The Count possibly to the Astros?

[WCSox]

Robin Ventura was given the starting 3b job with the White Sox in 1990 after hit a robust .178 in 45 ABs with no homers. The White Sox won 94 games in 1990.

 

(1) The Sox were rebuilding at the beginning of 1990

 

(2) For every Robin Ventura and Frank Thomas, there are several "prospects" who never hit well at the major-league level. How'd our last CF prospect (you know, the one that got the $5 million signing bonus) turn out?

 

For all I know, Brian Anderson could be the next Griffey. Then again, he could be the next Joe Borchard. If the Sox are trying to win right now, it's preferable to go with a player who brings several positives (speed, defense) and isn't a liability at the plate than a guy who may or may not pan out. Of course, the price would have to be right to make such a move.

[sayitaintso]

(1) The Sox were rebuilding at the beginning of 1990

 

(2) For every Robin Ventura and Frank Thomas, there are several "prospects" who never hit well at the major-league level.  How'd our last CF prospect (you know, the one that got the $5 million signing bonus) turn out?

 

For all I know, Brian Anderson could be the next Griffey.  Then again, he could be the next Joe Borchard.  If the Sox are trying to win right now, it's preferable to go with a player who brings several positives (speed, defense) and isn't a liability at the plate than a guy who may or may not pan out.  Of course, the price would have to be right to make such a move.

JoBo was rushed and struggled.

[SSH2005]

(1) The Sox were rebuilding at the beginning of 1990

 

(2) For every Robin Ventura and Frank Thomas, there are several "prospects" who never hit well at the major-league level.  How'd our last CF prospect (you know, the one that got the $5 million signing bonus) turn out?

 

For all I know, Brian Anderson could be the next Griffey.  Then again, he could be the next Joe Borchard.  If the Sox are trying to win right now, it's preferable to go with a player who brings several positives (speed, defense) and isn't a liability at the plate than a guy who may or may not pan out.  Of course, the price would have to be right to make such a move.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Yankees are contenders every year and have the largest payroll in baseball and even they went with the completely unproven Robinson Cano at second base. We don't even have half the Yankees' payroll so it would make even more sense for us to try the unproven Brian Anderson. That kind of refutes your whole point, doesn't it?

[WCSox]

JoBo was rushed and struggled.

 

No he wasn't. When was he drafted? 2000? 2001? He played 16 games each in '02 and '03. He wasn't rushed at all. He was simply a big, fat, freaking bust.

[Dick Allen]

(1) The Sox were rebuilding at the beginning of 1990

 

(2) For every Robin Ventura and Frank Thomas, there are several "prospects" who never hit well at the major-league level.  How'd our last CF prospect (you know, the one that got the $5 million signing bonus) turn out?

 

For all I know, Brian Anderson could be the next Griffey.  Then again, he could be the next Joe Borchard.  If the Sox are trying to win right now, it's preferable to go with a player who brings several positives (speed, defense) and isn't a liability at the plate than a guy who may or may not pan out.  Of course, the price would have to be right to make such a move.

Taveras got an opportunity to play with a team that was trying to win, he had 1 career at bat going into last season and his team made it to the WS. The White Sox have potentially a far better line-up in 2006 than the Astros had in 2005. Anderson will be hitting eighth or ninth, not much offense will be expected or needed from him. Its about as ideal of situation to break in with a World Champion as you could hope. I think the kid will do fine, if not you deal for a CF when he fails. Guys like Taveras are always available.

Edited December 31, 2005 by Dick Allen

[WCSox]

The Yankees are contenders every year and have the largest payroll in baseball and even they went with the completely unproven Robinson Cano at second base.  We don't even have half the Yankees' payroll so it would make even more sense for us to try the unproven Brian Anderson.  That kind of refutes your whole point, doesn't it?

 

They had to go with Cano because all of their money was tied up in old, ineffective pitchers like Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson. They've shelled out a ton of money in previous years for veteran position players via trades and FA (A-Rod, Knoblauch, Giambi, Sheffield, Matsui, etc.).

 

The Sox would have no trouble affording a young CF like Taveras who makes the league minimum.

[sayitaintso]

No he wasn't.  When was he drafted?  2000?  2001?  He played 16 games each in '02 and '03.  He wasn't rushed at all.  He was simply a big, fat, freaking bust.

He was rushed through the minors where he could never develop anything.

[WCSox]

Its about as ideal of situation to break in with a World Champion as you could hope. I think the kid will do fine, if not you deal for a CF when he fails. Guys like Taveras are always available.

 

I agree, but it wouldn't hurt to have a good backup plan in case Anderson doesn't pan out this year. As long as the Sox don't overpay, of course.

