The lastest on Garland

[NorthSideSox72]

The tradeoff is pretty simple assuming Garland pitches somewhere in the vicinity of where he did last year: small economic loss for one year and that's it, or a very good possibility of going back into the ALCS or WS (on paper, of course). The deeper the Sox get into the playoffs the more money they would recoup. If you make an economic loss for one year it's not going to ruin the franchise. It could be easily offset down the road.

 

JR and the gang are HIGHLY RISK AVERSE. They've shown this over the years. I therefore doubt they'll take a flyer on a POSSIBLE appearance in the WS, and the OUTSIDE possibility that this enormous jump in attendence will stick for years to come. Not gonna happen.

[AddisonStSox]

A few things:

 

-Some people need to come to grips with Jon Garland wearing another uniform next season and beyond. The writing is on the wall. This is the sole reason why Javier Vazquez was acquired--and I've come to appreciate the genius behind that move. He trades two spare parts and an absolutely first-class prospect for a front-of-the-rotation type pitcher making a very reasonable salary in terms of this completely skewed starting pitching market. Javier Vazquez represents the direction this team, and likewise, Kenny Williams, is heading. Clearly, this organization hopes to keep pitching a priority and wants to lock some of these players up while they can. Garland is not open to coming back to the White Sox without tapping free agency--which is the absolute right move for him to make--and becomes expendable. You trade Garland and you get back to making a five-year board that makes some sense.

 

-A World Championship changes things...it changes A LOT of things. It changes things for both the players and the organization. For the players, they have their rings. They were a part of something very special and had some of the best chemistry ever assembled. Now, they have the luxury of getting paid. I simply can't fault either Garland or Crede for wanting to hit the open-market and get their pay day. Crede's situation is a little different because we just don't have anyone waiting in the wings for the 3B slot and we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Crede will be this team's starting 3B for this season, but, look for him to either be in trade-talks at the deadline or donning another uniform in 2007. It also changes things for the organization. Kenny is playing with house money. He can afford to shake things up and take some risks because this organization has it's rings now. But, if you'll notice, he's doing it the right way. Clearly, he has a plan and can see that players like Garland and Crede are either not in those plans or are huge question marks.

 

-If you don't like the idea of Garland being moved, you're going to hate to see Crede wearing another uniform in 2007. Sorry.

Edited December 22, 2005 by AddisonStSox

[Cerbaho-WG]

-If you don't like the idea of Garland being moved, you're going to hate to see Crede wearing another uniform in 2007.  Sorry.

 

I sincerely doubt that people will have the same uproar over Crede that's happening with Garland, especially if Crede puts up another .250-25 season. But the great thing about the possibiity of trading Jon to the Dodgers is that you could get LaRoche in the deal who would at the least provide incentive to Fields to start looking over his shoulder a little bit.

[beck72]

Kenny is playing with house money.  He can afford to shake things up and take some risks because this organization has it's rings now.  But, if you'll notice, he's doing it the right way.  Clearly, he has a plan and can see that players like Garland and Crede are either not in those plans or are huge question marks.

 

Sounds like you're the one giving KW a free pass now doesn't it

[drowninginflame]

So AJ siging a 3yr $15 million contract to stay with the Sox is not loyalty, when Ramon Hernandez signs a $27.5 million, four-year contract?

 

Chipper Jones restructured his contract to lower his salary.

 

It happens all the time.

 

There is always someone to blame.  It doesn't just happen and both sides wake up and go "Oh darn we are really in a difficult situation".  Jon has always made comments on how he would like to pitch on the left coast, closer to home.  He just never had the leverage to do anything about it because he was not a hot commodity.  The Sox stayed with him for all those 12-12 years with 4.50 ERA's.  What do they get in return?  This situation.  So I have to put the blame in Jon's court.  I understand he is due a fair contract, but he can easily be a one year wonder since that is all he has done in his career.

 

 

you read my mind.

 

Garland is a douche, I've never bought into him for one second.

[SSH2005]

you read my mind.

 

Garland is a douche, I've never bought into him for one second.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[beck72]

you read my mind.

 

Garland is a douche, I've never bought into him for one second.

I've never been the biggest Garland backer. But give the guy a break. He's looking to capitalize on his success [whether you think he deserves it or not] like every other person in his situation would.

[drowninginflame]

He desrves his money, but it pisses me off when guys like him and crede who haven't been spectacular are trying to play a power game.

 

Joe Crede normally gets s*** on by everyone, now he found his way into our hearts and he wants to get paid? After the sox stuck by him even in Chavezgate and a million other scenarios? f*** that.

