Garland Question

[quickman]

I do too.  But how many teams have two of the same type of player in their outfield (Podsednik and Taveras)?  Not many, because it would weaken their lineup.

 

 

Not necessarily because you can get power from other postions in your lineup. They suspect that Iguchi can hit 20-25 if lowered in the order and most people here have Crede Busting out this year. (not me, but most people). In addition thome brings an added bat.

[quickman]

Taveras struck out 103 times and only walked 25 times last season.

 

 

Like I said you guys have all the stats. Lets not even play the games. Its just about stats. This is why I don't know as much as these young people.

[Guest JimH]

Taveras struck out 103 times and only walked 25 times last season.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Correct.

 

I think he can improve, but who knows for sure? Certainly not you, me, or qwerty who senses a decline is on the way for Tavares.

 

If the Sox scouts like this guy, I suspect there is a reason. Not that Sox scouts are infallible, but they know how to identify guys that fit Guillen's preferences.

[CWSGuy406]

Do you think thats what there looking for? More speed, good D. A guy that can hit #2. i don't know, maybe everyone is right Brian Andersen even though he strikes out like Sammy Sosa, he might have more power, at least he had some power in the Minor leagues.

 

Hit #2? With a .325 OBP? If he's your best #2 hitting option, you have one really pathetic offense.

 

Ah, s***, I used stats. Nevermind...

[quickman]

Wait a minute, I'm confused.

 

The White Sox want players who can steal bases, hit for average?

 

We need to site down and discuss this, I have not been privy to Guillen's philosophy.

 

 

Oh man you must not have watched them this year as much as others. Yea guillen likes to play this National league type baseball, whatever that is.

[SSH2005]

Not necessarily because you can get power from other postions in your lineup. They suspect that Iguchi can hit 20-25 if lowered in the order and most people here have Crede Busting out this year. (not me, but most people). In addition thome brings an added bat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point. I disagree on Crede breaking out as well. I think he will always be the same player. Play great defense, hit a bunch of homers, but never hit for average or get on base at a good rate.

 

Like I said you guys have all the stats. Lets not even play the games. Its just about stats. This is why I don't know as much as these young people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But if you are going to knock Anderson for striking out a lot (which I agree that he will), you also have to knock Taveras for doing the same.

Edited January 2, 2006 by SSH2005

[Guest JimH]

Hit #2?  With a .325 OBP?  If he's your best #2 hitting option, you have one really pathetic offense.

 

Ah, s***, I used stats.  Nevermind...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Keith you are a lot smarter than this. It is not saying Anderson is bad. Look at what type of player Guillen likes. Do you not think a player like Tavares has a good chance to gain more plate discipline, do you think Brian is capable of stealing 20 bases per year. Guillen wants more speed at the top of the lineup, do you not think he will support every effort to get more speed? I think he will.

[SSH2005]

Hit #2?  With a .325 OBP?  If he's your best #2 hitting option, you have one really pathetic offense.

 

Ah, s***, I used stats.  Nevermind...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I would fear the most in acquiring Taveras. I like his apparent ability to hit for AVG, bunting ability, speed, defense, and arm in center field but I would hate it if we acquired him and he put up the same low OBP in the #2 spot. I'd rather have him hit for a lower AVG and put up a higher OBP. Of course, Taveras could no doubt improve on his plate patience.

Edited January 2, 2006 by SSH2005

[quickman]

Hit #2?  With a .325 OBP?  If he's your best #2 hitting option, you have one really pathetic offense.

 

Ah, s***, I used stats.  Nevermind...

 

 

Like I said you all know more than me. You guys are so smart. Really all of you can rattle stuff off. Please let me know who will win the world series next year. I am sure those stats will tell you.

[Guest JimH]

Personally I like young players who can play good D and steal a bunch of bases and hit .290 and obviously know how to play the game at age 24. I think Guillen does too. My guess is they're that worried about power and OPS, maybe because of this Thome guy.

