Guest JimH Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Levine is on with Silverman as a co host this morning, no they have not killed one another yet. Thought this warranted a new thread vs. tacking it on to the 16 pager. Here is what Levine said, this is 2nd hand from quickman: - Garland's agent (Craig Landis) has told the White Sox there will be no negotiations on a new contract. Doesn't matter if the White Sox say 8,9 10 million per year. No negotiations. Garland wants the leverage. - Ken Williams, therefore, is attempting to trade Garland for two bullpen arms, not prospects per se. Although one could be an "on the cusp" guy. - He also said that Crede will not sign a long term deal here, that it's Boras' job to get the player to free agency (duh). - Levine believes Garland could get as much as $9M in arbitration for 2006. Further he states the White Sox are, at present, several million over budget. No teams were mentioned as possible trading partners. Levine said KW's primary objective right now is moving Garland for bullpen help. ************* Analysis: If Levine is to be believed, this makes sense in terms of how the White Sox do business. Garland's agent, Craig Landis, has a good relationship with the White Sox (see: Paul Konerko). Note how Konerko took less to stay here. Note how Garland does not want to negotiate with the White Sox. What does that tell you? Garland either wants to: - explore free agency - or, be traded to a team of his preference and sign a long term deal there Draw your own conclusions. Here are mine: Garland will be traded to a west coast team by late January, after all the free agent pitching is settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:07 AM) Here are mine: Garland will be traded to a west coast team by late January, after all the free agent pitching is settled. That would be my guess as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I still think it is so unlike Garland. He has many friends on this team, including Buehrle, and this has been his only team. Ozzie is also the first manager to really have confidence in him. This situation smells a little funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 01:12 PM) I still think it is so unlike Garland. He has many friends on this team, including Buehrle, and this has been his only team. Ozzie is also the first manager to really have confidence in him. This situation smells a little funny. I can defintely agree with that. IMO, he's acting like a little beeyotch like he is only in it for the money. f*** it, let him go play for a losing team where he can make a lot of money. Thanks for helping us win the World Series.....bye! KW, get me 2 major league ready relievers and wave fairwell to Jon. Loyalty and comarodory must not mean much to Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I still think it is so unlike Garland. He has many friends on this team, including Buehrle, and this has been his only team. Ozzie is also the first manager to really have confidence in him. This situation smells a little funny. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He's one year away from free agency, he's from the West coast and so is his family, doesn't smell funny to me in the slightest. He's a professional athlete looking for his own best interests, i.e. money and choice of where to play. These guys are one big fraternity, they have friends all over the place on other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:16 AM) Loyalty and comarodory must not mean much to Jon. Those things don't exist in baseball anymore, period. You can't blame either side for what they want and have to do in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 01:18 PM) Those things don't exist in baseball anymore, period. You can't blame either side for what they want and have to do in this situation. So then what was that display that PK showed??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Those things don't exist in baseball anymore, period. You can't blame either side for what they want and have to do in this situation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exactly, and yes, it's a two way street. Each side will do what's best for them, it's a business. I see Garland's point of view and I agree with what Williams is trying to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Thanks for the WS, Jon. Now, see you in Hell. Joe Crede's new nickname, if this is to be believed, can be Joe Greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 So then what was that display that PK showed??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He wouldn't have re-signed with the White Sox if not for the 5th year. It was Chicago or the west coast, and the White Sox had to come up with the 5th year to retain him. A healthy mix of economics thrown into the loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:19 AM) So then what was that display that PK showed??? That he wanted to stay here. This was the place he wanted to be, Jon obviously wants to be on the west coast with his family. When the difference in money is 5 mill then there is a good shot the player will just choose to play where he wants to be and not just follow the money. Now, Jon wants to play on the west coast and he can make atleast an extra 25 mill in free agency, from his perspective why would he sign an extension right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 12:18 PM) Those things don't exist in baseball anymore, period. You can't blame either side for what they want and have to do in this situation. So AJ siging a 3yr $15 million contract to stay with the Sox is not loyalty, when Ramon Hernandez signs a $27.5 million, four-year contract? Chipper Jones restructured his contract to lower his salary. It happens all the time. There is always someone to blame. It doesn't just happen and both sides wake up and go "Oh darn we are really in a difficult situation". Jon has always made comments on how he would like to pitch on the left coast, closer to home. He just