Bears sending six players to Pro Bowl

[SoxFan1]

if your job is to be good against the run first and foremost, you have fulfilled your job title. great safety.

# 1 - Where does it say that a safety needs to be good against the run to be a great safety? Kwame Lassiter wasn't a great safety?

 

# 2 - If this is the case, than being good against the pass as well is a bonus...thus, you are proving our point that Brown is better than Williams.

 

You are making no sense. A safety's job is in the passing game 1st. No matter strong safety or free safety. LB's defend both run and pass. DE's are supposed to stop the run and ruch the QB. All this junk you're making up is useless.

[WHarris1]

cornerbacks are there too you know. it does not come down to the safety having to break up the pass every play.

Really? I coulda sworn they would have to break up a pass every play, every single one.

 

What do you think Roy Williams does when the other team is passing the football?

[witesoxfan]

Last I checked, even linebackers had to be decent in coverage. So why does Roy Williams not have to be? Because he broke TO's ankle?

 

Oh k

[SoxFan1]

cornerbacks are there too you know. it does not come down to the safety having to break up the pass every play.

The safety is part of the secondary. The secondary defends the pass. PERIOD.

Edited December 21, 2005 by SoxFan1

[Goober]

# 1 - Where does it say that a safety needs to be good against the run to be a great safety? Kwame Lassiter wasn't a great safety?

 

# 2 - If this is the case, than being good against the pass as well is a bonus...thus, you are proving our point that Brown is better than Williams.

 

You are making no sense. A safety's job is in the passing game 1st. No matter strong safety or free safety. LB's defend both run and pass. DE's are supposed to stop the run and ruch the QB. All this junk you're making up is useless.

i edited my last post with the word Strong in front of safety. if you are not good against the run, you are not a good strong safety. i seriously hope you can agree with this

 

ok here. we got two strong safeties. player A is better against run than player B. who would you take? player A

now player B is better against pass than player A. who would you take in this case? player B

again, for strong safety, pass is not as important as run.

 

its all specialization. pass rushing DE's and OLB's. its the same for FS and SS.

[SoxFan1]

i edited my last post with the word Strong in front of safety. if you are not good against the run, you are not a good strong safety. i seriously hope you can agree with this

 

ok here. we got two strong safeties. player A is better against run than player B. who would you take? player A

now player B is better against pass than player A. who would you take in this case? player B

again, for strong safety, pass is not as important as run.

 

its all specialization. pass rushing DE's and OLB's. its the same for FS and SS.

 

The safety is part of the secondary. The secondary defends the pass. PERIOD.

[Goober]

Last I checked, even linebackers had to be decent in coverage.  So why does Roy Williams not have to be?  Because he broke TO's ankle?

 

Oh k 

ok, find me all the strong safeties that are good in both coverage and run.

[witesoxfan]

    ok, find me all the strong safeties that are good in both coverage and run.

 

I'm not arguing that.

 

I'm arguing that a safety, no matter strong nor free, cannot be bad in coverage if he is to be considered one of the best in the league.

[SoxFan1]

    ok, find me all the strong safeties that are good in both coverage and run.

The strong/free really doesn't mean much once the play starts so lets just keep it at a broad generalization and call it safety. Off the top of my head, the list goes:

 

Rodney Harrison

Mike Brown

Ed Reed

Sean Taylor

Darren Sharper

Lawyer Milloy

Edited December 21, 2005 by SoxFan1

[Chisoxfn]

i edited my last post with the word Strong in front of safety. if you are not good against the run, you are not a good strong safety. i seriously hope you can agree with this

 

ok here. we got two strong safeties. player A is better against run than player B. who would you take? player A

now player B is better against pass than player A. who would you take in this case? player B

again, for strong safety, pass is not as important as run.

 

its all specialization. pass rushing DE's and OLB's. its the same for FS and SS.

No, I agree with this. If you play strong safety you have to be good against the run. I've never said Roy Williams can't play the run, but he's a terrible coverage safety and despite what you say, it is still important to have quality coverage skills. I'm not saying he needs to be good at man coverage, but he has to stay in his zone and be able to read the QB and make quality adjustments.

 

Most importantly he can't get overly agressive and get burned because he's the last man to beat. However a strong safety that can play man coverage from time to time is a total asset to your team, especially when they can also play the run.

 

Therefor, Roy Williams is not a great strong safety. Great players do everything they are asked of (for there position) well and Roy Williams doesn't do that. His position is involved in pass coverage and he gets a D in that category.

[SoxFan1]

No, I agree with this. If you play strong safety you have to be good against the run.  I've never said Roy Williams can't play the run, but he's a terrible coverage safety and despite what you say, it is still important to have quality coverage skills.  I'm not saying he needs to be good at man coverage, but he has to stay in his zone and be able to read the QB and make quality adjustments.

 

Most importantly he can't get overly agressive and get burned because he's the last man to beat.  However a strong safety that can play man coverage from time to time is a total asset to your team, especially when they can also play the run.

