Alexander NFL MVP

[hammerhead johnson]

I never said he wasn't a candidate. He most certainly is. But think about it. He is the most valuable player on his team but like I said, if he wasn't on the Seahawks, I doubt they would be a bad team. If Willie Parker wasn't on the Steeler in 2005, the Steelers would have no running game until week 11 or 12. They wouldn't have been a playoff team IMO. Now, I don't follow the Seahawks that well so I might be totally wrong but I think the award should actually be given to the MVP not the guy with the best stats.

 

Yeah, but Willie Parker is a slightly above average RB at best. Would you put him in the Top 25 for RBs? I don't think that I would.

 

IMO, on principle alone, a guy who is nothing special should never be considered for the MVP award.

[SoxFan1]

Yeah, but Willie Parker is a slightly above average RB at best.  Would you put him in the Top 25 for RBs?  I don't think that I would.

 

IMO, on principle alone, a guy who is nothing special should never be considered for the MVP award.

Well, to each his own, you know. To me, like I said numerous times, stats should not be looked at as the main reason to give a guy an MVP award. It is called "Most Valuable Player" so give it to the guy who was truly the most valuable player. Honestly, I probably would have given the award to Steve Smith or Carson Palmer this season.

 

But I don't get what you mean by "on principle alone."

[YASNY]

Well, to each his own, you know. To me, like I said numerous times, stats should not be looked at as the main reason to give a guy an MVP award. It is called "Most Valuable Player" so give it to the guy who was truly the most valuable player. Honestly, I probably would have given the award to Steve Smith or Carson Palmer this season.

 

But I don't get what you mean by "on principle alone."

 

The reason it's not called Most outstanding Player is .. well ... who wants to be a MOP?

[SoxFan1]

The reason it's not called Most outstanding Player is .. well ... who wants to be a MOP?

:Opens Microsoft Word, Types in "Outstanding," Right Clicks Word, Highlights Synonyms:

 

Fine, then make it Most Fantastic Player! :rolly

[White Sox Josh]

I agree with you here. That just made ZERO sense.

What I am saying is that Tom Brady meant more to his team. Alexander was great however Tom Brady is the only reason the Patriots have a shot in the playoffs. He broke 4,000. Where would the patriots be without Tom Brady? They have no run game because Cory Dillon was hurt a lot of the time and the defense was bad. It has started to get better but Brady pretty much carried that team. Call me crazy but I still think the Seahawks could've won without Alexander. The Patriots wouldn't be in the playoffs if they didn't have Tom Brady.

[DBAHO]

What I am saying is that Tom Brady meant more to his team.  Alexander was great however Tom Brady is the only reason the Patriots have a shot in the playoffs.  He broke 4,000.  Where would the patriots be without Tom Brady?  They have no run game because Cory Dillon was hurt a lot of the time and the defense was bad.  It has started to get better but Brady pretty much carried that team.  Call me crazy but I still think the Seahawks could've won without Alexander.  The Patriots wouldn't be in the playoffs if they didn't have Tom Brady.

Would Seattle still be the #1 seed in the NFC if they didn't have Alexander? You can argue that they would have still made the playoffs, but that most likely would have been as the 5 or 6 seeds.

 

Don't forget when the Pats went on that 4 game winning game streak towards the end of the seasons, the defense only gave up just under 8 points per game over the 4 games. The defense playing the way they did was a huge factor to them getting to the playoffs at the end of the season.

[YASNY]

:Opens Microsoft Word, Types in "Outstanding," Right Clicks Word, Highlights Synonyms:

 

Fine, then make it Most Fantastic Player! :rolly 

 

That'll work! Most guys would be happy being called a MF Player!

[Dam8610]

Come on, dude.  Alexander is a monster RB.  Could you imagine him on the Bears?  I would just about cream my shorts.  I never expected to enter this thread and read about how he didn't deserve to win the freaking MVP award after he set the all-time record for TDs in a season.

 

Look at his gamelogs:

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187382/gamelogs/2005

 

He did nothing against the good teams (not counting the Colts, who didn't play 5 starters on defense and weren't trying to win the game). Also, Seattle runs to the left far more than they do to any other direction, but that has nothing to do with Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson, right?

