Official NBA Discussion Thread

[Rowand44]

ROTFLMAO@The Knicks.  T-mac goes 2 for 19 and the Rockets still clobber them.  Make that 14-35.

wharris said to me today "hopefully the knicks lose, they actually have a winnable game today." My response was just "there is no such thing as a winnable game for the knicks."

Edited February 13, 2006 by Rowand44

[Felix]

I remember earlier this year a kid I know in school was talking about how the Knicks had a better starting 5 than the Spurs.

 

It was, and still is, hilarious to think about.

[Chisoxfn]

wharris said to me today "hopefully the knicks lose, they actually have a winnable game today."  My response was just "there is no such thing as a winnable game for the knicks."

[hammerhead johnson]

I apologize in advance for cherry-picking.

 

Offensive Rebounds Per Minute Since January 21 (w/ a minimum of 250 Minutes Played)

1. Tyson Chandler .158

2. Kendrick Perkins .119

3. Troy Murphy .114

4. Drew Gooden .113

5. Ben Wallace .112

6. Zaza Pachulia .101

7. Kenny Thomas .100

8. Robert Swift .097

9. Zach Randolph .094

10. Shaquille O'Neal .091

11. Dwight Howard .090

12. Samuel Dalembert .089

13. Jamal Magloire .087

14. Kevin Garnett .085

15. Chris Webber .084

 

Overall Rebounds Per Minute Since January 21

1. Tyson Chandler .389

2. Jamal Magloire .348

3. Troy Murphy .341

4. Kevin Garnett .340

5. Drew Gooden .324

6. Samuel Dalembert .316

7. Tim Duncan .312

8. Chris Kaman .308

9. Dwight Howard .307

10. Ben Wallace .305

11. Kendrick Perkins .300

12. Robert Swift .294

13. Shaquille O'Neal .290

14. Kenny Thomas .276

15. Shawn Marion .264

 

I have a question. Why is Tyson Chandler owning people so badly on the boards? Can anyone explain the separation between him and the #2 guy in both categories? Come on, let's talk about this.

Edited February 14, 2006 by hammerhead johnson

[whitesoxfan101]

I apologize in advance for cherry-picking.

 

Offensive Rebounds Per Minute Since January 21 (w/ a minimum of 250 Minutes Played)

1. Tyson Chandler .158

2. Kendrick Perkins .119

3. Troy Murphy .114

4. Drew Gooden .113

5. Ben Wallace .112

6. Zaza Pachulia .101

7. Kenny Thomas .100

8. Robert Swift .097

9. Zach Randolph .094

10. Shaquille O'Neal .091

11. Dwight Howard .090

12. Samuel Dalembert .089

13. Jamal Magloire .087

14. Kevin Garnett .085

15. Chris Webber .084

 

Overall Rebounds Per Minute Since January 21

1. Tyson Chandler .389

2. Jamal Magloire .348

3. Troy Murphy .341

4. Kevin Garnett .340

5. Drew Gooden .324

6. Samuel Dalembert .316

7. Tim Duncan .312

8. Chris Kaman .308

9. Dwight Howard .307

10. Ben Wallace .305

11. Kendrick Perkins .300

12. Robert Swift .294

13. Shaquille O'Neal .290

14. Kenny Thomas .276

15. Shawn Marion .264

 

I have a question.  Why is Tyson Chandler owning people so badly on the boards?  Can anyone explain the separation between him and the #2 guy in both categories?  Come on, let's talk about this. 

 

Yeah, good to see he decided to show up on the glass after not playing the first, what, 35 games? He is still a 13 million dollar man averaging 5 points and 8 rebounds a game this season, so you'll have to do better than that.

[hammerhead johnson]

Yeah, good to see he decided to show up on the glass after not playing the first, what, 35 games?  He is still a 13 million dollar man averaging 5 points and 8 rebounds a game this season, so you'll have to do better than that. 

