The Count possibly to the Astros?

[Guest JimH]

My view:  Taveras hit .291, stole 34 bases, and played well defensively in CF last year.  His bat is nothing special and his OBP isn't that impressive, but he's shown that he can handle major-league pitching and is far from a liability at the plate.  His base-running and fielding skills fit well within Ozzie's paradigm of speed- and defense-based baseball and make him an attractive candidate to play CF for the Sox.  At the very least, he could bat 9th (which is where Anderson would hit).  If his OBP improves, he'd be a good candidate for the #2 spot.  Anderson has had very limited MLB experience and did nothing special over those 34 plate appearances.  Through no fault of his own, he hasn't proven anything yet at the major-league level and nobody knows if he'll be able to adjust to major-league pitching this year.  If he could be acquired cheaply, a trade for Taveras could be beneficial for the Sox.  Ozzie could platoon Taveras and Anderson, taking pressure off of Anderson and allowing him to develop slowly.  Anderson is the projected long-term Sox CF.  If he pans out as expected, Taveras could be traded.  If Anderson turns out to be a bust, Taveras would provide the Sox with another (inexpensive) option.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nicely thought out, good post IMO.

 

Things will heat up all around baseball now that the holidays are past. The Tejada situation should be resolved (on way or the other) by end of next week latest, more free agent signings will get wrapped up, minor league contract invitees will be identified soon.

 

Personally I think the Tejada domino needs to fall first, and then other teams will be able to proceed with their moves.

[Dick Allen]

A lot of people seemed worried about losing Contreras and not getting anything in return. How about letting Contreras pitch out the season, and if he doesn't re-sign, take the money set aside for re-signing him and go after another free-agent, or take another financially challenged teams salary dump. Letting Contreras walk doesn't necessarily mean getting nothing for him.

[WCSox]

A lot of people seemed worried about losing Contreras and not getting anything in return. How about letting Contreras pitch out the season, and if he doesn't re-sign, take the money set aside for re-signing him and go after another free-agent, or take another financially challenged teams salary dump. Letting Contreras walk doesn't necessarily mean getting nothing for him.

 

I agree that this is the best approach. Outside of a rookie in CF and the need for maybe another lefty in the 'pen, the Sox can afford to hold off at this point and keep their 6 legitimate starters. Let's see how Contreras (and the rest of the team) does in the first half. If Jose pitches poorly in the first half and, say, Anderson isn't hitting or Hermanson goes on the DL, he can be trade bait. If not, the Sox can ride Jose through the playoffs again.

[ZoomSlowik]

I don't know if some of these points have been posted or not since I didn't feel like reading the entire thread, but I have no interest in getting Taveras whatsoever.

 

One of my major problems with acquiring him is that we don't need another fast leadoff type player with no power and little propensity for driving in runs. Pods is a useful player when he leads off an inning, but he's the last guy I want at the plate with men on. Batting Taveras in front of or behind Pods makes this situation even worse, especially since Crede and Uribe can do some damage in front of those guys. I really don't want to see two guys back-to-back in the order that drove in less than 60 runs combined strolling to the plate with one out after Crede or Uribe hits a double. I didn't like the idea when it was Juan Pierre being discussed, and I like it less with Taveras. He had only 20 extra base hits on the year and only took 25 walks. That's not what I want to see out of a potential #2 hitter.

 

He's a pretty good defensive player, but his contributions to the offense are somewhat dubious. He wasn't a huge factor offensively with a .291 average, imagine what his contributions will be if he hits more like .260. We still don't really know what we're getting with him, so it's definitely a possibility. A similar issue arises if he has a hamstring injury and can't run as efficiently. On the other hand, Brian Anderson can be a productive player hitting .260 because he has at least some power and can be a much more proficient RBI guy. He's a question mark, but we need a lot less in the average department in order for him to contribute. Unless Taveras suddenly develops his plate discipline or adds a little more pop, he's basically a less proficient version of Pods, which doesn't really help us. I don't have a problem with adding guys with speed, but I'd rather have that player be an established verteran with at least some power that can take a walk here and there.

 

Taveras simply isn't that strong a player, and isn't a player that I want on our team until he shows that he can consistently hit above .280, and even then there are other guys I'd want. If we're giving up a talented starting pitcher, I definitely don't want Taveras as the centerpiece to the deal. We'd have to get some other valuable pieces, because Taveras just doesn't offer that much to the lineup.

[CanOfCorn]

Don't know if this has been posted, but the Astros are talking about signing Preston Wilson. Who has played CF for most of his career. This doesn't mean they will keep him in CF...but it's interesting since we've been talking about Taveras a lot here lately.

 

Houston Chronicle

[Balta1701]

A lot of people seemed worried about losing Contreras and not getting anything in return. How about letting Contreras pitch out the season, and if he doesn't re-sign, take the money set aside for re-signing him and go after another free-agent, or take another financially challenged teams salary dump. Letting Contreras walk doesn't necessarily mean getting nothing for him.

