Cubs after Tejada, could move Prior

[Kyyle23]

I've heard the same report, and, let me just go on record as saying the Cubs would be coming up aces in this deal.

 

but the question worth answering is this: Are you willing to eat your hat over it?

[AddisonStSox]

but the question worth answering is this: Are you willing to eat your hat over it? 

 

I have no idea whether or not the deal will get done; however, if the deal is made, I believe the Cubs would be getting the best of said deal.

[Yoda]

I haven’t read this whole thread so I’m just going to post my opinion on Hendry if he does give up Prior for Tejada, strait up.

 

Giving up Mark Prior just for Tejada is more than enough. Prior is 25 yrs. old and the injuries that he’s gone through have all been freak injuries. Colliding into an infielder and being hit by a line drive isn’t the same as Wood’s lack of good mechanics and frequent arm injuries. Just look at Prior when he was injury-free back in 03. He pitched in 30gms, went 200+ innings, had over 200k’s and gave up just 15hr’s. Those #’s certify you a CY. If he doesn’t run into any more DL stints, then he can post similar #’s next season.

 

On the other hand you have one of the best SS’s in all of baseball (he gives you both offense and defense) he is 29 yrs. old, and will receive $48 million the next four years. Yet the reason why the Orioles are looking to move Miguel is because Tejada has the desire to play for a winning organization. If he ends up in the northside of Chicago then he’s not going to be in a winning team. Not with the way that the Cubs rotation will look like. That’s where I lost some respect for Tejada. He’s being paid so why go out and say that you want out?

 

If Hendry does trade Prior, then they won’t be any different than the Cincinnati Reds. They have all that offense yet no pitching. All that wins you is 4th place in your division.

 

If the Marlins and White Sox have shown us anything the last three years is that pitching and defense wins you ballgames. With pitching being the #1 priority.

[SkokieSox]

If Bedard is going to be included, I think the Cubs need to add another piece to this puzzle. Although Prior would be great for the Orioles to attain, there is every reason for them to be high on Bedard. It's not as if he'd be a throw in. The Cubs know he is a quality pitcher with a high ceiling. I guess the same can be said for Hill, although he needs more seasoning, and is by no means a lock. I think the Cubs would have to include another quality arm.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I would balk on Bedard if I were the O's. Maybe I'd offer Markakis but I'd want to start building around Bedard, Prior, Penn, and Hill. I'd try to insist on sending back Julio or Lopez or Chen instead (not terribly likely for the latter two)

[fathom]

If the Cubs do make this trade, I think they're in the driver's seat in the division (and no one hates the Cubs more than I do). However, I don't think this trade is going to happen. BTW, Bedard is very overrated on this site.

[ZoomSlowik]

I've said that I don't really think that this deal is going to happen and that Prior alone probably won't get you Tejada. Also, Bedard is definitely more than a throw in, he's a talented young pitcher that can be a huge asset if he puts it together like he did before he got hurt. He's kind of the same type of player Garland was the last few years. However, if the deal actually does go through, I don't think it really does that much for either team.

 

The Cubs' offense would be considerably stronger, but it would be heavily right-handed and still could be a little short of elite, especially if Lee doesn't play as well as he did last year and Ramirez keeps getting hurt in the second half. The front portion would be very good with Pierre-Walker-Tejada-Lee-Ramirez, although the bottom portion with Jones-Murton-Barrett-pitcher still doesn't really provide much of a threat. Many NL lineups are built like that, however. The bigger issue is that the rotation would go from being above average and having a high ceiling to being rather poor without a whole lot of hope for change. Zambrano is a very solid pitcher, but it goes down rather rapidly from there. Maddux is definitely losing it, and he's going to end up being their #2 pitcher when he shouldn't be anymore than a #4. Bedard is in a tough position in the #3 rotation spot, unless he cashes in on his abilities like Jon did he's not a dependable mid-rotation starter. Williams is probably the #4, which is a major problem unless he pitches near the height of his capabilities. Glendon Rusch seems to be getting by on smoke and mirrors, I just can't imagine him keeping it up. And of course there's the ever-injured Wood. If he gets healthy and pitches like he did a couple of years ago, he solidifies the rotation a bit, although they'd still be pretty weak 3-5. However, we all know that's a longshot. Their rotation would be pretty weak, and their pen would still have some question marks. I couldn't see them catching the Cardinals with that pitching staff, and they'd probably finish behind either Houston or Milwaukee depending on what those teams do from here on out.

 

Baltimore has an even longer way to go since their division is stronger. The Yankees and Red Sox have much stronger lineups and more good pieces to a solid team, and the Blue Jays are getting better, albiet not good enough to win the division. Baltimore would really have some issues if the trade went through. Prior might give them a real starting pitcher for once, but if they give up Bedard there is virtually no hope for the rest of the rotation. The pen isn't a whole lot better, and their typically strong lineup also takes a huge hit. They would be left without a real middle of the order hitter, with their best threats being Brian Roberts, Melvin Mora, and Javy Lopez. They'd be a 4th place team at best, maybe struggling with the Devil Rays.

