Jon Garland signs a 3 year extension

[Felix]

When did JR open up the purse strings?  Doesn't seem like the same guy from a few years ago.

Championships do wonders on people.

[BlackBetsy]

Question:  If Contreras pitches for the Sox throughout 2006 and then leaves as a free agent, do we still get draft picks?  If so, do we know how many and what round they would be in?

 

The Sox wouldn't. Since Contreras has had fewer than 6 years of major league service time, he wouldn't even be eligible for free agency after '06 EXCEPT for the fact that his contract with the White Sox (originally signed by the Yankees) requires the White Sox to release him as of November 15, 2006 (or thereabouts) if they have not re-signed him to another deal. If you release a player and he is signed by another team, you don't get draft picks.

 

The Yankees just went through this this offseason with Hideki Matsui.

[103 mph screwball]

I haven't seen this posted yet in this thread and I think I've read most of it, so here's a KW quote appearing in theESPN.com piece on JG:

 

QUOTE

"Our ultimate desire ... was to keep this team intact," Williams said. "It may turn out that someone overwhelms us with an offer for Jose."

 

 

I translate that quote as KW saying that JC needs to sign an extension at less than market value in order to play for a winner and have fun. I think JC will decide that money isn't everything. Garland did.

 

Bmac can be valuable out of the pen next year. Even more important, he is insurance that even if any of the Sox starters (God forbid) get injured or exhausted, the Sox STILL will have the best rotation in baseball.

 

I can't see trading JC. He put the team on his back the 2nd half last year and was the post season ACE. I feel comfortable that KW feels the same way and this trade talk is leverage to get an extension done. Like Garland's trade talk apparently was.

 

KW is going for another Championship. He's not going to worry about his 5th starter because he will have 6. That may seem excessive to some teams, but not to World Champions.

[greg775]

Awesome.

I'd rather have Jon than Contreras only because of age.

I didn't like the idea of trading Jon after the kind of year he had and the fact

we robbed him from the Cubs.

Great job again KW.

[Big Hurtin]

BTW, just my two cents, but this makes me hate the Vazquez trade now.

 

In my mind, it's hard to separate the two. The reason being is that when they made the trade for Vasquez, the negotiations were going slow with Garland and Contreras. The deal was not made only at face value (player A for player B ), but to also gain leverage in their negotiations with their own guys. This deal may have not been done if the Vasquez trade didn't happen.

Edited December 29, 2005 by Big Hurtin

[knightni]

Poor Twinks fans...

[whitesoxfan101]

Poor Twinks fans... 

 

Owned!!!!!

 

 

*End overuse of faces*

[YASNY]

My take on all of this:

 

Buehrle,Garland,Garcia,Vazquez are all locked up through '07. Excellent!

 

McCarthy almost certainly will not be traded. Young, cheap and loaded with talent. He'll be the anchor that is here when all the others are gone.

 

Contreras could be traded, but I believe we'll keep him. McCarthy will work out of the pen and spot start (without hurting his developement any).

 

Kenny's got 4 starter and BMac locked up through '07. Keeping Jose for '06 will be for the purpose of attempting to repeat. He'll supplement the bullpen some other way than by trading off a valuable starting pitcher.

[knightni]

Probably the main reason why he hasn't replaced Vizcaino.

[3E8]

While it may not hurt it, does anyone else think using McCarthy out of the pen unnecessarily retards his development?

[DBAHO]

I saw this story this morning at work and I was like, WHOA. Totally did not see this one coming at all. But I think it's a pretty fair deal in terms of the current marketplace for starting pitching. Maybe we could have a team option for a 4th season on there, but I'm not complaining. Let's just hope we keep seeing more of the Jon Garland from 2005 instead of the Jon Garland before that.

 

And on fathom's take on the Vazquez trade and not liking, I'm sort of heading down that path now. Don't get me wrong I love having 5 damn good starters around for this rotation (I'm assuming Coop is gonna fix Vaz) but you're investing about $10M a season in him when you could have B-Mac doing that for a lot cheaper, and still have Chris Young and Luis Vizcaino, and possibly focus on a Miguel Tejada trade.

 

But we shouldn't complain about the job KW has done. He's certainly enhanced himself in the trade market, but more importantly, he's doing a FANTASTIC job at getting guys whether they're unrestricted FA's, eligible for arbitration etc. locked to up long - term deal's and help keep this nucleus intact.

 

And props to Jerry Reinsdorf as well. He's definitely kept up his end of the bargain in terms of payroll to allow KW to make the moves that he has.

[YASNY]

While it may not hurt it, does anyone else think using McCarthy out of the pen unnecessarily retards his development?

 

Not one iota.

[DBAHO]

Not one iota.

See Danny Haren.

[Steff]

He just finished his 5th full year and he had about 1/2 yr. in 2000.

 

 

 

Yea those 15 starts and +6 ERA were memorable.

 

I corrected myself.

[southsider2k5]

If you think Javier Vazquez is a #1 starter, you are the one who hasn't been paying attention the last year and a half sir.

 

Look at Contreras's 2004 and first half of 2005 and tell me what a year and a half is worth again. Vazquez has the arm, he proved that while in MTL and starting in NY. He is much younger than Contreras was at the time, and now Javier is coming into an ideal situation with a great pitching coach and a latin clubhouse. He is ripe for a turnaround and has the ability to do so.