 

Direct your anger at Skiles, then.

 

Look. I'm not trying to make people look bad. I've been supporting him all along in the face of all kinds of skepticism. Pull up some of the old basketball threads if you want to laugh your ass off at how blatantly wrong people have been. Now he's kicking ass, and people don't want to hear about it. I wouldn't want to hear about it either if I looked like a retard in retrospect. Fortunately, I actually know what the f*** I'm watching, and how to evaluate guys. Pretty odd concept, ain't it?

[hammerhead johnson]

Hey, "Retards In Retrospect" is mine! I have a patent on that s***. I don't wanna hear anybody referring to any groups or individuals as such.

Edited February 14, 2006 by hammerhead johnson

[ZoomSlowik]

I'd rather have Tyson with that contract than some schmuk like Eric Dampier or Adonal Foyle. The contracts for big guys are just absolutely ridiculous across the league. Tyson can definitely be an effective player when he has his s*** together, almost like a poor man's Marcus Camby.

[hammerhead johnson]

I'd rather have Tyson with that contract than some schmuk like Eric Dampier or Adonal Foyle. The contracts for big guys are just absolutely ridiculous across the league. Tyson can definitely be an effective player when he has his s*** together, almost like a poor man's Marcus Camby.

 

And remember, he just turned 23 years old. He is a work in progress. He is about four years from his prime. Marcus Camby is a devastating defender (I'd call him a defensive legend), and I think that Tyson will be as good, if not better than him in time.

[whitesoxfan101]

Direct your anger at Skiles, then.

 

Look.  I'm not trying to make people look bad.  I've been supporting him all along in the face of all kinds of skepticism.  Pull up some of the old basketball threads if you want to laugh your ass off at how blatantly wrong people have been.  Now he's kicking ass, and people don't want to hear about it.  I wouldn't want to hear about it either if I looked like a retard in retrospect.  Fortunately, I actually know what the f*** I'm watching, and how to evaluate guys.  Pretty odd concept, ain't it? 

 

No, he was ON THE FLOOR the first 35 games, he just didn't give a flying f***. Look, I watch the games too, and the Tyson we've seen the last 3 weeks is different in only 1 regard, and that is he's trying. We have to look at the full package though, and even with the last 3 weeks, Tyson has been a dissapointment this year overall. Now if Tyson could play like he has the last few weeks ALL SEASON, hey it could be different. And for the record, I'm not a blind Tyson hater, but at the same time, your an over the top blind Tyson defender, so I'm trying to bring a middle ground here.

 

It's just a fact, Tyson is WAY overpaid and a waste of money unless he have 12 to 14 rebounds, a couple of blocks, and play dominating defense EVERY GAME. Can he do that? Yes, but it's too late for him to fit that description this year, because he didn't do a damn thing the first 35 games or so this year. Now part of that can go on Skiles since he played Tyson out of position, but Tyson was still out of shape and still not giving enough effort, which was also a factor.

 

So in conclusion, I think Tyson can eventually earn his money, and I think PART of the problem earlier this year was him out of position, but at the same time he still overall has been a letdown this season, and 3 weeks of very good play doesn't change that. And also, since Tyson has NO offensive game, he HAS to PLAY HIS ASS OFF and come up big on the glass and defense EVERY GAME, or else the night he doesn't do that he is a below average NBA player.

 

(and sorry that was so long).

[whitesoxfan101]

And remember, he just turned 23 years old.  He is a work in progress.  He is about four years from his prime.  Marcus Camby is a devastating defender (I'd call him a defensive legend), and I think that Tyson will be as good, if not better than him in time.

 

Camby is a significantly better offensive player, I'd take that kind of offensive game out of Tyson in a second if I could get it. However, Camby is hurt WAY too much to be a "defensive legend" although when healthy, he's an all league 1st team defender, which is more than good enough.

[WHarris1]

Going for 10 Boards/G by end of the year...