[SSH2005]

They had to go with Cano because all of their money was tied up in old, ineffective pitchers like Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson.  They've shelled out a ton of money in previous years for veteran position players via trades and FA (A-Rod, Knoblauch, Giambi, Sheffield, Matsui, etc.).

 

The Sox would have no trouble affording a young CF like Taveras who makes the league minimum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Regardless, they still took a chance on an unproven player. Some sources have said that we are over payroll as well. Why not take a chance on Anderson? How would Anderson ever be able to show you or anyone else that he's a good player if he never gets a chance to play?

[WCSox]

He was rushed through the minors where he could never develop anything.

 

What are you talking about? It took until 2003 before they gave him more than 16 plate appearances. By my count, he had at least two or three years to develop in the minors.

 

Borchard was given plenty of opportunity and was a royal bust. You can't spin that.

[Dick Allen]

No he wasn't.  When was he drafted?  2000?  2001?  He played 16 games each in '02 and '03.  He wasn't rushed at all.  He was simply a big, fat, freaking bust.

Borchard didn't play a whole lot of baseball until he became a pro. He may be a bust, I hope he's not, but he has a lot of ability. He has a great attitude, and is supposed to be one of the nicest people to ever wear a White Sox uniform. He needs to relax and believe in himself. If he made the Sox or another ML team and got hot for a couple of weeks, I truely believe he could use that as a springboard to a pretty decent career.

[WCSox]

Regardless, they still took a chance on an unproven player.  Some sources have said that we are over payroll as well.  Why not take a chance on Anderson?  How would Anderson ever be able to show you or anyone else that he's a good player if he never gets a chance to play?

 

Sure, but why not have a backup plan in place? Especially when said backup plan only costs the league minimum?

[Kalapse]

I agree, but it wouldn't hurt to have a good backup plan in case Anderson doesn't pan out this year.  As long as the Sox don't overpay, of course.

Contreras is overpaying. You don't give up a #1 pitcher for a contingency plan and a few other pieces.

[SSH2005]

Sure, but why not have a backup plan in place?  Especially when said backup plan only costs the league minimum?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, Mackowiak can play some center field. And I thought you wanted Taveras as a starter over Anderson, not a backup plan.

[Dick Allen]

Sure, but why not have a backup plan in place?  Especially when said backup plan only costs the league minimum?

If it means trading Jose Contreras it is stupid. You get a middle reliever, a back-up plan and a minor leaguer for someone who is ace material. For a team trying to win a championship, it makes absolutely zero sense.

[sayitaintso]

I agree, but it wouldn't hurt to have a good backup plan in case Anderson doesn't pan out this year.  As long as the Sox don't overpay, of course.

Now tell me that he wasn't rushed

 

 

Batting Statistics Order Baseball Data

Year Team Name League Age Org. Level G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO HBP IBB SH SF DP Avg Obp Slg Ops

 

2000 Azl White Sox Ariz 21 Chw Rk 7 29 3 12 4 0 0 8 0 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 .414 .552 1032

2000 Winston-Salem Caro 21 Chw A 14 52 7 15 3 0 2 7 0 0 6 9 2 0 0 1 0 .288 .462 832

2000 Birmingham Sou 21 Chw AA 6 22 3 5 0 1 0 3 0 0 3 8 0 0 0 1 1 .227 .318 618

2002 Winston-Salem Caro 23 Chw A 2 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .667 .000 667

2002 Charlotte IL 23 Chw AAA 117 438 62 119 35 2 20 59 2 4 49 139 4 2 0 2 11 .272 .349 .498 847

2002 Chi White Sox AL 23 Chw MLB 16 36 5 8 0 0 2 5 0 0 1 14 0 0 0 0 0 .222 .243 .389 632

2003 Charlotte IL 24 Chw AAA 114 435 62 110 20 2 13 53 2 4 27 103 8 1 0 2 14 .253 .307 .398 705

2003 Chi White Sox AL 24 Chw MLB 16 49 5 9 1 0 1 5 0 1 5 18 0 0 0 3 0 .184 .246 .265 511

2004 Charlotte IL 25 Chw AAA 82 301 44 80 21 0 16 48 4 3 30 68 2 1 0 3 8 .266 .333 .495 828

2004 Chi White Sox AL 25 Chw MLB 63 201 26 35 4 1 9 20 1 0 19 57 1 1 1 0 4 .174 .249 .338 587

2005 Charlotte IL 26 Chw AAA 134 494 69 130 20 0 29 67 6 4 50 143 .263 .335 .480 815

2005 Chi White Sox AL 26 Chw MLB 7 12 0 5 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 .417 .417 .583 1000

 

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/joe-borchard.shtml

Edited December 31, 2005 by sayitaintso

[WCSox]

Contreras is overpaying. You don't give up a #1 pitcher for a contingency plan and a few other pieces.