Well, I think the counterpoint is that the "VERY LEAST" we could get for Contreras is salary flexibility for next year (money which will go to Buehrle immediately if I have my way). But if we decided we wanted to get a little bit more, well think about this; say we traded Contreras for another big-name prospect now. Yes, we'd lose a great pitcher next year, but then when 2006's season ends, what would we have? We'd still have Contreras's money available, but we'd also have that prospect. What would that prospect do? He'd allow us to put in another very cheap person at another position, and thereby save us additional money by putting in youth somewhere else.

 

Not the best example because of Fields, but imagine we traded Contreras for Andy Marte from the Red Sox (not advocating this approach, just as an example). Then, when 2006 ends, we can move Crede for something valuable, and then have Marte under our control at a very cheap price for 5-6 seasons, on top of being released from Contreras's contract. We could then use the money saved by having another very young guy in that spot to go and fill other needs, like keeping 56.

 

That would, in the long term, make us significantly better than just getting Contreras's salary back.

[Dick Allen]

Don't know if this has been posted,  but the Astros are talking about signing Preston Wilson.  Who has played CF for most of his career.  This doesn't mean they will keep him in CF...but it's interesting since we've been talking about Taveras a lot here lately.

 

Houston Chronicle

Personally, I don't think the Astros are as sold on Taveras as WCSox. He was benched during the NLCS, and the Astros need a little more punch in their line-up, something Taveras most likely wouldn't provide even if he hired Jose Canseco as his personal trainer.

[WCSox]

Personally, I don't think the Astros are as sold on Taveras as WCSox. He was benched during the NLCS, and the Astros need a little more punch in their line-up, something Taveras most likely wouldn't provide even if he hired Jose Canseco as his personal trainer.

 

If the Astros are looking for more power in their lineup, Taveras certainly isn't the guy.

[RockRaines]

If the Astros are looking for more power in their lineup, Taveras certainly isn't the guy.

Still, I dont think KW would bring in another light hitting young player, to replace a player that HE drafted. He traded our starting CF'er because he had that much confidence in BA. He has been his pet prospect throughout his career, why bring in another player who is young and unproven, and would knock out one of his favorite players. It doesnt make sense. Sounds like a message board rumor to me. Honestly, aside from Taveras's last year in AA, Anderson has out performed him in the minor leagues as well. It doesnt make business sense to double up on a commodity by trading a position of high value.

[WCSox]

He traded our starting CF'er because he had that much confidence in BA.

 

I don't dispute the fact that KW has a lot of confidence in BA. But I think that deal had a lot more to do with Thome than BA. Let's be frank (pun intended): The Sox needed more power with Thomas and Everett on their way out.

[RockRaines]

I don't dispute the fact that KW has a lot of confidence in BA.  But I think that deal had a lot more to do with Thome than BA.  Let's be frank (pun intended): The Sox needed more power with Thomas and Everett on their way out.

Then why would he choose Aaron as the piece that was expendable. He wouldnt just trade a player then leave a gaping hole. He has confidence in BA, and rightfully so. The guy has excelled at every level of the minors, its his turn. Dont forget, A-row was pretty much a throw in 4th OF'er when he started in Cf, and look how that turned out, now we have a top prospect taking the spot.

[Guest JimH]

The Preston Wilson signing has really crowded the Astro outfield. Who knows what's going on but I think everything is on hold until the Tejada thing gets settled. Then again I don't think the White Sox are going to be held hostage to Baltimore's timetable ... if indeed they are interested in acquiring Tejada.

 

By the way I agree completely with Rock that KW has tons of confidence in Brian Anderson. I also agree with Guillen's professed desire to have more speed at the top of the lineup. A "rotation" of Podsednik, Anderson, Tavares, Dye in the OF looks awfully good and deep to me.

 

Just trying to read the tea leaves.

[WCSox]

Then why would he choose Aaron as the piece that was expendable.

 

Probably because Rowand's offensive numbers were pedestrian (and unlikely to improve) and because Pods could play CF if they really needed him to. And it's likely that KW didn't want to get rid of the defensive studs in his infield. And they have nobody in the minors ready to play C in the majors right now. Hell, I don't even know if there's anybody at 3B, SS, or 2B that's ready to make the jump at this point.

 

Even without BA, Rowand was the logical choice. Which of the starters are you going to trade away before him? Crede? A.J.? Uribe? Tad? No way.

[RockRaines]

Probably because Rowand's offensive numbers were pedestrian (and unlikely to improve) and because Pods could play CF if they really needed him to.  And it's likely that KW didn't want to get rid of the defensive studs in his infield.  And they have nobody in the minors ready to play C in the majors right now.  Hell, I don't even know if there's anybody at 3B, SS, or 2B that's ready to make the jump at this point.

 

Even without BA, Rowand was the logical choice.  Which of the starters are you going to trade away before him?  Crede?  A.J.?  Uribe?  Tad?  No way.