[SSH2005]

Keith you are a lot smarter than this.  It is not saying Anderson is bad.  Look at what type of player Guillen likes.  Do you not think a player like Tavares has a good chance to gain more plate discipline, do you think Brian is capable of stealing 20 bases per year.  Guillen wants more speed at the top of the lineup, do you not think he will support every effort to get more speed?  I think he will.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I actually think that Anderson could steal 20 bases if Ozzie ran him a lot. Rowand stole 16 bases last year and Anderson has as much if not more speed than him. Hell, Dye had 11 SB last season. But I do agree with you to some extent. Many posters here think only about what players THEY would want to acquire, not the types of players that OZZIE and KW would realistically want to add to the Sox.

 

Personally I like young players who can play good D and steal a bunch of bases and hit .290 and obviously know how to play the game at age 24.  I think Guillen does too.  My guess is they're that worried about power and OPS, maybe because of this Thome guy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't care about Taveras's OPS. I would care about his OBP though, especially since he would be batting second with us. And I would rather have Taveras if he had a higher OBP, even if his AVG was lower. Of course, he could improve on his OBP and I would hope he did if we acquired him.

Edited January 2, 2006 by SSH2005

[Guest JimH]

Many posters here think only about what players THEY would want to acquire, not the types of players that OZZIE and KW would realistically want to add to the Sox.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thank you, that is the premise of most of my posts, other than those arguing with quickman.

[GoodAsGould]

If KW wants Taveras even though I dont really like him all that much im going to support it because im just a dumb fan and his job is baseball.... and last season I thought we were going to stink so just shows how much I know.

 

And even though im not a big Taveras fan the bashing it seems that 3-4 posters keep going on him is totally wrong and just plain dumb.

[quickman]

Well for what its worth, I don't hink we will get him. I do think we will get relief pitching which we need. But I am certain most here will find some stat they don't like. But in my truly old humble opinion, there will be trade and we will get a player or two that will be part of the 25 man. Personally center field is a hole. I think it would be great to get a guy who played that position well, and played it in a world series, that doesn't cost much money and fits the mold of an ozzie Guillen player. But there are no stats for that, just simple stupid logic.

[Guest JimH]

Well for what its worth, I don't hink we will get him. I do think we will get relief pitching which we need. But I am certain most here will find some stat they don't like. But in my truly old humble opinion, there will be trade and we will get a player or two that will be part of the 25 man. Personally center field is a hole. I think it would be great to get a guy who played that position well, and played it in a world series, that doesn't cost much money and fits the mold of an ozzie Guillen player. But there are no stats for that, just simple stupid logic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agree with everything except the part about you and your opinoin being humble.

[quickman]

Agree with everything except the part about you and your opinoin being humble. 

 

 

Humble is as humble does. or something like that.

[Guest JimH]

Humble is as humble does. or something like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ralph Kramden: "I am HUMBLE"

Edited January 2, 2006 by JimH

[CWSGuy406]

Keith you are a lot smarter than this.  It is not saying Anderson is bad.  Look at what type of player Guillen likes.  Do you not think a player like Tavares has a good chance to gain more plate discipline, do you think Brian is capable of stealing 20 bases per year.  Guillen wants more speed at the top of the lineup, do you not think he will support every effort to get more speed?  I think he will.

 

Jim, in my opinion -- and I could be wrong -- I think you're overstating Ozzie's quotes.

 

What I mean by that is, if Kenny was really on board with getting another slap-hitting speedster, I think he would've had the better, left-handed Willie Taveras already (Juan Pierre).

 

I think that Kenny realizes the importance of power in his lineup, and I think he likes having three guys at the bottom of the lineup all capable of 20+ HRs (Iguchi/Uibe + Crede + Anderson). I also think that he's extremely confident in Anderson's defensive capabilities.

 

Will Taveras gain more plate discipline? Ehh, he might, but even at his peak, I don't think he's that great of a player. If this were to be a move for further down the line, I think I'd dislike it even more, as we already have a guy like him in Jerry Owens.

 

......

 

QM, you made a comment about everyone thinking Anderson will put up All-Star numbers. Is .250/.315/.425 really the line of an All-Star. 'Cause, frankly, I have minimal expectations for BA in his first year offensively. Really, his importance will come on how good he is defensively out in CF.

[Guest JimH]

Keith as usual yours are very fair and very well thought out points, my only comment would be Pierre was expensive and being courted by several teams in a fire sale. Tavares on the other hand ... likely is only available in a package for something Houston and 28 other teams really really want - starting pitching.

[quickman]

Jim, in my opinion -- and I could be wrong -- I think you're overstating Ozzie's quotes. 