never had the leverage to do anything about it because he was not a hot commodity. The Sox stayed with him for all those 12-12 years with 4.50 ERA's. What do they get in return? This situation. So I have to put the blame in Jon's court. I understand he is due a fair contract, but he can easily be a one year wonder since that is all he has done in his career. Edited December 22, 2005 by WinninUgly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:20 AM) Thanks for the WS, Jon. Now, see you in Hell. Joe Crede's new nickname, if this is to be believed, can be Joe Greedy. Oh, horray, he graduated from Cruddy and Crediocre. :rolly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:16 AM) I can defintely agree with that. IMO, he's acting like a little beeyotch like he is only in it for the money. f*** it, let him go play for a losing team where he can make a lot of money. Thanks for helping us win the World Series.....bye! KW, get me 2 major league ready relievers and wave fairwell to Jon. Loyalty and comarodory must not mean much to Jon. loyalty goes two ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I like Garland, and think he's matured a lot in the last year. However, there's no comparison between the character of PK and the character of Garland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 12:07 PM) - He also said that Crede will not sign a long term deal here, that it's Boras' job to get the player to free agency (duh). I have a feeling that this will backfire on him in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 12:26 PM) Oh, horray, he graduated from Cruddy and Crediocre. :rolly I was kidding, really. These guys can leave if they want. The team will survive without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(WinninUgly @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:26 AM) So AJ siging a 3yr $15 million contract to stay with the Sox is not loyalty, when Ramon Hernandez signs a $27.5 million, four-year contract? Chipper Jones restructured his contract to lower his salary. It happens all the time. There is always someone to blame. It doesn't just happen and both sides wake up and go "Oh darn we are really in a difficult situation". Jon has always made comments on how he would like to pitch on the left coast, closer to home. He just never had the leverage to do anything about it because he was not a hot commodity. The Sox stayed with him for all those 12-12 years with 4.50 ERA's. What do they get in return? This situation. So I have to put the blame in Jon's court. I understand he is due a fair contract, but he can easily be a one year wonder since that is all he has done in his career. Ok...let me rephrase that: When a young pitcher is entering his prime after coming off an 18 win season, he's just not going to sign an extension out of loyalty. Likewise, a team isn't going to re-sign a 37 year old dh out of loyalty, it's just bad business. You're right though, there are players who will stay loyal to a team but not in this situation is what I'm trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:30 AM) I was kidding, really. These guys can leave if they want. The team will survive without them. Sorry about that then, all the clever nicknames around here get on my nerves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 12:32 PM) Sorry about that then, all the clever nicknames around here get on my nerves. Hey, at least it rhymes. And you have to admit, everyone knows that Boras agents are usually greedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(WinninUgly @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 09:26 AM) So AJ siging a 3yr $15 million contract to stay with the Sox is not loyalty, when Ramon Hernandez signs a $27.5 million, four-year contract? Chipper Jones restructured his contract to lower his salary. It happens all the time. AJ was arbitration eligible in the first year of that deal, so signing a 3 year, $15 million deal gets him money sooner and probably earns him as much as he would over those 3 years if he stayed healthy all next year and went out into the FA market. Chipper Jones restructured his contract to lower his salary during his contract's highest salary years, but in exchange he got an option year on his contract turned into a guaranteed year. He will make more money total after the restructuring than he would before because of the additional guaranteed year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 (edited) God damn are athletes spoiled. No loyalty. People are out there making 20 grand a year trying to pay for a family of 5 while these 20 year old are out there making millions and crying for more. f*** Jon Garland. f*** Latrell Spreewell. f*** Joe Crede. God damn greedy bastards. All these athletes piss me off. Why don't they want to play in the olympics? Why dont they want to play in the World Championships? Because they don't get payed for it. Come back to the real world you greedy bastards. What some players make in 1 inning, my mom makes in 1 year. :headshake Edited December 22, 2005 by SoxFan1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:33 AM) How can you not like the very creative Jizzcaino! :banghead :banghead Gas-caino was my fav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Can we avoid trashing the loyalty of these guys though? We have no clue what the contract offers were, and why they might not want to stay. We could question the loyalty of all players, but I would much rather this thread stick to what type of relievers we could try and trade for Garland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 QUOTE(Goldmember @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 05:27 PM) loyalty goes two ways... exactly. when organizations make loyalty a priority, then i'll hold players to the same standard. until then, it is what it is and if you don't like it you should probably quit following sports and take up knitting or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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