[ZoomSlowik]

If the Cubs do make this trade, I think they're in the driver's seat in the division (and no one hates the Cubs more than I do).  However, I don't think this trade is going to happen.  BTW, Bedard is very overrated on this site.

 

How do you figure that they'd be the division winner? Their rotation gets considerably weaker without Prior and you obviously don't think that Bedard a viable replacement. I don't see how you could think they're a division winner with that pitching staff that I mentioned in my previous post. Houston, Milwaukee, and St. Louis will all have better pitching staffs, and St. Louis has a pretty strong offense to go with it. I could possibly see them finishing second if Houston doesn't bolster their lineup and Roger retires, or Milwaukee doesn't have enough of a bullpen or offense if Fielder doesn't produce right away, but I can't see them getting by St. Louis when they still have the deepest rotation in the division and the trio of Pujols-Rolen (yeah, health is an issue)-Edmonds.

[fathom]

How do you figure that they'd be the division winner? Their rotation gets considerably weaker without Prior and you obviously don't think that Bedard a viable replacement. I don't see how you could think they're a division winner with that pitching staff that I mentioned in my previous post. Houston, Milwaukee, and St. Louis will all have better pitching staffs, and St. Louis has a pretty strong offense to go with it. I could possibly see them finishing second if Houston doesn't bolster their lineup and Roger retires, or Milwaukee doesn't have enough of a bullpen or offense if Fielder doesn't produce right away, but I can't see them getting by St. Louis when they still have the deepest rotation in the division and the trio of Pujols-Rolen (yeah, health is an issue)-Edmonds.

 

The Cubs bullpen is going to be much better than it was last season. As much as I dislike Pierre, he's still a much better leadoff hitter than anything they had last season. Tejada will absolutely destroy the ball at Wrigley, and it wouldn't shock me to see their 3-4-5 all hit between 35 and 40 homers. As much as I think Bedard's overrated, I've long thought that Prior's hype doesn't match his productivity. The Cubs pitching would keep them in games, but their offense would be extremely good next year.

[Balta1701]

The Cubs bullpen is going to be much better than it was last season.  As much as I dislike Pierre, he's still a much better leadoff hitter than anything they had last season.  Tejada will absolutely destroy the ball at Wrigley, and it wouldn't shock me to see their 3-4-5 all hit between 35 and 40 homers.  As much as I think Bedard's overrated, I've long thought that Prior's hype doesn't match his productivity.  The Cubs pitching would keep them in games, but their offense would be extremely good next year.

I would probably agree with Fathom that the Cubs offense could make things interesting next year if the deal went through as written up there, but that's only because I've spent the last 2 seasons being disappointed by Prior, and I'm at the point where I don't think the Cubs are going to get a full, solid season from him anyway. Getting Tejada and bedard basically for Prior and a little bit more would really be a steal for them, IMO.

 

Edit: Let me add this too...if Carpenter, Rolen, and Edmunds manage to stay healthy for most of the season next year, then that division will be wrapped up in August, assuming of course that Albert stays healthy as well.

Edited December 27, 2005 by Balta1701

[Soxbadger]

This may not be Lou Brock bad, but if the Cubs trade Prior, they will never live it down.

 

When you have a $100 million payroll, you do not trade top pitching talent. Prior is top 5 pitcher every year. He is young, he is dominant, and he has barely even scratched the surface of what he will accomplish.

 

I love Tejada, but when you read Canseco's book and then look at his stats this season, then look at Palmeiro's statement, you have to wonder will Tejada ever be the same player?

 

The only way Im the Cubs and make this trade is if Wood is going.

 

I hope it goes down, because it will set back the Cubs years.

 

SB

[BlackBetsy]

If I'm the Orioles, I don't give up Bedard at all. The whole point of this deal is to shore up a shaky rotation. Sure, Prior is better than Bedard, but the difference between Prior and Bedard is not worth Tejada (and all Patterson and Hill would be are throw-ins, anyway). You still have a rotation slot to fill.

 

If you are the O's, you are looking for a rotation like Prior-Bedard-Cabrera-Chen-Lopez. Relatively solid 1-5. Prior-Cabrera-Chen-Lopez-Penn won't get you anywhere in the AL East.

[ZoomSlowik]

The Cubs bullpen is going to be much better than it was last season.  As much as I dislike Pierre, he's still a much better leadoff hitter than anything they had last season.  Tejada will absolutely destroy the ball at Wrigley, and it wouldn't shock me to see their 3-4-5 all hit between 35 and 40 homers.  As much as I think Bedard's overrated, I've long thought that Prior's hype doesn't match his productivity.  The Cubs pitching would keep them in games, but their offense would be extremely good next year.

 

How has that worked out for the Reds the last few years? They've gone with the all-offense-no-pitching approach for a while and they end up in the bottom half of the division every year. Pierre and Tejada are definite upgrades, I won't argue that. But I wouldn't expect Tejada to do much more than he did last year. Camden Yards isn't exactly a pitchers' park, so I wouldn't expect him to beat his career high in homers. Even with Tejada, Lee repeating last years' performance (not likely, I'd say more like .285 with 37 homers), and Aramis staying healthy all year, you could argue that St. Louis would have a better 3-4-5 with a healthy Rolen. The St. Louis bunch would certainly have a higher OBP, which still looks like a sore spot for the Cubs.