 

Jon Garland was a hack who blew up one inning every time he pitched, AJ taught him to control his game and now he's a stud?

No thanks dude, you sucked for the last few years and you have one breakout year...remember loiza? one breakout year and now he's a bland overpaid guy swindling the A's for 21M...Garland should get off the west coast thing and pitch for who stuck by him.

If not, see you in hell and I can't wait till Thome/Konerko destroy you.

[SSH2005]

If not, see you in hell and I can't wait till Thome/Konerko destroy you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[AddisonStSox]

So AJ siging a 3yr $15 million contract to stay with the Sox is not loyalty, when Ramon Hernandez signs a $27.5 million, four-year contract?

 

Chipper Jones restructured his contract to lower his salary.

 

It happens all the time.

 

There is always someone to blame.  It doesn't just happen and both sides wake up and go "Oh darn we are really in a difficult situation".  Jon has always made comments on how he would like to pitch on the left coast, closer to home.  He just never had the leverage to do anything about it because he was not a hot commodity.  The Sox stayed with him for all those 12-12 years with 4.50 ERA's.  What do they get in return?  This situation.  So I have to put the blame in Jon's court.  I understand he is due a fair contract, but he can easily be a one year wonder since that is all he has done in his career.

 

Please. Just humor us and do a little bit of research before this sort of thing.

 

A) Chipper Jones restructured his contract to get more guaranteed money. That got him MORE guaranteed green, while giving the Braves more money to work with in the short-term.

 

B ) As far as Pierzynski goes, he got a very fair contract. He took a fair contract when it was offered to him. Whenever you decide to hold out for a contract, you put so much more to chance. Why go out there and get injured? Why go out there and watch your average continue to dip, hurting your value? Why? He got an offer from an organization he felt very comfortable with and he took it. No such loyalty.

 

How about Ben Sheets? Ben Sheets to a lot of money from the Brewers were he felt comfortable and felt he would be able to secure a bit of his future by signing on the dotted line. If he were to hit free agency, and were healthy, coming off another outstanding year, he would have made MUCH more money from another club. But, why put health and preformance to chance and risk hurting your GETTING MORE MONEY. It's about money.

 

It was about money with Chipper; it's about money with Pierzynski.

 

Do home-town discounts even exist anymore?

[greasywheels121]

He desrves his money, but it pisses me off when guys like him and crede who haven't been spectacular are trying to play a power game.

 

Joe Crede normally gets s*** on by everyone, now he found his way into our hearts and he wants to get paid? After the sox stuck by him even in Chavezgate and a million other scenarios? f*** that.

 

Jon Garland was a hack who blew up one inning every time he pitched, AJ taught him to control his game and now he's a stud?

No thanks dude, you sucked for the last few years and you have one breakout year...remember loiza? one breakout year and now he's a bland overpaid guy swindling the A's for 21M...Garland should get off the west coast thing and pitch for who stuck by him.

If not, see you in hell and I can't wait till Thome/Konerko destroy you.

 

If JG turned around and decided to stay with the Sox, you'd be slurping him so hard.

[Soxfest]

1 Good year Garland can go, someone else can WAY overpay for him. I am glad Sox are not gonna be that team, never have been a big fan of his to begin with save money for Buerhle.

Edited December 22, 2005 by Soxfest

[drowninginflame]

thats bulls***, I've hated garland for a long time.

 

Sure, if he resigned, I would be like, hey lets hope this year he's got it going again.

 

otherwise f*** garland, and I don't slurp anyone.

[southsideirish71]

For a little levity ....

 

After Jon is traded we will need to locate the teams fan webboards and show them a picture of what helped Jon become the pitcher he is today.

 

Edited December 22, 2005 by southsideirish71

[ZoomSlowik]

To put the price we'd have to end up paying for Garland in prospective (either signing and extension now or after the season), Ben Sheets and Johan Santana both signed for 4 years and 40 mil before last season. We offered Jon $24 mil over 3 years, and he obviously wasn't happy with that offer. Those guys are both light-years better than Jon, and if that's what it'll take to keep him I'd rather deal him for some cheap young talent and move on. I seriously doubt that Jon is ever going to be worth that kind of money. Buehrle is an entirely different story, and so are Freddy and Jose if they pitch well again this year. I'm more than happy with those 3 leading the rotation and filling it out with Javier and B-Mac, assuming we can work out deals for the first 3 when it is necessary.

