Jose Contreras's Demands

[Wanne]

BRUUUUUUUUUCE Levine stated that there is a lot of interest in Contreras, and that he thought the Phillies had Abreau on the table for Contreras at one point. 

 

That's huge in itself that he thinks. Where's he pullin this stuff outta?!?

[knightni]

Can the Sox afford Abreu?

 

Are they moving Dye with Contreras then?

[Wanne]

I say hold Count until ST or the trading deadline, then get some great value for him when teams are most desperate to win now.

 

I'd say this is a pretty likely scenerio. Protection for injuries, slides, etc...

I can't see anybody really giving up too much for Count right now with teams knowing the Sox will try to move him.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Bedard 2005

> 5 IP: 15 GS, 25 ER 1.67 ER per start

< 6 IP: 9 GS, 38 ER 4.22 ER per start

 

<sigh> It's so like a White Sox fan to focus on the negative & ignore the positive. The attention getter here is that he avg'd 1.67 ER per start over 15 starts. That means when he's on he's dominant. He was on nearly 2/3rd's of his starts. If you extend it to 33 starts you are looking at an avg of 18 dominant starts over a full season.

 

It goes w/out saying that the O's would not complete this trade unless they could lock up Contreras to a multi-year deal. They presently have more money to spend than the White Sox to get that done.

[JUGGERNAUT]

The Uribe question in this deal is the biggest & easiest to overlook. What was the biggest difference maker in 2005 for Garland & Contreras? Mechanics, Mental, or Uribe? Did they have less jams in 2005 than 2004? Did they get out of less jams in 2005 than 2004? Just how many of those jams ended with spectacular plays by Uribe? Can Tejada be expected to make those plays?

 

Hopefully Kenny has answered those questions or at least has his assistants look at enough film to answer them. If the answers all point to Uribe then it goes w/out saying he should be a keeper. From my own personal experience I can recall at least 30 games where Uribe made a run saving jam ending play. With the White Sox margin of difference being a run or two in most games these were difference makers.

[The Ginger Kid]

Agree. And the guy has a history, unlike Jon to date, of getting the job done.

 

here here.

 

I say even if he chooses not to sign a new deal you keep him. The Count was simply the best pitcher in the 2nd half and a stud in the playoffs. Make another championship run with him and worry about it next November.

[Beauty35thStreet]

I don't know if I agree with that assessment on Contreras with him not reaching full potential before. Contreras has a history in Cuba and I give that creedence.

 

Although I agree with you saying that it's a lot to expect both to be as good as they were and to carry it until 2008.

 

While both Garland and Contreras are talented and can both easily repeat what they did in 2005, I would hope the Sox avoid signing Contreras for the money he's asking.

 

Prior to 2005, neither of these guys ever reached their full potential. Now perhaps they finally have figured themselves out and will be good to go for a few years, but for a team to give three year deals for nearly $10 mil a year each to two guys who are coming off their breakout season ... that just isn't logical.

 

Putting faith in one of them to never revert back to their old selves is one thing, but thinking both of them are going to repeat '05 and do it through '08 is iffy.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I think KW should offer Jose a two year extension @$22M ($11M per).

[RME JICO]

Bedard 2005

> 5 IP: 15 GS, 25 ER    1.67 ER per start

 

It's so like a White Sox fan to focus on the negative & ignore the positive.    The attention getter here is that he avg'd 1.67 ER per start over 15 starts.  That means when he's on he's dominant.  He was on nearly 2/3rd's of his starts.  If you extend it to 33 starts you are looking at an avg of 18 dominant starts over a full season.

 

18 dominant starts IF he is healthy. That is a big IF. He had completely different numbers before and after his injury, so until he proves that he can get back to his early 2005 form, he is a huge risk.

[kevin57]

When Kenny acquired Vazquez he sent an unofficial but very real "memo" to Garland and Contreras, saying it was time for them "to get serious" about a contract. I thought Contreras would be the one who would read the tea leaves, but to my surprise, Garland was the first to ink an agreement. Contreras, who has said he loves Chicago and wants to die here, blah, blah, blah, will now do so for what is reported to be a price tag too high.

 

Look for Contreras to be dealt unless he comes down a whole lot from what he's asking...especially in terms of years.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I'm not a proponent of dealign for Tejada given the potential price but the defensive dropoff from Uribe to Tejada isn't large. I'd say Uribe is slightly better but I think its a mild difference at most

[Adam G]

The Uribe question in this deal is the biggest & easiest to overlook.  What was the biggest difference maker in 2005 for Garland & Contreras?  Mechanics, Mental, or Uribe?  Did they have less jams in 2005 than 2004?  Did they get out of less jams in 2005 than 2004?  Just how many of those jams ended with spectacular plays by Uribe?  Can Tejada be expected to make those plays?

I'll take AJ for $500, Alex.

[GoodAsGould]

I'll take AJ for $500, Alex.

 

Id say for Garland Mental, Coop, and AJ are what helped the most and for Contreras Mechanics, Mental, Coop, and AJ were what helped the most. Uribe's defense while helped was prob the smallest denominator in factoring in their improvements.

[Adam G]

Id say for Garland Mental, Coop, and AJ are what helped the most and for Contreras Mechanics, Mental, Coop, and AJ were what helped the most.  Uribe's defense while helped was prob the smallest denominator in factoring in their improvements.

It was just interesting how far the pitching staff came last year, both starters and relievers. To me it seems like AJ was the one common denominator.

[greg775]

This may sound stupid as I know how well he pitched, but I don't think he's worth 11 or 12 mill a year. No way.

Do you think he's told the truth about his age?

That's a factor too.

I'm a Jose fan obviously after what he did for us, s*** we wouldn't have made the playoffs probably without him, but I'd rather see him go than Jon for some reason.

[DBAHO]

This may sound stupid as I know how well he pitched, but I don't think he's worth 11 or 12 mill a year. No way.

Pretty much with what's happened with the market, Jose will easily get that kind of deal IF he became available in the FA market right now. A.J Burnett and Kevin Millwood may not be $11 or $12M pitchers, but they're going to get that amount of money, because teams are DESPERATE for good quality starting pitching.

 

And that's why it's quite amazing we're in the situation we're in right now.