitcher with a damn good 4 seam fastball.

[aboz56]

Didn't part of that "Rocking" happen on a bad call on a home run which wasn't actually a home run based on the moronic ground rules at Enron field?

 

He's also 26.  And a damn good sinkerball pitcher with a damn good 4 seam fastball.

He's no better than our 3rd best pitcher at this point.

 

Right now, I definitely take Buehrle and Garcia over him. And Contreras too if he can keep up his pace from last year.

 

And in a few years, I'll take McCarthy over him.

 

What team pays a 3rd/4th starter over 10 mil a season?

 

I mean besides a good first half of last year, what has the guy really done that makes people think he is worth that type of money, inflated market or no inflated market.

 

Just face it, he's really not as great as you people giving him mouth to mouth make him out to be.

[Balta1701]

He's no better than our 3rd best pitcher at this point.

 

Right now, I definitely take Buehrle and Garcia over him.  And Contreras too if he can keep up his pace from last year. 

 

And in a few years, I'll take McCarthy over him. 

 

What team pays a 3rd/4th starter over 10 mil a season?

 

I mean besides a good first half of last year, what has the guy really done that makes people think he is worth that type of money, inflated market or no inflated market.

 

Just face it, he's really not as great as you people giving him mouth to mouth make him out to be.

Right now, I would take Buehrle, McCarthy, and the Contreras of 2nd half last season (if he still exists) over Jon. That's including all things, such as Salary. I would take Garland over Garcia in a heartbeat.

[Kalapse]

we just won the f***in' world series. i'm sure we do. care to prove we can't? that's what i thought.

I can show you current payroll figures and quotes from KW and others saying that the Sox will have a payroll in the upper 80's for this year and that we are currently over budget.

 

Would that suffice?

[greg775]

f he wants more than 8 million a season, later California kid. We don't need you.

Take your .500 career elsewhere if you want huge money.

 

Says you. Not me. Pay him. How come we can keep signing Mark B to contracts and can't do the same with Jon.

Jon Garland was a STAR last year. he should be part of our team for the next 5 years minimum. Just sign him.

[qwerty]

f he wants more than 8 million a season, later California kid.  We don't need you.

Take your .500 career elsewhere if you want huge money.

 

Says you. Not me. Pay him. How come we can keep signing Mark B to contracts and can't do the same with Jon.

Jon Garland was a STAR last year. he should be part of our team for the next 5 years minimum. Just sign him.

 

Because the two our not even comparable. Basically the best answer you are gonna get regarding your question.

[Cerbaho-WG]

Would all the Garland bashers who say such ignorant bulls*** like Garland had a "so-so" second half take the time to back their s*** up? Oh wait, if they looked at Garland's second half splits, they'd see that while there was a minor drop off in production stats, he averaged barely over a hit an inning and had a 3.65 ERA. He also had a bad month in August and then bounced back to a solid September and a great start in October.

 

Hey guess what guys, Freddy Garcia had an ERA of 4.28 in the second half. Mark Buehrle had an ERA of 3.84 in the second half. Only Jose Contreras had a better second half ERA startingwise than Garland. And all of you are ready to chuck him out the boat? Why aren't you people saying the same stupid s*** about having a bad career prior to this season about Contreras?

 

Jesus f***ing Christ, open up your goddamn eyes.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Would all the Garland bashers who say such ignorant bulls*** like Garland had a "so-so" second half take the time to back their s*** up? Oh wait, if they looked at Garland's second half splits, they'd see that while there was a minor drop off in production stats, he averaged barely over a hit an inning and had a 3.65 ERA. He also had a bad month in August and then bounced back to a solid September and a great start in October.

 

Hey guess what guys, Freddy Garcia had an ERA of 4.28 in the second half. Mark Buehrle had an ERA of 3.84 in the second half. Only Jose Contreras had a better second half ERA startingwise than Garland. And all of you are ready to chuck him out the boat? Why aren't you people saying the same stupid s*** about having a bad career prior to this season about Contreras?

 

Jesus f***ing Christ, open up your goddamn eyes.

 

So true. Garland should've won 20 games last year. I'm not happy at all about possibly trading him.

[beck72]

No Hudson deal, that deal was horrendous for the A's.  You're thinking of just the Mulder deal.

Even though the players involved had bad seasons, the package for Hudson was about the same as Mulder [a top high level prospect, a MLB ready player, and a top prospect a few yrs away]

[Rowand44]

Even though the players involved had bad seasons, the package for Hudson was about the same as Mulder [a top high level prospect, a MLB ready player, and a top prospect a few yrs away]

It's a bit different though. Haren and Meyer were both solid spects but obviously Haren has been much, much better as of right now. Charles Thomas and Daric Barton aren't even close, Barton is a top prospect while Thomas never was. Cruz while having a great arm had one good year under Leo so you always have to take that into account while Calero was a damn good reliever for two years in St. Louis. So I see where your coming from but it was still a bit different right when the deal was made but right now obviously the Mulder trade has turned out much better while the Hudson trade has been horrible for the A's.

[beck72]

I think you might be in the minority.  Have you seen the market for starting pitching this off-season?  Have you seen what quality pitchers are getting?  Have you seen what bad pitchers are getting?  It's insane.  Chalk it up to Burnett's contract, the Sox proving you win championships with pitching and defense, or whatever else you want, but pitching...especially young, cheap, effective pitching...you are going to have to pay for it.