 

Games Played	Rebounds	Rbs/G

     47	           408	      8.680851064

Games Left	Needs total	Needs in rest of games

     32	           790	                382

Needs per game: 11.9375		

[hammerhead johnson]

See, I don't give a s*** about this year. I've always discussed what Chandler can be in the future, which is all that matters. Right now, he is better than he was last year in terms of rebounding, man defense, passing, court vision, etc. He will only continue to get better.

 

And I don't give a s*** about the money, either. Defense is the name of the game. Protecting your rim is what it's all about. When Tyson alters shots and keeps the other team from scoring and getting second-chance opportunities, it's as if he himself scored. Get it? The Bulls don't have to make up the points if he stopped his opponent from scoring. I'm not gonna expect anyone to understand that. Maybe just a tad too deep.

 

And think of all the second-chance opportunites that he provides for the Bulls on the offensive end. Again, maybe it never crosses the average Bulls fan's mind that something like that actually helps the Bulls offense. He has 60 offensive rebounds in the last 12 games. He is also one of the best in the NBA at keeping rebounds alive on the offensive end (tapping them to teammates, etc). His passing has been damn impressive. He sets picks effectively, etc.

Edited February 14, 2006 by hammerhead johnson

[hammerhead johnson]

Camby is a significantly better offensive player, I'd take that kind of offensive game out of Tyson in a second if I could get it.  However, Camby is hurt WAY too much to be a "defensive legend" although when healthy, he's an all league 1st team defender, which is more than good enough.

 

Defensive Legend = One who is remembered 50 years down the line for his defensive prowess

 

I would say that Marcus qualifies without question. He is an astonishing, absolutely remarkable defender.

[whitesoxfan101]

Defensive Legend = One who is remembered 50 years down the line for his defensive prowess

 

I would say that Marcus qualifies without question.  He is an astonishing, absolutely remarkable defender.

 

If your going to make the claim Marcus Camby is going to be remembered 50 years down the line for his defense, then I give up, because that is dumber than some of the stuff even the biggest Tyson Chandler haters have said.

[whitesoxfan101]

See, I don't give a s*** about this year.  I've always discussed what Chandler can be in the future, which is all that matters.  Right now, he is better than he was last year in terms of rebounding, man defense, passing, court vision, etc.  He will only continue to get better. 

 

And I don't give a s*** about the money, either.  Defense is the name of the game.  Protecting your rim is what it's all about.  When Tyson alters shots and keeps the other team from scoring and getting second-chance opportunities, it's as if he himself scored.  Get it?  The Bulls don't have to make up the points if he stopped his opponent from scoring.  I'm not gonna expect anyone to understand that.  Maybe just a tad too deep. 

 

And think of all the second-chance opportunites that he provides for the Bulls on the offensive end.  Again, maybe it never crosses the average Bulls fan's mind that something like that actually helps the Bulls offense.  He has 60 offensive rebounds in the last 12 games.  He is also one of the best in the NBA at keeping rebounds alive on the offensive end (tapping them to teammates, etc).  His passing has been damn impressive.  He sets picks effectively, etc.

 

So potential and the little things, along with a 3 week stretch of great rebounding and defense, is worth the money Tyson has? Well you have the right to think that, and you do seem pretty smart about basketball, but I will just have to agree to disagree with you on this one. We could go on all day, and I don't feel like it.

[hammerhead johnson]

If your going to make the claim Marcus Camby is going to be remembered 50 years down the line for his defense, then I give up, because that is dumber than some of the stuff even the biggest Tyson Chandler haters have said.

 

He'll be remembered by people who know their basketball. I do suppose that those types are few and far between, though.

[Chisoxfn]

See, I don't give a s*** about this year.  I've always discussed what Chandler can be in the future, which is all that matters.  Right now, he is better than he was last year in terms of rebounding, man defense, passing, court vision, etc.  He will only continue to get better. 