[drowninginflame]

To put the price we'd have to end up paying for Garland in prospective (either signing and extension now or after the season), Ben Sheets and Johan Santana both signed for 4 years and 40 mil before last season. We offered Jon $24 mil over 3 years, and he obviously wasn't happy with that offer. Those guys are both light-years better than Jon, and if that's what it'll take to keep him I'd rather deal him for some cheap young talent and move on. I seriously doubt that Jon is ever going to be worth that kind of money. Buehrle is an entirely different story, and so are Freddy and Jose if they pitch well again this year. I'm more than happy with those 3 leading the rotation and filling it out with Javier and B-Mac, assuming we can work out deals for the first 3 when it is necessary.

 

 

 

sounds like someone here is making some real sense

[Adam G]

To put the price we'd have to end up paying for Garland in prospective (either signing and extension now or after the season), Ben Sheets and Johan Santana both signed for 4 years and 40 mil before last season. We offered Jon $24 mil over 3 years, and he obviously wasn't happy with that offer. Those guys are both light-years better than Jon, and if that's what it'll take to keep him I'd rather deal him for some cheap young talent and move on.

The difference being that Sheets and Santana havent gotten to that magic six year mark yet and their teams still own them. That doesnt apply to Garland.

[nitetrain8601]

To put the price we'd have to end up paying for Garland in prospective (either signing and extension now or after the season), Ben Sheets and Johan Santana both signed for 4 years and 40 mil before last season. We offered Jon $24 mil over 3 years, and he obviously wasn't happy with that offer. Those guys are both light-years better than Jon, and if that's what it'll take to keep him I'd rather deal him for some cheap young talent and move on. I seriously doubt that Jon is ever going to be worth that kind of money. Buehrle is an entirely different story, and so are Freddy and Jose if they pitch well again this year. I'm more than happy with those 3 leading the rotation and filling it out with Javier and B-Mac, assuming we can work out deals for the first 3 when it is necessary.

 

See post above me

 

Garland's priority is cash right now and I won't knock him for it because I would probably be the same as 90% of the world would be.

 

Let me ask you this, when Freddy becomes a FA, how much do you think he'll receive? Keep in mind, not warrant, receive.

Edited December 22, 2005 by nitetrain8601

[southsider2k5]

sounds like someone here is making some real sense

 

the market isn't there anymore. Price's have gone up. Remember you were paying about $1.30 for a gallon of gas then too...

[Dick Allen]

See post above me

 

Garland's priority is cash right now and I won't knock him for it because I would probably be the same as 90% of the world would be.

 

Let me ask you this, when Freddy becomes a FA, how much do you think he'll receive? Keep in mind, not warrant, receive.

Freddy is fully aware of the money he lost not going through free agency. I really doubt he'll give the White Sox a break his next contract.

[ZoomSlowik]

the market isn't there anymore.  Price's have gone up.  Remember you were paying about $1.30 for a gallon of gas then too...

 

Where were you paying $1.30 a gallon last year?

 

When it occurred doesn't change anything. Pitchers got big time money before and they'll get it again. The market hasn't really changed any. Mike Hampton, Darren Driefort, and Denny Neagle are just some of the people that got ridiculously high deals, and none of those came this year. You're still not going to see a whole lot of pitchers making over $12 mil. In fact, there are only a handful getting more than $10 mil on the market right now (IIRC the only starter that has this offseason is Burnett, and Pavano, Colon, and Pedro were the only ones last year).

[nitetrain8601]

Freddy is fully aware of the money he lost not going through free agency. I really doubt he'll give the White Sox a break his next contract.

 

Exactly my point. These players are going to keep on getting whatever they can until the market bursts and there is a strike. If I'm Garland, I'm looking over to Burnett and saying, I've accomplished more in my career, why can't I get more money?

[Flash Tizzle]

I don't care if it's illegal, I'm in support of collusion. Refuse to pay starting pitchers who intend on earning ridiculous contracts. Why should players and agents such as Boras pull the strings? How desperate would Milwood, for example, be if no one signed him through spring training? Then we'd be able to negotiate fair deals. When accusations arise of collusion, I'd just say, "We don't believe these players are worth this amount. Obviously, others don't as well." No one is forced to sign anyone.

Edited December 22, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[SSH2005]

I don't care if it's illegal, I'm in support of collusion. Refuse to pay starting pitchers who intend on earning ridiculous contracts. Why should players and agents such as Boras pull the strings? How desperate would Milwood, for example, be if no one signed him through spring training? Then we'd be able to negotiate fair deals. When accusations arise of collusion, I'd just say, "We don't believe these players are worth this amount. Obviously, others don't as well." No one is forced to sign anyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If there was a salary cap in baseball, the problem would solve itself.

[RME JICO]

If there was a salary cap in baseball, the problem would solve itself.

Yep, you beat me to the punch.

 

Why has this not been discussed before?