 

Look no further than a trade completed yesterday for Christ's sake.  If Adam Eaton and a bullpen arm are worth an organization's number one prospect--HANDS DOWN--an MLB-ready young arm, and another prospect or two, why are you telling me the Sox can't ask, or can't expect an organization's number one prospect in return.

 

If you trade Garland to a West Coast team, his value also increases as he has been known to want to sign on the west coast when he hits free agency.

 

Put it all together.  Kenny should expect a number one prospect in return for a guy that has finally put it all together and found himself amongst the best in baseball last year.  Garland was a f***ing all-star.  I don't care if he is in his walk year.  You find a team that will pay for a healthy, effective, cheap #2 starter.  Period.

 

I'm just not buying it.

 

What I'm saying is this--we don't know what the market is for Garland. Yet I can see [based on the asking demands of many, ie "KW should get X or no deal"] what the reaction will be if / when Garland is dealt----'KW got taken', 'he sucks', etc etc. I can hear the b****ing and moaning already. IMO, KW should be given the benefit of the doubt that he got the best deal possible, given what was available.

 

If the sox want pitching prospects [which they should] few teams will be willing to offer the best prospect they have that's close to the majors, plus another top prospect for Jon. A top position player prospect for Jon is different. [ala Reed for Garcia]. The sox could probably get a top position player more easily than young arms, as some players are locked into a position [say SS with Furcal just signed] Pitching is different. Pitching prospects can try to fill one of 11 or 12 spots for a team. And most teams need 15 guys through out the yr.

 

All teams want cheap, top quality young pitching--even the Yankees. That's why I could see the sox getting at most 2 pitchers near ready for the bigs [or one MLB arm now and someone for AAA] and a position player prospect. IIRC, the Mulder/ Hudson deals had close to this.

 

Though Mulder and Hudson had much greater success than Jon had at the time of trade, the outregeous market alone for pitching could dictate the sox getting similar deals [though by the same token, the luxury of having cheap young arms to replace the huge contracts could negate the recent "mark-up" for pitching]

[beck72]

It's a bit different though.  Haren and Meyer were both solid spects but obviously Haren has been much, much better as of right now.  Charles Thomas and Daric Barton aren't even close, Barton is a top prospect while Thomas never was.  Cruz while having a great arm had one good year under Leo so you always have to take that into account while Calero was a damn good reliever for two years in St. Louis.  So I see where your coming from but it was still a bit different right when the deal was made but right now obviously the Mulder trade has turned out much better while the Hudson trade has been horrible for the A's.

 

Both deals looked similar when they were made. But trades are judged by how the players perform. And so far the Braves are laughing now.

 

Judging on the players that were traded for Mulder and Hudson, many people are asking for >>> than what the A's got for each. Haren was projected as a #3/ #4 SP, who had some 70 IP's in the bigs; Barton as a low A guy w/o a position, yet a great bat; and 30 yr old reliever in Calero.

 

A similar deal would be Broxton; Brazoban; and a low A position player. I'm not advocating that deal. But it's realistic.

 

I'd rather the sox take a risk on a young guy w/ a lot of upside like Greg Miller than an older reliever like Brazoban, and get a #3/ #4 type SP in Justin Orenduff, along with a lower level prospect.

[SSH2005]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5185624

White Sox right-hander Jon Garland and A's left-hander Barry Zito represent possible trade options, but many in the industry suspect that Garland will be traded to the Dodgers or Angels, while the Astros might not have the type of young impact players that A's G.M. Billy Beane would want for Zito.

 

Garland, a native of southern California, is a free agent after next season. His long-term preference might be to play closer to home, and both the Dodgers or Angels are deep in prospects who would appeal to the White Sox.

Hmmm, haven't we all been saying this? A California team like the Dodgers or Angels would be willing to give up the most for Garland because they know that they would have a very good chance of re-signing him to a long-term deal (just like KW did with Freddy Garcia).

[DBAHO]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5185624

Hmmm, haven't we all been saying this?  A California team like the Dodgers or Angels would be willing to give up the most for Garland because they know that they would have a very good chance of re-signing him to a long-term deal (just like KW did with Freddy Garcia).

Didn't that get like posted already a while back?

[DBAHO]

And some news here from the L.A Times;

 

The Chicago White Sox are shopping right-hander Jon Garland, but the asking price might be too high for the Dodgers, who don't want to trade top pitching prospects.

 

Garland was a cornerstone of the White Sox's World Series championship season, posting an 18-10 record and 3.50 ERA. He made $3.4 million and is arbitration eligible, but is on the trading block because he turned down a three-year offer.

 

However, the White Sox want pitching prospects in return and Colletti is reluctant to part with top minor league starters Billingsley, Justin Orenduff and Chuck Tiffany.

[SSH2005]

Didn't that get like posted already a while back?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Possibly. I haven't read through this entire thread. The article says that it's from 19 hours ago.

 

And some news here from the L.A Times;

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, so give us Jonathan Broxton, Scott Elbert, and Joel Guzman. B)

Edited December 22, 2005 by SSH2005