 

And I don't give a s*** about the money, either.  Defense is the name of the game.  Protecting your rim is what it's all about.  When Tyson alters shots and keeps the other team from scoring and getting second-chance opportunities, it's as if he himself scored.  Get it?  The Bulls don't have to make up the points if he stopped his opponent from scoring.  I'm not gonna expect anyone to understand that.  Maybe just a tad too deep. 

 

And think of all the second-chance opportunites that he provides for the Bulls on the offensive end.  Again, maybe it never crosses the average Bulls fan's mind that something like that actually helps the Bulls offense.  He has 60 offensive rebounds in the last 12 games.  He is also one of the best in the NBA at keeping rebounds alive on the offensive end (tapping them to teammates, etc).  His passing has been damn impressive.  He sets picks effectively, etc.

Funny you should mention it, but I've noticed during his stretch that he's been making terrific passes. I never remembered that part of his game so he's definately growing in that regard.

 

Like I said I'd like to see him keep defenses honest by developing a decent mid range jumper and some sort of hook shot (although that'll never happen). And when he gets the ball around 3 point land and no one is guarding him, I'd like him to dribble in and at least make him defend. Hell with his length anytime no one is on him, dribble in and just go up to the rim. No one is going to block him and odds are he's gonna get fouled.

[Chisoxfn]

If your going to make the claim Marcus Camby is going to be remembered 50 years down the line for his defense, then I give up, because that is dumber than some of the stuff even the biggest Tyson Chandler haters have said.

I gotta agree. Maybe if Camby would put up a few healthy seasons. Bruce Bowen will barely go down as a legendary defender and its taken a few championships for that to happen.

 

Obviously Big Ben will go down as a legendary defender.

[whitesoxfan101]

I gotta agree.  Maybe if Camby would put up a few healthy seasons.  Bruce Bowen will barely go down as a legendary defender and its taken a few championships for that to happen. 

 

Obviously Big Ben will go down as a legendary defender.

 

Yep. I can't think of anybody that would go down as a legendary defender other than Big Ben who is as horrible on offense as Tyson is either, so he's got a lot of work to do. Most great defenders also had at least a decent enough offense game to catch your attention.

Edited February 14, 2006 by whitesoxfan101

[whitesoxfan99]

Defensive Legend = One who is remembered 50 years down the line for his defensive prowess

 

I would say that Marcus qualifies without question.  He is an astonishing, absolutely remarkable defender.

 

Marcus Camby won't be remembered 50 years from now for his defense. In order to do that you have to be a part of great teams or be the best defensive player at your position during your career. Camby fits neither of those criteria and his injury problems won't help his case. Legendary defensive players are guys like Bill Russell, Dennis Rodman, and Scottie Pippen not Marcus Camby.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Props to the Knicks for only losing by 28 tonight. I had the Mavs winning by atleast 45.

[qwerty]

I gotta agree.  Maybe if Camby would put up a few healthy seasons.  Bruce Bowen will barely go down as a legendary defender and its taken a few championships for that to happen. 

 

Obviously Big Ben will go down as a legendary defender.

 

I hate bruce bowen. One of the dirtiest players to ever play the game. I saw this gallery with something like 100-150 pictures of him tripping purposely. That was within only a couple year time span too. He also likes to throw elbows alot.

 

I don't know, he is a guy i love to hate.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I hate bruce bowen. One of the dirtiest players to ever play the game. I saw this gallery with something like 100-150 pictures of him tripping purposely. That was within only a couple year time span too. He also likes to throw elbows alot.

 

I don't know, he is a guy i love to hate.

 

You must have really hated the Bad Boys. They had about 5 Bowens.

[qwerty]

You must have really hated the Bad Boys.  They had about 5 Bowens.

 

The whole league had the mentailty back then. There were wars out there. Now the league is full of pussies... but just because of that i don't think that bowen should blatantly trip and elbow people. Getting physical is fine... but he takes it a step farther... too far.