sox-r-us Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Hello everybody. I am new to this board. Long time reader, but first time poster. So, go easy on me Now, I have been feeling the pain all of you have since the game in Baltimore. We had a great comeback win tonight, but we need KW to do something to change this team if we want to get to the playoffs. Clearly, we have two options right now.......either break this team up if it continues to stagger or fix the obvious gaps on this team and FIX IT RIGHT NOW. I choose the latter.....we should go for it, if we have done so much in the off season, I rather go down trying to improve than just giving up. So, what are the gaps on this team: 1) Not much speed in the field 2) Not much speed on the basepaths 3) Serious concerns with defense in CF (see Rios today or Willie before) 4) Serious concerns of no CF batting production 5) Too many right handed batters in this team, making it easy for the opposing pitcher There are other concerns (production from our #3,4,5,6 being obvious), but for now, let's look at the gaps above. Also, we all know that we have to fix the gaps above under the following boundary conditions: 1) We cannot spend too much (This is JR we are talking about). Also, the crowds have been bad again, so there will not be many options in terms of available cash to spend. 2) We do not want to trade for some stud CF, since it will not only cost a lot, but even if the salary is decent, it will require us to give up some prized prospect like Rauch or Cotts or give up on some current player which will only create another hole. 3) We cannot trade for a CF'er who is the cornerstone of another team or on a team that is gunning for the playoffs themselves. We need to trade with a team that is going nowhere, making it easy to trade in terms of leverage. Also, we need a team that is ALREADY looking to next year, so we do not have to wait until the trade deadline when the cost may go up. 4) We cannot trade Kong or Lee or Daubach....who would want them right now especially at Kong's salary. So, I have come to the conclusion that we should get a STOP GAP CF'er who may not last beyond this year, but will help us get to the playoffs this year. AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN.....I KEEP THINKING OF ONLY ONE SUCH PLAYER THAT FILLS ALMOST ALL OF THE GAPS LISTED ABOVE, AND DOES NOT CAUSE US TO BREAK ANY OF OUR BOUNDARY CONDITIONS FROM ABOVE. Guess who? Kenny Lofton, my friends. Yes, he had a bad phase last year, but when he was rocking at the start of the season last year, that was the ONLY time, this team rocked after the 2000 season. Yes, he had a bad phase last year but he played very well with the Giants in the playoffs last year. Yes, he is old, but we simply need a stop gap one year player. He plays for a team, that is already out and will be willing to give him up for not much in return. Think about it: 1) We get speed in CF.....with Lee and Maggs as our corner OFer's, we badly need someone who can cover lots of ground out there to cover for them 2) We get a legit lead off man with speed who can steal and create havoc on the base.....if nothing else, it will make the pitcher think of a steal with him on the base 3) We get a left handed bat.....suddenly, we put Jimenez at 2 and send Val to 6 or 7 to split up the righties/lefties 4) We get someone who is producing with the bat......he has a 17 game hitting streak I believe for the buckos Yes, folks are concerned with his attitude (bad in the clubhouse etc from last year), but come one guys......this guy gives us what we desperately need without trading anything precious in return.....do you want KW even have to attempt to trade for Beltran instead, knowing fully well we will get raped in return, most likely LET ME OFFICIALLY BEGIN THE "BRING KENNY BACK" CAMPAIGN. Anyone else want to jump on this bandwagon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 LET ME OFFICIALLY BEGIN THE "BRING KENNY BACK" CAMPAIGN. Anyone else want to jump on this bandwagon? No. I see the logic in your explanation. I just think Lofton's best years are well behind him. I'd rather see the Sox deal a player and/or prospects for a guy like Beltran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I'll pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 OK, here are Kenny's stats for 2003 with the Buckos. Guess what He has 9 steals, which is one less I believe than the ENTIRE SOX TEAM He is batting 0.299, which is freaking better than every Sox player right now PLEASE GET KENNY BACK KW SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG 2003 Pittsburgh Pirates 41 164 28 49 6 1 4 15 69 14 18 9 3 .358 .421 .299 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 So between Willie Harris, Rowand, Rios and Kenny, would you guys still want us not to get Kenny? I just do not see us being able to get anyone who will give us as much bang for the buck and be a fit in terms of what we badly need One point I failed to make is Kenny is a much better contact hitter than Willie or Rowand or even Rios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I agree with you from the sense that he is a much better option than Harris or Rios if neither of them are going to step up. I also am very leary of Borchard right now meaning that Lofton would be a perfect pickup. No one has earned the job and Lofton is the perfect type of stopgap and would be able to leadoff pushing Jimenez to the 2 hole and Jose down in the order. Plus, the Sox could get away with it giving up someone like White or Ginter or a PTBNL. I really don't think the Pirates would ask for too much. I still get a feeling that the Pads may eventually look to move Mark Kotsay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 The good thing is if Kenny does not work out, it frankly will not matter. His D and speed in CF will help us win close games. Think about how much better CLee looked last year with Kenny