Milkman delivers Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 09:27 PM) Very true. I'm happy if the Sox get Tejada. I'm happy if the Sox keep their pitching. I can't lose. I think it's just that I feel more comfortable with having the pitching depth and a seemingly pretty good offense than I do with a pitching staff with little depth and a better offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 06:40 PM) so the way i understand it the white sox have a few clear advantages in the tejada talks. 1. we seem to be the only team offering a ss in return for tejada. 2. we are not trying to cripple baltimore with payroll add-ons. 3. the count seems to be the second best (or best if you hate prior) pitcher offered. 4. the sox are not in the AL East. 5. tejada wants traded to a contendor. 6. arnie munoz was just rated the best prospect in baseball by baseball america. I'm confused on part 6. Otherwise I agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 07:20 PM) Jas, couldnt they leave him as a player to be named later if there was a timing issue, and then complete the deal officially after the term was complete. Often times you can go that route, but I think there is a limit on how long a player can be a PTBNL and in this case that would be one long time for that to happen. I always forget the rules when it comes to this things. I have a couple different variations in my mind and I forget which is the right one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhillegas Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 09:36 PM) I'm confused on part 6. Otherwise I agree with you. yeah, part 6 was a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 07:40 PM) yeah, part 6 was a joke. Ah good. I didn't nkow if maybe you meant to say some other name there or who knows. But I agree, lets pass that info to Boston Gammons. I like the idea of them thinking Munoz is a can't miss stud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Munoz and Uribe for Tejada and a prospect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 10:45 PM) Munoz and Uribe for Tejada and a prospect Ah hell.. forget Uribe in that scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 The Red Sox reportedly are offering left fielder Manny Ramirez and right-hander Matt Clement for Tejada From the Trib. Thats a pretty damn good offer assuming Bmore is willing to add the payroll (and I think they are). Clement has good stuff and he stunk after getting drilled with a baseball in the 2nd half. Before that he was pitching quite well and will help there rotation. And than there is Ramirez, who is in my opinion the best run producer in baseball. Obviously this has to do with freeing up payroll but talent wise (and salary/attitude asside) Manny >>> Miggy and than to add Clement to it, I think this is the deal Bmore makes. They improve the offense and pitching staff in one fell swoop and Angelos has never had problems with adding payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 09:48 PM) From the Trib. Thats a pretty damn good offer assuming Bmore is willing to add the payroll (and I think they are). Clement has good stuff and he stunk after getting drilled with a baseball in the 2nd half. Before that he was pitching quite well and will help there rotation. And than there is Ramirez, who is in my opinion the best run producer in baseball. Obviously this has to do with freeing up payroll but talent wise (and salary/attitude asside) Manny >>> Miggy and than to add Clement to it, I think this is the deal Bmore makes. They improve the offense and pitching staff in one fell swoop and Angelos has never had problems with adding payroll. I think Clement was starting to suck before he got hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 We'd better be careful, somebody in the media may use that as their next story and make a fool of themselves. AM 1000's Levine now reports that the Sox deal is centered around top prospect Munoz but the Cubs are still the frontrunners and the Sox are broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 09:50 PM) I think Clement was starting to suck before he got hit. Yeah, I just checked and, as far as I can tell, his ERA when he got hit in the head was 4.43. That's pretty bad, and it looks like the ERA just was just growing for a while. I think it's more likely that he came from the NL, had a few decent (not even very good) months his first time through the AL, and then everybody figured him out. I doubt he ever is actually good in the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 02:40 AM) so the way i understand it the white sox have a few clear advantages in the tejada talks. 1. we seem to be the only team offering a ss in return for tejada. 2. we are not trying to cripple baltimore with payroll add-ons. 3. the count seems to be the second best (or best if you hate prior) pitcher offered. 4. the sox are not in the AL East. 5. tejada wants traded to a contendor. 6. arnie munoz was just rated the best prospect in baseball by baseball america. Whoa whoa whoa - is #6 for real? I'm seriously doubting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(SEALgep @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 10:13 PM) Whoa whoa whoa - is #6 for real? I'm seriously doubting it. