Official NBA Discussion Thread

[whitesoxfan101]

There is so much more to basketball that just scoring, but I agree that it's making baskets that puts asses in seats.  I understand how the business works.

 

While defense rules all without exception, I agree that  guys like Samuel Dalembert and Tyson Chandler are making a little bit too much, as casual fans don't come out to see them.  They want scoring, scoring, and more scoring.  While I pity the fool that thinks along those lines, it's just reality.

 

What?? It's about market dictation sir.....the market doesn't dictate the fact you have to pay a guy 12 million a year for 5 years to just play great defense. You pay scorers that kind of money, and get guys who play great defense for MUCH less. I agree defense is VERY important, but it doesn't cost that kind of money, which is why I consider Tyson's contract to be AWFUL.

[Balta1701]

What??  It's about market dictation sir.....the market doesn't dictate the fact you have to pay a guy 12 million a year for 5 years to just play great defense.  You pay scorers that kind of money, and get guys who play great defense for MUCH less.  I agree defense is VERY important, but it doesn't cost that kind of money, which is why I consider Tyson's contract to be AWFUL.

My only question on Tyson's contract is this one...was there any other team prepared to offer him that much last season?

[whitesoxfan101]

My only question on Tyson's contract is this one...was there any other team prepared to offer him that much last season?

 

It's the NBA, a league with the dumbest GM's of any sport by far, so probably....doesn't make the Bulls paying him that paper for that period of time any smarter though.

[hammerhead johnson]

What??  It's about market dictation sir.....the market doesn't dictate the fact you have to pay a guy 12 million a year for 5 years to just play great defense.  You pay scorers that kind of money, and get guys who play great defense for MUCH less.  I agree defense is VERY important, but it doesn't cost that kind of money, which is why I consider Tyson's contract to be AWFUL.

 

Have you looked at some of the contracts given out to big men lately on the strength of defense and rebounding (whether it be upside or what they have are currently accomplishing)?

 

Guys who can rebound and play defense in the paint have been getting huge contracts. Case in point: Slow-footed Adonal Foyle, Samuel Dalembert, Tyson Chandler, Ben Wallace and Joe Przybilla this summer, Marcus Camby and Kenyon Martin to a lesser extent because they can score at a near competent level, etc.

 

You're talking about perimiter and mid-range defenders with little to no scoring punch like Trenton Hassell, Raja Bell, Desmond Mason, Eric Williams, Earl Watson, Chris Duhon, Marcus Banks, etc. They can be had for less due to "market dictation", sir.

 

Are you an NBA fan, or pretty much just a Bulls fan?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

There is so much more to basketball that just scoring, but I agree that it's making baskets that puts asses in seats.  I understand how the business works.

 

While defense rules all without exception, I agree that  guys like Samuel Dalembert and Tyson Chandler are making a little bit too much, as casual fans don't come out to see them.  They want scoring, scoring, and more scoring.  While I pity the fool that thinks along those lines, it's just reality.

 

I disagree with your statement and agree that tyson is way overpaid.

 

You're making an unfair comparison since Dalembert is actually earning his pay. He's top ten in rebounding and top three in blocks while tyson is...umm...well, he's not doing much of anything lately...

[qwerty]

Chandler is a pussy and there is no defending him until he can grab 8 rebounds in two combined games within the next year.

 

That of course does not change my stance on curry as his season is nothing to write home about either. He still has the same putrid defense.

[whitesoxfan101]

Have you looked at some of the contracts given out to big men lately on the strength of defense and rebounding (whether it be upside or what they have are currently accomplishing)? 

 

Guys who can rebound and play defense in the paint have been getting huge contracts.  Case in point: Slow-footed Adonal Foyle, Samuel Dalembert, Tyson Chandler, Ben Wallace and Joe Przybilla this summer, Marcus Camby and Kenyon Martin to a lesser extent because they can score at a near competent level, etc.