You love to argue just to argue dont you. Seriously, his confidence for BA is evident everywhere. Trading of Rowand, the trade of Reed, the trade of Young, not signing another Of'er. BA has been on his board as the starting CF'er for years. If he wasnt they would have moved PODS to CF and picked up a corner OF'er. BA was KW's boy when he was drafted in the first round, and every level that he has excelled. The reason that A-row was expendable in ANY trade was because he believes that A-row was just taking up BA's spot until he was ready. Look at the signs man, its VERY obvious.

[Guest JimH]

Well Rock, I agree KW loves Anderson but I also think this poster brings up some very good points, I don't believe he is arguing just to argue but be that as it may.

 

Here is my take, even with all of KW's faith in Brian Anderson, his manager IMO is not completely sold. I do believe Anderson will get a shot and play a lot. On the other hand I believe Guillen loves speed and defense. When I say speed I mean stolen base speed.

 

Now of course they would not trade a starting pitcher just to get stolen bases, that makes no sense. However a guy like Tavares brings a lot to the table, and if they can add other pieces along with him in a trade, great.

 

This to me is all predicated on two things:

 

- Contreras not signing an extension. If he does soon, great, I am happy.

 

- Tejada's situation.

 

I'm a little worried about OF depth as it stands now. I agree Anderson has earned a shot based on minor league numbers but this team would have one rookie starting and the backups would be two more rookies ... Owens and Borchard. Granted Tavares doesn't have much more experience but certainly more than Owens and Borchard.

 

Yes, sooner or later you'd like to break rookies in but I keep coming back to Guillen wanting more speed. That's why I think they'd be interested in Tavares as part of a deal, plus I liked what I saw of him defensively.

 

The good news is, all of this should be settled fairly soon, certainly within a month.

[SkokieSox]

Don't know if this was posted, but can Preston Wilson's signing be a way for them to play him in CF, making Tavarez expendable so to say?

[Dick Allen]

Don't know if this was posted, but can Preston Wilson's signing be a way for them to play him in CF, making Tavarez expendable so to say?

Maybe, but odds are that Bagwell is done and Berkman moves to first, opening an outfield spot for Wilson.

[beck72]

Here is my take, even with all of KW's faith in Brian Anderson, his manager IMO is not completely sold.  I do believe Anderson will get a shot and play a lot.  On the other hand I believe Guillen loves speed and defense.  When I say speed I mean stolen base speed.

 

Now of course they would not trade a starting pitcher just to get stolen bases, that makes no sense.  However a guy like Tavares brings a lot to the table, and if they can add other pieces along with him in a trade, great.

 

It was Ozzie who told KW and convinced him to get him the right "horses" [ie speed, defense and pitching] so he could manage. Seeing how it was one of Ozzie's only public "wishes" to add speed and a #2 hitter, I am firmly convinced something will get done that addresses it.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

It was Ozzie who told KW and convinced him to get him the right "horses" [ie speed, defense and pitching] so he could manage. Seeing how it was one of Ozzie's only public "wishes" to add speed and a #2 hitter, I am firmly convinced something will get done that addresses it.

If the Sox do wind up acquiring Taveras, I'd bet Ozzie would still try Uribe in the 2 hole with Taveras batting ninth. Actually, I think that's a good idea.

 

Still, it's not going to happen (at least I hope not) unless the Astros throw in a quality reliever and a top pitching prospect.

[beck72]

Don't know if this was posted, but can Preston Wilson's signing be a way for them to play him in CF, making Tavarez expendable so to say?

A lot of Astros posters at MLB.com seem to think a trade is coming, either Lane or Taveras. Seeing how Lane for Tejeda is a pipe dream, Taveras seems expendable.

[beck72]

If the Sox do wind up acquiring Taveras, I'd bet Ozzie would still try Uribe in the 2 hole with Taveras batting ninth.  Actually, I think that's a good idea.

 

Still, it's not going to happen (at least I hope not) unless the Astros throw in a quality reliever and a top pitching prospect.

I agree. Jose is worth more than just Taveras

[Rowand44]

I agree. Jose is worth more than just Taveras

There is no doubt about that. I'm a fan of Taveras, I'd personally love him hitting 2nd. Anyways, I've said before I do not want to trade JC. If we do trade him however, Taveras, Qualls, and Hirsh is something I would like the Sox to look into.

Edited January 4, 2006 by Rowand44

[Milkman delivers]

Anyone have a breakdown of Lane? What are his strong and weak points.

[Dick Allen]

There is no doubt about that.  I'm a fan of Taveras, I'd personally love him hitting 2nd.  Anyways, I've said before I do not want to trade JC.  If we do trade him however, Taveras, Qualls, and Hirsh is something I would like the Sox to look into.

If KW made that trade, he should immediately be fired.

[Rowand44]

If KW made that trade, he should immediately be fired.

Ah yes, a good cf who could hit at the top of the order, a very good reliever, and a top prospect. Like I said, I don't want to trade JC at all but if we do that is definitely a package I'd look at.

Edited January 4, 2006 by Rowand44