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 02:52 AM) I hope nobody gets me wrong, though. I love the idea of having possibly the best SS in baseball on the Sox. He's great defensively and offensively, and he seems like a nice guy. I just don't like the steroid talk about him. He was named as a possibility in Canseco's book, and Palmeiro pointed a finger at him. I'm sure Palmeiro did it just so he can push the blame on someone else, but I also believe he chose Tejada for a reason. And then I don't want ship off Uribe. The guy dropped Boras and signed a good deal with the Sox. He plays hard as hell, and might even be a better defender than Tejada. He almost single-handedly ended the World Series for the Sox on top of that. I don't like getting attached to players, but after this possibly scenario, the Sox have replaced a whole lot of last year's team in one offseason. I'm all for improving the team, but that just worries me a lot. It would also remove all of the depth from the rotation and take a pitcher from the bullpen. I love this trade and I dislike it at the same time. Canseco never said Tejada did steroids, he said he didn't know either way. He did accuse some people without ever witnessing them taking steriods, but Tejada was not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(SEALgep @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 10:18 PM) Canseco never said Tejada did steroids, he said he didn't know either way. He did accuse some people without ever witnessing them taking steriods, but Tejada was not one of them. As I said, he named him as a possibility. He didn't say he did steroids directly. I read the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:20 AM) As I said, he named him as a possibility. He didn't say he did steroids directly. I read the book. Naming someone as a possibility doesnt do anything for me. Either you know or dont know and in Tejada's case he doesnt know. He also said Clemens is a possibility so... Herbert Perry was also named as a possibility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 10:38 PM) Naming someone as a possibility doesnt do anything for me. Either you know or dont know and in Tejada's case he doesnt know. He also said Clemens is a possibility so... Herbert Perry was also named as a possibility NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Seriously, I know it doesn't prove anything, but he said what a lot of people think. And you have to believe he had some inside knowledge. And then when Palmeiro went and blamed him, I believe he did it because he knew that Tejada juiced and figured he'd be a good guy to blame. But, I really don't want to turn this into a steroid discussion. Let's just drop this one and stay on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Wasnt Tejada's thing that he gave him not even a steroid. I thought the league looked at it and it was a legal supplement that Tejada offered him anyways... or maybe im completely wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Can of Worms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(knightni @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 09:37 PM) Can of Worms Whether or not he actually did them, that can of worms is the 3rd biggest reason I don't want himi...the first being McCarthy, and the 2nd being the possibility that he quit on his team last year. After the fact that the White Sox were by far the most honorable team in the league with regards to Steroids (we had Frank, and our team was the one that tried to force the league into more strict testing in 2003 by refusing to support the sham testing program), and you've got something that i don't even remotely want linked to our franchise. If there's any question in KW's mind about Tejada's past, I hope he won't touch him. Tejada better convince KW that he's clean before he can convince me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Tejada doesnt need to convince anyone because there is no evidence against him lol..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 10:58 PM) Tejada doesnt need to convince anyone because there is no evidence against him lol..... Just like Jose Canseco didn't need to convince anyone in 1988 that those Red Sox fans chanting "Steroids" against him were wrong, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 01:29 AM) Just like Jose Canseco didn't need to convince anyone in 1988 that those Red Sox fans chanting "Steroids" against him were wrong, correct? I guess innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to certain people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 02:59 AM) McCarthy as the long man out of the pen may be overkill. KW will need to get a starter for the long man spot if a deal goes down just in case of injury. The sox could be set with Sean Tracey being the long man in the bullpen. He'll be given the shot in spring if a of a SP trade is made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 10:53 PM) The sox could be set with Sean Tracey being the long man in the bullpen. He'll be given the shot in spring if a of a SP trade is made. I know some people like Tracey because he's got some good stuff, but I don't particularly feel confident having a guy who had a 4.07 ERA with a 106/76 K/BB ratio at a real pitchers park in our bullpen. I don't mind him battling it out for the position in ST, but the Sox should definitely bring in a couple of guys with MLC's, but they've already done that with Tim Redding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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