[White Sox Josh]

Would Seattle still be the #1 seed in the NFC if they didn't have Alexander? You can argue that they would have still made the playoffs, but that most likely would have been as the 5 or 6 seeds.

 

Don't forget when the Pats went on that 4 game winning game streak towards the end of the seasons, the defense only gave up just under 8 points per game over the 4 games. The defense playing the way they did was a huge factor to them getting to the playoffs at the end of the season.

Brady also had monster games with average receivers and not a great O-Line or RB situation. Alexander deserves Player of the Year however MVP should go to Brady.

[Heads22]

They should really change the title of this award. MVP means most valuable. But in all reality, they just give it to the guy with the best numbers and what not. Think about teams who would really suck without a certain player. Would the Seahawks suck without SA? Doubtful. Would the Colts suck with Manning? Probably not. Give the award to guys like Carson Palmer, Plaxico Burress, Santana Moss, Steve Smith, or Willie Parker. Guys who were truly the most valuable players. I am taking nothing from Alexander or Manning but if they deserve an award, then it should be Most Outstanding Player not Most Valuable Player.

 

 

I don't think there's anyone out there that could handle the Colts offense besides Manning. Sorgi doesn't suck, but he's the one that makes that whole thing go.

 

That being said, SA is MVP, and I honestly thought Carson Palmer had a claim.

[hammerhead johnson]

Look at his gamelogs:

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187382/gamelogs/2005

 

He did nothing against the good teams (not counting the Colts, who didn't play 5 starters on defense and weren't trying to win the game). Also, Seattle runs to the left far more than they do to any other direction, but that has nothing to do with Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson, right?

 

Yeah, I looked at his game log, and it's f***ing insane. He really only had two bad games all year, and in one of them (against Philadelphia), he still scored two touchdowns.

 

And of course they're going to run to the side of the line that has the better personnel. Every NFL team tends to have one side of the line that is better than the other. If you'e a head coach that doesn't have his head up his ass, you will run more towards the side with the better linemen. I mean, is this really the definitive evidence that he's not an MVP candidate?

 

Also, if Alexander disappeared against "good teams", wouldn't that same line of reasoning apply in the cases of Jones and Hutchinson?

 

Really now, you're sounding a little bit like Josh with this swiss cheese argument, don't you think?

Edited January 6, 2006 by hammerhead johnson

[Dam8610]

Swiss cheese? You want to actually look at his splits here?

 

Alexander vs. Sub .500 teams in 2005 (10 games):

235 carries 1255 yards 5.3 YPC 125.5 YPG 22 TD

 

Alexander vs. .500 or better teams in 2005 (6 games):

135 carries 625 yards 4.6 YPC 104.1 YPG 6 TD

 

That doesn't look too bad, but one of those games against .500+ teams was against the Colts when they sat FIVE defensive starters and treated the game like a preseason game. In that game, Alexander got 139 yards and 3 TDs. Take that away, and you're left with:

 

114 carries 486 yards 4.2 YPC 97.2 YPG 3 TD in 5 games

 

So against legitimate competition that played to win the game, Alexander averaged less than 100 yards and less than 1 TD per game. That's not what MVPs do, especially when you have candidates like Manning, Palmer, and Brady, who were all able to produce at about their season averages if not better against legitimate competition.

[hammerhead johnson]

Swiss cheese? You want to actually look at his splits here?

 

Alexander vs. Sub .500 teams in 2005 (10 games):

235 carries 1255 yards 5.3 YPC 125.5 YPG 22 TD

 

Alexander vs. .500 or better teams in 2005 (6 games):

135 carries 625 yards 4.6 YPC 104.1 YPG 6 TD

 

That doesn't look too bad, but one of those games against .500+ teams was against the Colts when they sat FIVE defensive starters and treated the game like a preseason game. In that game, Alexander got 139 yards and 3 TDs. Take that away, and you're left with:

 

114 carries 486 yards 4.2 YPC 97.2 YPG 3 TD in 5 games

 

So against legitimate competition that played to win the game, Alexander averaged less than 100 yards and less than 1 TD per game. That's not what MVPs do, especially when you have candidates like Manning, Palmer, and Brady, who were all able to produce at about their season averages if not better against legitimate competition.