 

I never said that they should.

 

Well, Mackowiak can play some center field.  And I thought you wanted Taveras as a starter over Anderson, not a backup plan.

 

I do. Or is there some reason to rush Anderson? Let Taveras start for a year and then think about Anderson as your long-term plan.

[sayitaintso]

the only time he played more than 15 GAMES for a minor league team was in 2002. He missed all of 2001.

[WCSox]

Now tell me that he wasn't rushed

Batting Statistics Order Baseball Data

Year Team Name League Age Org. Level G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO HBP IBB SH SF DP  Avg Obp Slg Ops

 

2000 Azl White Sox Ariz 21 Chw Rk 7 29 3 12 4 0 0 8 0 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0  .414  .552 1032

2000 Winston-Salem Caro 21 Chw A 14 52 7 15 3 0 2 7 0 0 6 9 2 0 0 1 0  .288  .462 832

2000 Birmingham Sou 21 Chw AA 6 22 3 5 0 1 0 3 0 0 3 8 0 0 0 1 1  .227  .318 618

2002 Winston-Salem Caro 23 Chw A 2 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 0  .000 .667 .000 667

2002 Charlotte IL 23 Chw AAA 117 438 62 119 35 2 20 59 2 4 49 139 4 2 0 2 11  .272 .349 .498 847

2002 Chi White Sox AL 23 Chw MLB 16 36 5 8 0 0 2 5 0 0 1 14 0 0 0 0 0  .222 .243 .389 632

2003 Charlotte IL 24 Chw AAA 114 435 62 110 20 2 13 53 2 4 27 103 8 1 0 2 14  .253 .307 .398 705

2003 Chi White Sox AL 24 Chw MLB 16 49 5 9 1 0 1 5 0 1 5 18 0 0 0 3 0  .184 .246 .265 511

2004 Charlotte IL 25 Chw AAA 82 301 44 80 21 0 16 48 4 3 30 68 2 1 0 3 8  .266 .333 .495 828

2004 Chi White Sox AL 25 Chw MLB 63 201 26 35 4 1 9 20 1 0 19 57 1 1 1 0 4  .174 .249 .338 587

2005 Charlotte IL 26 Chw AAA 134 494 69 130 20 0 29 67 6 4 50 143       .263 .335 .480 815

2005 Chi White Sox AL 26 Chw MLB 7 12 0 5 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 4 0 0 0 0 0  .417 .417 .583 1000

 

What I see there is Borchard playing minor-league ball since 2000. And that's after he left Stanford. Did he not play at Stanford? And wasn't he injured in 2001? That's not anybody's fault.

 

Sorry, but I don't agree that he was rushed. Not every player goes straight to the minors and spends 4 or 5 years developing there before hitting the Big Show.

Edited December 31, 2005 by WCSox

[Dick Allen]

I never said that they should.

I do.  Or is there some reason to rush Anderson?  Let Taveras start for a year and then think about Anderson as your long-term plan.

So the Sox wouldn't be trying to win in 2007 because Anderson would surely be ready by then wouldn't he? Basically what you are saying is you shouldn't rely on guys without major league track records if you are trying to win. Seems to me the White Sox won a World Series with a closer who never pitched higher than AA 3 months before the World Series.

[Kalapse]

I do.  Or is there some reason to rush Anderson?  Let Taveras start for a year and then think about Anderson as your long-term plan.

Anderson is not being rushed, he got his full year in at Charlotte and performed beautifully, it's his time now.

[WCSox]

So the Sox wouldn't be trying to win in 2007 because Anderson would surely be ready by then wouldn't he? Basically what you are saying is you shouldn't rely on guys without major league track records if you are trying to win. Seems to me the White Sox won a World Series with a closer who never pitched higher than AA 3 months before the World Series.

 

If given the choice, yes, you should. Do you think that they would've gone with Jenks had Hermanson not had back problems?

[sayitaintso]

What I see there is Borchard playing minor-league ball since 2000.  And that's after he left Stanford.  Did he not play at Stanford?  And wasn't he injured in 2001?  That's not anybody's fault.

 

Sorry, but I don't agree that he was rushed.  Not every player goes straight to the minors and spends 4 or 5 years developing there before hitting the Big Show.

At stanford they use metal bats because it is college, so the difference is huge from metal to wood. He was injured so he can't play, after he came back he went almost straight to AAA after a whopping 29 games in rookie, A, and AA ball. I would defenantly consider that being rushed.

[sayitaintso]

If given the choice, yes, you should.  Do you think that they would've gone with Jenks had Hermanson not had back problems?

They traded takatsu because they believed he could do it.

[Dick Allen]

How is Borchard a bust? The guy hit .417 last year. He has proven he can hit major league pitching.