 

What I mean by that is, if Kenny was really on board with getting another slap-hitting speedster, I think he would've had the better, left-handed Willie Taveras already (Juan Pierre).

 

I think that Kenny realizes the importance of power in his lineup, and I think he likes having three guys at the bottom of the lineup all capable of 20+ HRs (Iguchi/Uibe + Crede + Anderson).  I also think that he's extremely confident in Anderson's defensive capabilities.

 

Will Taveras gain more plate discipline?  Ehh, he might, but even at his peak, I don't think he's that great of a player.  If this were to be a move for further down the line, I think I'd dislike it even more, as we already have a guy like him in Jerry Owens. 

 

......

 

QM, you made a comment about everyone thinking Anderson will put up All-Star numbers.  Is .250/.315/.425 really the line of an All-Star.  'Cause, frankly, I have minimal expectations for BA in his first year offensively.  Really, his importance will come on how good he is defensively out in CF.

 

I will let jim Speak for himself, but as per the question to me. i do think people on this site believe andersen is going to be great. Put me down as somebody who thinks he won't. My post was more tongue and cheek to those who fall in love with opur terrific farm system.

 

As per the pierre comment ( not addessed to me) pierre cost lots of money. taveras doesn't. I also think Tavaras can improve, he is a great bunter and is a threat on the bases. speed is good. and this guy is cheap.

[Chisoxfn]

Right,  Rowand helped us win but he had holes.  Hmmm ... Anderson in his minor league career appears to have some of the same holes.  Guillen likes speedsters like Podsednik, it does not matter that all the posters on this site think we do not need two players of the same ilk, the point is Guillen wants more speed. 

 

No surprise to me if these rumors carry some weight.

Anderson has a lot of holes in his swing. They were thoroughly exploited at the major league level (in albeit a small sample size). Over the long haul I think he'll be a solid ballplayer, but I still am in shock at how people have been annoiting both him and Owens can't miss all stars. Our best outfield prospect (by far) is no longer in our system (no biggie if Anderson can develop and Vazquez pitches well), but Anderson is no guarantee.

 

He has all the tools but has quite a bit of work to do to his swing and approach if he's going to succeed at this level (as do most youngsters). I'm always amazed at how fans in general always overrate prospects and underrate proven commodities. Its almost like how backup qb's are always better than starting qb's. Well until they get the opportunity in which case most of the time they show why they are backup quarterbacks.

[quickman]

Anderson has a lot of holes in his swing.  They were thoroughly exploited at the major league level (in albeit a small sample size).  Over the long haul I think he'll be a solid ballplayer, but I still am in shock at how people have been annoiting both him and Owens can't miss all stars.  Our best outfield prospect (by far) is no longer in our system (no biggie if Anderson can develop and Vazquez pitches well), but Anderson is no guarantee.

 

He has all the tools but has quite a bit of work to do to his swing and approach if he's going to succeed at this level (as do most youngsters).  I'm always amazed at how fans in general always overrate prospects and underrate proven commodities.  Its almost like how backup qb's are always better than starting qb's.  Well until they get the opportunity in which case most of the time they show why they are backup quarterbacks.

 

 

AHH now here is a man who looks at more than stats. Very nice post. If we get Tavaras, we can then trade andersen for more bullpen help. Then the real prospect we have left (Sweeney) can develop. He is the only one left that I like at least until the next failed draft!

[Chisoxfn]

Keith you are a lot smarter than this.  It is not saying Anderson is bad.  Look at what type of player Guillen likes.  Do you not think a player like Tavares has a good chance to gain more plate discipline, do you think Brian is capable of stealing 20 bases per year.  Guillen wants more speed at the top of the lineup, do you not think he will support every effort to get more speed?  I think he will.

Brian can steal 20 bases a year in an agressive system. But we are talking about the top of the lineup and Brian Anderson shouldn't be anywhere close to the top of the lineup this year.

 

Personally, knowing the way the organization feels about Anderson, I don't think there is a chance in hell the Sox are actually seriously looking at Taveras. However, I can see the reasons why, but I also see why people throw his name out there (anyone can figure out what type of guys Ozzie likes and Taveras is that type of guy). Because of that your going to have his name brought up when a team like Houston is rumored to be after a frontline pitcher.