 

Therefor, Roy Williams is not a great strong safety.  Great players do everything they are asked of (for there position) well and Roy Williams doesn't do that.  His position is involved in pass coverage and he gets a D in that category.

Pretty much sums it up. The concept is quite simple. Safeties, free and strong, need to stop the pass first. That is their primary job. Williams fails to do so. Brown does not. Yes, Williams is very good against the run but his primary job is to stop the pass. Once more, he does not do so. Brown is good at both, therefore, Brown is the better safety. Neither is GREAT.

[Goober]

i'll give a comparable example. WRs. they have 2 things they can do. they can catch the ball and they can block. because a WR is not that good in blocking, makes him not great? no, he is great because he is great at what his most important job is, catching the ball. strong safety is not great because he is below average in coverage? no, he is great because he is great at what his most important job is, stopping the run. while coverage for a strong safety is more important than blocking for a WR, it is not that big of a difference. blocking is extremely underrated.

 

yes coverage would be nice, but you aren't gonna find players who do that in addition to run.

SF1, your list is right, those would be the ones good in both areas. except for brown. good might be a stretch in coverage. he is average, below good. i am not saying he is not a good safety, he is.

 

look, below average coverage skills is perfectly fine for a strong safety with excellent run skills. he is still a great strong safety. thats the truth. if he had terrible coverage skills, yeah he would not be great, too much of a risk for a big play. but below average cover skills does not stop a strong safety from being a great one.

[Chisoxfn]

Pretty much sums it up. The concept is quite simple. Safeties, free and strong, need to stop the pass first. That is their primary job. Williams fails to do so. Brown does not. Yes, Williams is very good against the run but his primary job is to stop the pass. Once more, he does not do so. Brown is good at both, therefore, Brown is the better safety. Neither is GREAT.

No no no. Tmar is right, the primary job of a strong safety is stopping the run. However I'd rate it as a 60/40 in a sense. (for a strong safety).

[WHarris1]

i'll give a comparable example. WRs. they have 2 things they can do. they can catch the ball and they can block. because a WR is not that good in blocking, makes him not great?

I'd say thats a very bad example.

 

A WR's jobs are like 90 catching/10 block

A SS is about 60 run/40 pass

 

But whatever, I'm done

Edited December 21, 2005 by WHarris1

[Jordan4life_2007]

Congrats to all 6 Bears reps on making it!

 

Like many, I feel Alex Brown and Adewale Ogunleye got hosed. I was surprised to see Tommie Harris make it. It would be easy for him to get overlooked on a loaded D like the Bears.

 

 

Adewale Ogunleye, DE, Chicago Bears

It's a head-scratcher that Chicago defensive tackle Tommie Harris got a Pro Bowl call and Ogunleye didn't. Or that Julius Peppers has underachieved this year and got a trip to Hawaii. Ogunleye had a slow start, but he has eight sacks in his last nine games, and his disruption has been a big plus for counterpart Alex Brown, who had back-to-back, two-sack games in November. What's more, Ogunleye has been huge in pivotal games down the stretch, notching six sacks in eye-opening wins over Tampa Bay, Carolina and Atlanta.

 

Couldn't agree more with this.

Edited December 22, 2005 by Jordan4life_2005

[DBAHO]

Roy Williams f***ing sucks.  Most overhyped and over-rated player in the league.  The guy can't cover s***.  He can hit and boy can he hit, but he's not a great safety. 

 

Just ask Dbaho (well if he'll ignore his homerisms).  He gets reamed in coverage all the time.  Small example was the pathetic job he did in the Washington game earlier in the year where he got burned on consecutive bombs for TD's on plays that were his responsibility.

Haha I read this at work today, made me laugh a little I gotta say.

 

I'll say this about Roy Williams. I actually wish we would move him to OLB. It's kind of a weak spot for us at the moment, and it puts him closer to the line of scrimmage, where he can make more plays.

 

Look I think Roy Williams is the best run stopping strong safety in the league, and I know a lot of people aren't going to agree with that. But no, he's not good in coverage. Jeremy Shockey beat him twice in the 4th quarter when we played the Giants earlier in the season.

 

I don't think we have really done a great job at protecting this weakness though. For our secondary, we still play a bit of cover two, and putting Williams deep, just isn't a good idea. Look at Rodney Harrison, you wouldn't call him a good cover safety. But on the Patriots, they did an excellent job at hiding this weakness, and putting him into the position to make plays. And a lot of that has to do with the different defensive schemes they run.

 

I think also with the Cowboys, FS is definitely going to be an area where we'll have to upgrade. We really do need a good covering FS in there besides Williams. Keith Davis is ok, but he's not that good. It's something we need to address.

 

Of course we could just move Williams to OLB, and have him next to Bradie James (unlucky not to make the pro bowl in my mind), Kevin Burnett and DeMarcus Ware.