 

You're talking about perimiter and mid-range defenders with little to no scoring punch like Trenton Hassell, Raja Bell, Desmond Mason, Eric Williams, Earl Watson, Chris Duhon, Marcus Banks, etc.  They can be had for less due to "market dictation", sir. 

 

Are you an NBA fan, or pretty much just a Bulls fan?

 

You just lost the argument by comparing Ben Wallace, Marcus Camby, Kenyon Martin, and eve Samuel Dalembert to Tyson Freaking Chandler. Dalembert at least gives a damn and puts up double doubles almost every night, Martin and Camby are all star level when healthy, and Ben Wallace actually plays defense and rebounds EVERY GAME, not 3 times a month like Tyson. Plus, Big Ben has all star game appearances, an NBA Title ring, and has won NBA Defensive POY. No comparsion in any regard.

[qwerty]

Btw, soxtalk hated dalembert last year now?

[SSH2005]

Btw, soxtalk hated dalembert last year now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You liked Chandler and Dalembert last year while some people disliked Chandler and Dalembert last year. No one is right 100% of the time.

[hammerhead johnson]

You just lost the argument by comparing Ben Wallace, Marcus Camby, Kenyon Martin, and eve Samuel Dalembert to Tyson Freaking Chandler. 

 

You must have missed this part of my post:

 

Have you looked at some of the contracts given out to big men lately on the strength of defense and rebounding (whether it be upside or what they have are currently accomplishing)?

 

And who prefaces something with you just lost the argument after their point about "market dication" is proven to be inaccurate because of the sizeable difference between what big men demand vs. what perimiter and mid-range defenders demand? Who does that?

 

Dalembert at least gives a damn and puts up double doubles almost every night

 

And last year, Jim O'Brien wasn't using Dalembert correctly, and guess what? People were talking s***, and I was defending him the entire time.

 

And Dalembert "gives a damn", unlike Tyson, right?

 

Plus, Big Ben has all star game appearances, an NBA Title ring, and has won NBA Defensive POY.  No comparsion in any regard.

 

This is why I asked you if you were an NBA fan as opposed to a Bulls fan. Do you know Big Ben's history? He bounced around from team to team before he landed in Detroit. HE WASN'T BEING UTILIZED PROPERLY. Ain't that a strange concept? Read between the lines. Chandler is playing out of position. He ain't getting minutes. Last year, as a member of the "closing squad" that went on defensive runs in the 4th quarter, Tyson was really starting to take off. We didn't hold teams to the lowest FG% against in the NBA on the strength of our good looks, now did we? Chandler was a huge part of that.

[qwerty]

You liked Chandler and Dalembert last year while some people disliked Chandler and Dalembert last year.  No one is right 100% of the time.

 

People hated him last year... all i was getting to.

[Balta1701]

This is why I asked you if you were an NBA fan as opposed to a Bulls fan.  Do you know Big Ben's history?  He bounced around from team to team before he landed in Detroit.  HE WASN'T BEING UTILIZED PROPERLY.  Ain't that a strange concept?  Read between the lines.  Chandler is playing out of position.  He ain't getting minutes.  Last year, as a member of the "closing squad" that went on defensive runs in the 4th quarter, Tyson was really starting to take off.  We didn't hold teams to the lowest FG% against in the NBA on the strength of our good looks, now did we?  Chandler was a huge part of that.

I think I agree with you on the "Chandler isn't being used properly and we need another big guy" angle, but I think there are more issues with Tyson right now, in particular his health and conditioning last summer. He's come out and admitted he didn't work as hard last summer as the year before because I believe he was getting married and didn't want to get hurt before signing a contract, and I think that has shown through this season too.

 

The 1 thing I keep telling myself about Chandler though, is that he's still only 23. He's got a full contract to play through before he would really reach his "Prime years". He's younger than me. He may still very well have his best years ahead of him...especially if the team builds with him in mind by adding size/power in the middle.