 

Anyway, my 2 cents is that most of this is all for naught because Anderson is going to be our starting CF at the start of the season (for better or worse) and unlike most I'm not exactly comfortable with Brian. At the same time I think our lineup is quite good and our pitching staff is great (as long as it stays healthy). I'd like to see our pen strengthened, but if Brian Anderson and one bullpen arm our the Sox sole questionmarks, I think we'll be alright at the start of the year.

 

Its not like we are going to be asking Anderson to be a key player. As long as he can play defense and improve as the season goes on, I think they'll be alright in CF. I like Anderson's defensive tools a lot and I have my doubts (always have) about his offense, but he has the raw capabilities there and has always proved me wrong while playing well at every level he's been placed at in his career. Hopefully he does more of the same at the major league level.

[SSH2005]

Jim, in my opinion -- and I could be wrong -- I think you're overstating Ozzie's quotes. 

 

What I mean by that is, if Kenny was really on board with getting another slap-hitting speedster, I think he would've had the better, left-handed Willie Taveras already (Juan Pierre).

 

I think that Kenny realizes the importance of power in his lineup, and I think he likes having three guys at the bottom of the lineup all capable of 20+ HRs (Iguchi/Uibe + Crede + Anderson).  I also think that he's extremely confident in Anderson's defensive capabilities.

 

Will Taveras gain more plate discipline?  Ehh, he might, but even at his peak, I don't think he's that great of a player.  If this were to be a move for further down the line, I think I'd dislike it even more, as we already have a guy like him in Jerry Owens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are other big differences between Taveras and Pierre though. Taveras is very cheap and would be under the Sox control for years. Pierre will be making millions next year and will be a free agent after the season is over. But even though Taveras will be cheap for years, he is still a Boras client.

 

I agree with you on KW though. He loves guys with power while Ozzie cares more about guys who play good defense and have speed. Look no further than the lineups that KW fielded before 2005 -- lineups mostly stacked with power hitters. It took Ozzie being the Sox manager to get a guy like Podsednik.

 

I agree that Owens is probably the same type of player as Taveras. But the reason I would rather have Taveras over Owens is that Taveras plays great defense in center field and has a strong arm. Owens projects as a left fielder, if I recall correctly.

 

QM, you made a comment about everyone thinking Anderson will put up All-Star numbers.  Is .250/.315/.425 really the line of an All-Star.  'Cause, frankly, I have minimal expectations for BA in his first year offensively.  Really, his importance will come on how good he is defensively out in CF.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed, Anderson's defense in CF will be the key. Any decent offense from him will be a plus. And if you end up being right in your projection for Anderson (.740 OPS), he will match Rowand's production from last season (.736 OPS).

Edited January 2, 2006 by SSH2005

[quickman]

Brian can steal 20 bases a year in an agressive system.  But we are talking about the top of the lineup and Brian Anderson shouldn't be anywhere close to the top of the lineup this year.

 

Personally, knowing the way the organization feels about Anderson, I don't think there is a chance in hell the Sox are actually seriously looking at Taveras.  However, I can see the reasons why, but I also see why people throw his name out there (anyone can figure out what type of guys Ozzie likes and Taveras is that type of guy).  Because of that your going to have his name brought up when a team like Houston is rumored to be after a frontline pitcher. 

 

Anyway, my 2 cents is that most of this is all for naught because Anderson is going to be our starting CF at the start of the season (for better or worse) and unlike most I'm not exactly comfortable with Brian.  At the same time I think our lineup is quite good and our pitching staff is great (as long as it stays healthy).  I'd like to see our pen strengthened, but if Brian Anderson and one bullpen arm our the Sox sole questionmarks, I think we'll be alright at the start of the year.

 

Its not like we are going to be asking Anderson to be a key player.  As long as he can play defense and improve as the season goes on, I think they'll be alright in CF.  I like Anderson's defensive tools a lot and I have my doubts (always have) about his offense, but he has the raw capabilities there and has always proved me wrong while playing well at every level he's been placed at in his career.  Hopefully he does more of the same at the major league level.

 

another awesome and correct post. One without a stat. I too think they will try andersen out in center this year because they can hide him. They will use a starting pitcher to get more bullpen help. But if tavaras is available, I would like to see it happen.