roaming the center. Anyone else realize what s***ty D we have ..... even if we had the Yankees starting pitching, with this D, we would give up at least 5 runs a game I hope KW realizes how impt Kenny si to us right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 The good thing is if Kenny does not work out, it frankly will not matter. His D and speed in CF will help us win close games. Think about how much better CLee looked last year with Kenny roaming the center. Anyone else realize what s***ty D we have ..... even if we had the Yankees starting pitching, with this D, we would give up at least 5 runs a game I hope KW realizes how impt Kenny si to us right now Plus Lee is vastly improved this season over last year. Seriously, people may talk about his inconstencies but to me Carlos has improved every aspect of his game from season to season. He improved his eye, improved his defense and then this year he is taking it to a whole new level and he's hitting the ball with authority. I figure he'll have around a .280 avg this season with power runs and a very high obp. Plus he's very clutch and he's a respectable fielder. People need to forget the past and watch the way he's playing now. He's making some great plays out there and hustles every time. Also, for those ripping Jimenez, you see the plays today? His range is really improving now that his knee is 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjmarte Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 That's it? Your magic bullet is Kenny Lofton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Lets think of it this way, we could do a Ginter for Lofton deal and I'd say both sides could win. I am of the belief that Ginter will turn into a solid reliever while Lofton would help the Sox big time. I'd hope to be able to get it done for less, but I won't complain either way. As long as we aren't giving up a Diaz type prospect. Heres one that Hudler would like, Shaffer for Lofton Then Yan could finally move up to AA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 The good thing is if Kenny does not work out, it frankly will not matter. His D and speed in CF will help us win close games. Think about how much better CLee looked last year with Kenny roaming the center. Anyone else realize what s***ty D we have ..... even if we had the Yankees starting pitching, with this D, we would give up at least 5 runs a game I hope KW realizes how impt Kenny si to us right now .299 with 9 SB's? In 2002 Lofton hit .343 with 13 SB's and a .420 OBP in April. In May he hit .258 and added 7 more SB's with an OBP of .345. In June he hit .136 with 1 SB and a .268 OBP. He did rebound to hit .280 in July before he was traded, but only added one more SB. Do we want to risk this same diminishing returns we got last year from him? He stole 2 bases in two months before he was traded. He got off to an even better start last year with us and then fell off big time and people couldn't wait to get rid of him. I just don't think we want to run the risk of trading for a guy who may only give us exactly what we are getting now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Lets think of it this way, we could do a Ginter for Lofton deal and I'd say both sides could win. I am of the belief that Ginter will turn into a solid reliever while Lofton would help the Sox big time. I'd hope to be able to get it done for less, but I won't complain either way. As long as we aren't giving up a Diaz type prospect. Heres one that Hudler would like, Shaffer for Lofton Then Yan could finally move up to AA. Tell you what......... find a way to get Shaffer included in the deal and I will sign off on a Lofton trade. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 Rex Even if Kenny only stole only once, that would be one more than our current CFs would be able to Yes, Willie has speed, but when is he on the freaking bases to matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Rex Even if Kenny only stole only once, that would be one more than our current CFs would be able to Yes, Willie has speed, but when is he on the freaking bases to matter Rex the sad things is, those numbers from Lofton during his slump would be better then we got right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Rex Even if Kenny only stole only once, that would be one more than our current CFs would be able to Yes, Willie has speed, but when is he on the freaking bases to matter Trading for Lofton is very risky. If he busts like he did last year, the Sox look completely stupid for allowing history to repeat itself. I still say bring up Rowand and give him another shot. Give him 2 weeks and if that doesn't work, get someone else. Lofton could be the answer, but if he is not, the Sox look like the biggest idiots around, and I don't think any GM would take that risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 That's it? Your magic bullet is Kenny Lofton? Sorry to disappoint, bimarte, but when you have an owner like JR, magic bullets are rare I mean, of course, I would rather have Beltran...but we are not the freaking yankees We have a budget that is 1/3 of the yankees, we cannot dream too high I want this team to get better....and no one can convince me that Kenny is not better for us FOR THIS YEAR than Rowand/Harris/Rios Let Rios be on the bench. Let Rowand and Harris figure out how to play in AAA. Next year, one of them might make this team, but this year we need to get better at CF RIGHT NOW. Again, if we get someone better than Kenny, more power to the Sox....but why do I get the feeling we will not be able to do any better than Kenny...in which case I rahter get him NOW to stop this bleeding We need to add some different dimension to this team.....Kenny does that Yes, Rex, Kenny really struggled after his fast start last year with us But guess what, at his worst, he was as good as Willie or Rowand. Then add in how well he played in the playoffs, and