 

I still can't help but remember that Jermaine O'Neal really didn't start breaking out as a quality player until his 6th year. This is what happens when you draft a high schooler...it takes a while for them to grow into the part. I'm just going to hope Tyson does grow into something.

[hammerhead johnson]

I think I agree with you on the "Chandler isn't being used properly and we need another big guy" angle, but I think there are more issues with Tyson right now, in particular his health and conditioning last summer.  He's come out and admitted he didn't work as hard last summer as the year before because I believe he was getting married and didn't want to get hurt before signing a contract, and I think that has shown through this season too.

 

The 1 thing I keep telling myself about Chandler though, is that he's still only 23.  He's got a full contract to play through before he would really reach his "Prime years".  He's younger than me.  He may still very well have his best years ahead of him...especially if  the team builds with him in mind by adding size/power in the middle.

 

I still can't help but remember that Jermaine O'Neal really didn't start breaking out as a quality player until his 6th year.  This is what happens when you draft a high schooler...it takes a while for them to grow into the part.  I'm just going to hope Tyson does grow into something.

 

I couldn't have said it better.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

  He's got a full contract to play through before he would really reach his "Prime years".

 

He's being paid like a player who needs to perform NOW.

 

I still can't help but remember that Jermaine O'Neal really didn't start breaking out as a quality player until his 6th year.  This is what happens when you draft a high schooler...it takes a while for them to grow into the part.  I'm just going to hope Tyson does grow into something.

 

Bad example. Jermaine was stuck at the end of the bench of a deep, veteran Blazers team. tyson, on the other hand, has gotten his opportunities, and their has been no consistent flashes of brilliance to show me that he is capable of being the superstar some of you keep trying to tell yourselves and everyone else that he will be. I still see a weak player (and injury-prone as of late) with NO knowledge on offense and subpar basketball IQ (the mistakes he makes baffle me sometimes).

 

But if tyson can be Dalembert-like, I'll be ecstatic.

[Chisoxfn]

There is so much more to basketball that just scoring, but I agree that it's making baskets that puts asses in seats.  I understand how the business works.

 

While defense rules all without exception, I agree that  guys like Samuel Dalembert and Tyson Chandler are making a little bit too much, as casual fans don't come out to see them.  They want scoring, scoring, and more scoring.  While I pity the fool that thinks along those lines, it's just reality.

Don't even compare Dalembert and Chandler. Dalembert is a superior player right now.

[hammerhead johnson]

Don't even compare Dalembert and Chandler.  Dalembert is a superior player right now.

 

Right, but that wasn't my point. Dalembert got a huge contract this past offseason on the strength of tools, not accomplishments. The same can be said for Tyson Chandler. Now Sammy is taking off, and you can rest assured that I'm happy about that, as I've been backing him since the 2003-2004 season in the face of plenty of skepticism. But people here know that. Or maybe not, I dunno.

[hammerhead johnson]

Paul to start for Hornets against Pistons

 

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) -- New Orleans rookie point guard Chris Paul will start for the Hornets against Detroit on Tuesday night despite a torn ligament in his thumb, coach Byron Scott said.

 

Paul tore the ligament on the inside of his right thumb Friday during the Hornets' 90-80 win over Portland. He missed the Hornets' last game, a 101-93 loss at Atlanta on Saturday.

 

Paul is the NBA leader among rookies in scoring, assists, steals and minutes. He was expected to be out at least two weeks.

 

Paul participated in the Hornets' shootaround at the Ford Center on Tuesday morning and Scott made the decision to play Paul afterward.

 

"He's just a very competitive young man who wants to play," Scott said before the game.

 

Scott said he was "a little on edge" about his decision, but that team doctors told him that Paul couldn't damage the thumb any further by playing.

 

"I had no thoughts about playing him ... until this morning," Scott said.

 

The Hornets' first-round draft pick, Paul entered the game averaging 16.3 points, 7.4 assists and 2.2 steals per game. He also averaged 5.8 rebounds.