[Guest JimH]

Yea those 15 starts and +6 ERA were memorable.

 

I corrected myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was pointing out that he had 5 full years of service in reference to the no trade clause being plausible.

[S720]

Look at Contreras's 2004 and first half of 2005 and tell me what a year and a half is worth again.  Vazquez has the arm, he proved that while in MTL and starting in NY.  He is much younger than Contreras was at the time, and now Javier is coming into an ideal situation with a great pitching coach and a latin clubhouse.  He is ripe for a turnaround and has the ability to do so.

 

Folks, I really don't know now. Since Dick Allen mentioned about Garland is supposed to receive $7 or $8 mil in arbitration for next year anyway, this means Garland's 2-year extension worths $11 per year for 2007 and 2008. I personally think that is too much for Garland.

 

Between Contreras and Garland, I prefer Contreras. First, Contreras has better stuff than Garland. Contreras IS the #1 starting pitcher as he has shown in the playoff and the World Series. Garland only flourishes in his 4th or 5th position. Between Contreras and Garland, who do you think should be allocated as #1 or #2 on our rotation? WITHOUT A DOUBT, Contreras! By the end of 2008, Garland might walk away anyway. I certainly don't see us keeping Garland past 2008 if his monetary demand is equal or higher than it is now.

 

Don't know what Kenny is thinking! But this offseason is getting more interested...

[Steff]

I was pointing out that he had 5 full years of service in reference to the no trade clause being plausible.

 

 

 

I'm aware. I was pointing out that if you had read a few more posts you would have seen that I corrected myself.

[WCSox]

Why?  We're going to have McCarthy for the next five-six years at a minimal salary, and the Sox are going to need that somewhere on the team -- good production for little price.  We're not the Yankees just yet -- we can't afford to be paying each guy in the rotation eight figures...  you just can't do that. 

 

Your Kip Wells comparison, BTW, sucks.  B-Mac reached the big leauges a full years sooner than Wells, averaged about a full three more K's/9 than Wells in the minors, walked two less guys than Wells per nine, and had an ERA a half a run lower than Wells'.  Apples and oranges, really...

 

I'm sorry that you don't like my comparison, but I don't really give a crap.

 

McCarthy has a hell of a lot of promise, but he hasn't proven jack in the majors. He's pitched a whole 67 major league innings. Wooooo! :rolly

 

If KW wanted to make a deal for Tejada (and I'd prefer that he didn't), B-Mac would be the guy to get rid of. Why would the O's (who clearly aren't contenders right now) want Contreras, who'll cost them $8 million this year, hasn't been consistent in the majors, and is in the twilight of his career? Or would you prefer that the Sox trade Beuhrle?

 

I don't want to see McCarthy go either, but I'd trade him before most of our other starters who've actually been successful over the course of a 200-inning season (except for Contreras, who's old and is a FA next year).

 

If I were KW, I'd stand pat and see how things unfold. If we're not getting good production at the plate, I'd dangle Contreras as trade bait in July. If the O's were willing to part with Tejada for, say, B-Mac and Uribe, I'd probably go for it. We're trying to win NOW, not two years down the road.

Edited December 29, 2005 by WCSox

[RockRaines]

Don't know what Kenny is thinking!  But this offseason is getting more interested...

im sure he is thinking that Jon is 26 years old, and is signed for below market value. If you compare the stats of the two pitchers last year, Jon had the better year. In fact his stats are extremely close to the colon's who won the cy young.

[Guest JimH]

I'm aware. I was pointing out that if you had read a few more posts you would have seen that I corrected myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I saw the post and responded, it's not like I was trying to rub your face in it Steff. I saw your post, looked up the stats, and posted.

[RockRaines]

Garland was named AL pitcher of the month for April after going 4-0 with a 1.80 ERA, and he threw 23 consecutive scoreless innings from April 20 to May 6. He made two postseason starts, going 1-0 with a 2.25 ERA, including a complete-game victory against the Los Angeles Angels in Game 3 of the AL Championship Series. He posted a no-decision in Game 3 of the World Series in Houston, allowing four runs (two earned) in seven innings

 

Sounds to me like his deal is a bargain. Much better than the 55-60 million dollars he would have gotten as an FA.

[Rowand44]

Folks, I really don't know now.  Since Dick Allen mentioned about Garland is supposed to receive $7 or $8 mil in arbitration for next year anyway, this means Garland's 2-year extension worths $11 per year for 2007 and 2008.  I personally think that is too much for Garland. 

 

Then you haven't followed the pitching market very well the last two offseasons.

[Steff]

I saw the post and responded, it's not like I was trying to rub your face in it Steff.  I saw your post, looked up the stats, and posted.

 

 

I didn't say you were Jim..

 

I simply saw your post and responded.

[Balta1701]

McCarthy has a hell of a lot of promise, but he hasn't proven jack in the majors.  He's pitched a whole 67 major league innings.  Wooooo!  :rolly

He hasn't shown as much as say, a Johan Santana has, but given that he's only pitched 67 innings, he's probably proven as much as any pitcher could. See: Dominating performances against Boston, Texas, Minnesota, Cleveland coming down the stretch.