we need him. And keep in mind, you are talking about his O and SB suffering, but what about his D.....he has always been solid there. I am tired of our CF'ers letting balls bounce out of their gloves or not able to reach bloopers (like tonight) GET KENNY HERE NOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 Rex Even if Kenny only stole only once, that would be one more than our current CFs would be able to Yes, Willie has speed, but when is he on the freaking bases to matter Trading for Lofton is very risky. If he busts like he did last year, the Sox look completely stupid for allowing history to repeat itself. I still say bring up Rowand and give him another shot. Give him 2 weeks and if that doesn't work, get someone else. Lofton could be the answer, but if he is not, the Sox look like the biggest idiots around, and I don't think any GM would take that risk. Rex, we would look like bigger idiots if after all we did in the offseason (trade for Colon, extend Konerko to a huge contract, revise Thomas's contract and get him back, get Flash to replace Osuna, get Koch to get power in the closer role, get Daubach to replace Liefer as our power hitter off the bench, get White as a solid reliever, get Rios as a solid bench player), we did not take a few more steps to fix our holes. I rather try fixing this mess with low risk moves, than get another high profile player only to see us tank some more. Kenny fills our holes.....he will have some slumps offensively, but his D and speed in CF is enough to get him here RIGHT NOW It is all about value, and Kenny provides most value at least cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think any Major League GM in the right mind or even in KW's mind are gutsy enough to bring back a guy who failed for you last year. Especially one whose presence wasn't that great in the clubhouse, from what I understand. There may be another option, but I do not think Lofton is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Last year Rowand looked better than Lofton after the first month of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think any Major League GM in the right mind or even in KW's mind are gutsy enough to bring back a guy who failed for you last year. Especially one whose presence wasn't that great in the clubhouse, from what I understand. There may be another option, but I do not think Lofton is it. No problemo Rex, I just hope KW gets someone here. If not Kenny, that is fine with me, as long as it is an upgrade and we get value (which means not too expensive and we do not give up too much) Shucks....I just saw Kenny tag from 3rd to home on a popout to 2nd....I am sure Willie could do that, if he could only freaking get on a 3rd base EVER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think any Major League GM in the right mind or even in KW's mind are gutsy enough to bring back a guy who failed for you last year. Especially one whose presence wasn't that great in the clubhouse, from what I understand. There may be another option, but I do not think Lofton is it. For another option, I'd love to get Randy Wynn but I think it would be tough to lure him from Seattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think any Major League GM in the right mind or even in KW's mind are gutsy enough to bring back a guy who failed for you last year. Especially one whose presence wasn't that great in the clubhouse, from what I understand. There may be another option, but I do not think Lofton is it. For another option, I'd love to get Randy Wynn but I think it would be tough to lure him from Seattle. Actually, it would be quite easy to get Wynn from Seattle The M's got him by sending Lou to the Devil Rays. Which means all that we would have to do is send our very own lovable Jerry Manuel Yep, that is the trick..... kILLING TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think any Major League GM in the right mind or even in KW's mind are gutsy enough to bring back a guy who failed for you last year. Especially one whose presence wasn't that great in the clubhouse, from what I understand. There may be another option, but I do not think Lofton is it. For another option, I'd love to get Randy Wynn but I think it would be tough to lure him from Seattle. Actually, it would be quite easy to get Wynn from Seattle The M's got him by sending Lou to the Devil Rays. Which means all that we would have to do is send our very own lovable Jerry Manuel Yep, that is the trick..... kILLING TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE Post of the week in my book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think any Major League GM in the right mind or even in KW's mind are gutsy enough to bring back a guy who failed for you last year. Especially one whose presence wasn't that great in the clubhouse, from what I understand. There may be another option, but I do not think Lofton is it. For another option, I'd love to get Randy Wynn but I think it would be tough to lure him from Seattle. Actually, it would be quite easy to get Wynn from Seattle The M's got him by sending Lou to the Devil Rays. Which means all that we would have to do is send our very own lovable Jerry Manuel Yep, that is the trick..... kILLING TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE Post of the week in my book Post of the week after 9 posts...is that a record around here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 :fyou lofton i didnt want him here the first time around i surely dont want a repeat of him coming again..........i agree with rex.. bring rowand back up and let im have at it......and leave the lofton part out of it.. hes not our answer..........hell i would rather get singleton back if that were the case... at least you know he will work hard and everyone in the clubhouse likes him.... HELL NO TO LOFTON ...........i just started that bandwagon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.