 

Do you believe this f***ing guy? He was supposed to be out for at least two weeks with a torn thumb ligament. And now he's back after missing only one game? Unreal.

[Spiff]

Do you believe this f***ing guy?  He was supposed to be out for at least two weeks with a torn thumb ligament.  And now he's back after missing only one game?  Unreal.

 

talk about someone people hated last year. but not me, i was a huge fan, you can look it up! if you can figure out how.

[greasywheels121]

It'd be awhile until anything could ever happen because of cap issues, but Brad Miller wants to play for the Pacers again.

 

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...431/1004/SPORTS

[whitesoxfan101]

You must have missed this part of my post:

 

Have you looked at some of the contracts given out to big men lately on the strength of defense and rebounding (whether it be upside or what they have are currently accomplishing)?

 

And who prefaces something with you just lost the argument after their point about "market dication" is proven to be inaccurate because of the sizeable difference between what big men demand vs. what perimiter and mid-range defenders demand?  Who does that?

And last year, Jim O'Brien wasn't using Dalembert correctly, and guess what?  People were talking s***, and I was defending him the entire time.

 

And Dalembert "gives a damn", unlike Tyson, right? 

This is why I asked you if you were an NBA fan as opposed to a Bulls fan.  Do you know Big Ben's history?  He bounced around from team to team before he landed in Detroit.  HE WASN'T BEING UTILIZED PROPERLY.  Ain't that a strange concept?  Read between the lines.  Chandler is playing out of position.  He ain't getting minutes.  Last year, as a member of the "closing squad" that went on defensive runs in the 4th quarter, Tyson was really starting to take off.  We didn't hold teams to the lowest FG% against in the NBA on the strength of our good looks, now did we?  Chandler was a huge part of that.

 

These are all very valid points, and you obviously know what your talking about (including Tyson being out of position) but I simply don't think you give a max contract (is it max? I think it is...or is very close) to a guy who is only a factor on one end of the floor, or half of the game. That's my opinion, and regardless of what arguments you make (although valid) my mind won't be changed.

 

Oh, and Chris Paul is a GREAT player, and apparently tough, but he's still a f***ing douche. Between his b****ing to the refs and whining all game in Champaign because things weren't going his way, and his PATHETIC punching Julius Hodge in the sack during a close game to try and get him out, he proved to be a piece of s*** last year. BUT he's still a great PLAYER.

[Spiff]

Thank god ESPN got in on the NBA tv contract so they could warehouse it on wednesdays and show college ball instead. The old schedule of TNT Wednesday-TBS Thursday-TNT Friday was 100 times better.

[WHarris1]

The old schedule of TNT Wednesday-TBS Thursday-TNT Friday was 100 times better.

^^^Yeah that^^^

[greasywheels121]

Thank god ESPN got in on the NBA tv contract so they could warehouse it on wednesdays and show college ball instead.  The old schedule of TNT Wednesday-TBS Thursday-TNT Friday was 100 times better.

 

I love the amount of college b-ball ESPN shows. However, I agree, I used to love when TBS and TNT had the back to back nights of the NBA. How long is this contract for that ESPN has with the NBA? Maybe Turner would try to buy it all back.

[DBAHO]

Al Harrington is saying tonight that the Pacers are going to trade Ron Artest for Corey Maggette.

 

I'd love to get in on the deal and offer Francis to the Pacers for Tinsley and Wilcox or Granger. We need young pieces, because we're going nowhere at the moment. Build around Jameer Nelson (who's been great so far this season) and Dwight Howard.

[Chisoxfn]

Al Harrington is saying tonight that the Pacers are going to trade Ron Artest for Corey Maggette.

 

I'd love to get in on the deal and offer Francis to the Pacers for Tinsley and Wilcox or Granger. We need young pieces, because we're going nowhere at the moment. Build around Jameer Nelson (who's been great so far this season) and Dwight Howard.

How would Harrington know? That would be a really good deal for the Clips, plus Brand and Artest were good friends IIRC. The Clips could use his toughness.