 

Say what you want about Prior, he still went 11-7 with a 3.67 ERA last year. Zambrano is the only guy that can even get close to that type of production if the trade goes through. The Cubs' 2-5 starters would all be at or around .500 with ERA's around 4 if not higher. That doesn't win you games in the NL, especially in a division with some fairly good pitching. Plus their bullpen hasn't exactly gotten a lot stronger, I really don't see that. We all know that Eyre and Howry are not exactly studs, and Dempster can still pull a Joe Borowski. None of their guys are shutdown type relievers, so they've probably gotten a moderate improvement at best. They'd need to improve by about 15 games in the standings to compete with the Cardinals, and I don't see how adding Pierre, Jones, Tejada, Bedard, Eyre, and Howry results in more than about 10 more wins, especially when counteracted by the loss of a solid starter like Prior.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I don't think most here believe Bedardis wonderful its just that relative to what they have, he is their best. That's why many think it'd be foolish to trade him. If you deal Bedard you upgrade goign to Prior but you don't fill out more of the 5 spots

[Ozzie Montana]

Did anyone watch the World Series last year? Both teams competing for the World Series had s*** offenses. Pitching, Pitching, and more pitching. That is what wins. Why is it so hard for GM's to figure out?

Great Point. Well some GM's have been working hard at that. Texas has got Millwood and it looks like they get the point, KC has been pulling out some suprise stops at pitching, even Toronto is now atleast attempting to bolster the pitching with Burnett although im not sure which is bigger ''the price or the reward'', the Cubs have made 2 solid aquisitions at the bullpen with Howry and Erye. There's probably a lot I left out but that's whats popping into my head now.

Another point is that the price for pitching is sky-rocketed. Even the average pitcher can get 5-6 mil and with one good year they push to 9-10 mil. It is true that the market is changing, especially for the pitchers.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Ozzie Montana

[WCSox]

They won't move Prior if another solid pitcher isn't involved in the deal.

[LosMediasBlancas]

I didn't read this whole thread, but I heard:

Cubs give up Prior, Patterson and Hill to the O's

O's give up Tejada and Bedard to the Cubs

the Cubs then trade Bedard for Zito..............just what I heard.

[Fingish]

I didn't read this whole thread, but I heard:

Cubs give up Prior, Patterson and Hill to the O's

O's give up Tejada and Bedard to the Cubs

the Cubs then trade Bedard for Zito..............just what I heard.

 

 

Bedard and Who?

 

Bedard for Zito seems to be a bad deal for the A's...

[Kyyle23]

Bedard and Who?

 

Bedard for Zito seems to be a bad deal for the A's...

 

Cubs rumors dont have to make sense. They just have to make sense for the Cubs. Stop being silly.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Bedard and Who?

 

Bedard for Zito seems to be a bad deal for the A's...

 

Supposedly straight up. I agree, the A's would be getting raped. Maybe the Cubs will sweeten it with prospects.

Isn't Zito a FA after '06 and hasn't he hinted at wanting to play in NY?

[fathom]

Tejada and Zito can join Furcal, Beltran, and others on the Cubs wet dream team.

[RockRaines]

Tejada and Zito can join Furcal, Beltran, and others on the Cubs wet dream team.

I cant even believe this nonsense has gone on this long.

 

Hendry will regret the day he traded prior if that ever happens.

 

Cubs fans think they can trade Rich hill for Abreu for god sake, their prospects arent worth s*** at this point. Even Pie is overrated. I hope they enjoy another 4th place finish.

[fathom]

I cant even believe this nonsense has gone on this long.

 

Hendry will regret the day he traded prior if that ever happens.

 

Cubs fans think they can trade Rich hill for Abreu for god sake, their prospects arent worth s*** at this point.  Even Pie is overrated.  I hope they enjoy another 4th place finish.

 

I hate the Cubs (have to use that disclaimer whenever I praise any Cubs player), but Hill and Pie have a TON of value. Even though I've never been impressed by Hill, he's considered one of the best lefty pitching prospects in baseball.

[RockRaines]

I hate the Cubs (have to use that disclaimer whenever I praise any Cubs player), but Hill and Pie have a TON of value.  Even though I've never been impressed by Hill, he's considered one of the best lefty pitching prospects in baseball.

From watching him, im unimpressed, and I think that the cubs man love of Pie has lead to an increase in his value. Chris Young is a better prospect than him IMO.

[LosMediasBlancas]

I cant even believe this nonsense has gone on this long.

 

Hendry will regret the day he traded prior if that ever happens.

 

Cubs fans think they can trade Rich hill for Abreu for god sake, their prospects arent worth s*** at this point.  Even Pie is overrated.  I hope they enjoy another 4th place finish.

 

Hasn't Prior already said he won't re sign with them in '07?