 

Really now, if you have enough time on your hands, you could put together an argument bashing any MVP candidate. Brady had 6 games where his QB Rating was under 80. Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning both have a s***load of pieces to work with on offense. But if any one of those three were to win the MVP award, you can rest assured that I wouldn't be arguing against them because they are all great players.

 

I don't care who Alexander went up against this year. If you've watched him numerous times, he's an insanely gifted RB who is capable of just pounding teams to death. Every RB in this league is going to have a bad game here and there. In the end, he ran for damn near 2000 yards and he set the all-time record for TDs.

Edited January 6, 2006 by hammerhead johnson

[SoxFan1]

I don't think there's anyone out there that could handle the Colts offense besides Manning. Sorgi doesn't suck, but he's the one that makes that whole thing go.

That being said, SA is MVP, and I honestly thought Carson Palmer had a claim.

Agreed.

[AirScott]

Swiss cheese? You want to actually look at his splits here?

 

Alexander vs. Sub .500 teams in 2005 (10 games):

235 carries 1255 yards 5.3 YPC 125.5 YPG 22 TD

 

Alexander vs. .500 or better teams in 2005 (6 games):

135 carries 625 yards 4.6 YPC 104.1 YPG 6 TD

 

That doesn't look too bad, but one of those games against .500+ teams was against the Colts when they sat FIVE defensive starters and treated the game like a preseason game. In that game, Alexander got 139 yards and 3 TDs. Take that away, and you're left with:

 

114 carries 486 yards 4.2 YPC 97.2 YPG 3 TD in 5 games

 

So against legitimate competition that played to win the game, Alexander averaged less than 100 yards and less than 1 TD per game. That's not what MVPs do, especially when you have candidates like Manning, Palmer, and Brady, who were all able to produce at about their season averages if not better against legitimate competition.

it's not like he completely disappeared in those 5 remaining games, and it's typical for players to play better against worse teams.

 

but if you ask me, Brady should be the MVP, simply because I believe he meant more to the Patriots than Alexander did to the Seahawks, though his numbers don't reflect that as much as Manning's or Alexander's. I think Manning would have won the MVP if Alexander had finished the season without the TD record.

[rangercal]

Alexander was the right guy for it. Seattle would be no where with out that guy

[GoodAsGould]

Brady also had monster games with average receivers and not a great O-Line or RB situation.  Alexander deserves Player of the Year however MVP should go to Brady.

 

Yeah but look at Brady's team record.... when he was the only one playing well they were losing it wasnt until they got to the easy part of the schedule and the defense showed up they started winning games..... Which in my eyes shows the defense of the Pats is more valuable than Brady.

[RME JICO]

The MVP should be heads and shoulders above the competition. The only thing Alexander did was break the TD record. SEA just never took him out near the goal line, and actually ran him in for a few easy ones, so if that is how you want to break the record, that is fine, but kind of cheap in my book.

 

If the MVP is going to be a RB, he needs to be more than just a runner. Alexander didn't even have 100 yards receiving. Brady or Manning would have been better picks because they have more of an impact on the game. They run the game from the field. Alexander gets told what to do. His O-Line and the playcalling have a lot to do with his success.

 

Compare these:

 

L. Johnson 1750 yds 20 TDS, 343 Rec yds 1 TD, starting only 10 games.

Alexander 1880 yds 27 TDs, 78 Rec yds 1 TD - MVP?

T. Barber 1860 yds 9 TDs, 530 Rec yds 2 TD (2390 Total yards)

 

If you were going to pick a RB, then Barber or Johnson should have been picked above Alexander. The only reason he got it was because of the TD record. If Johnson started 1 or 2 more games he would have had the rushing title. The only reason Barber didn't get it was because of his lack of TDs, but he had 432 more total yards from scrimmage than Alexander.

[hammerhead johnson]

SEA just never took him out near the goal line, and actually ran him in for a few easy ones, so if that is how you want to break the record, that is fine, but kind of cheap in my book.

 

How often did Seattle get held to an FG when they were at or near the goal line? Alexander gets stuffed less than any other RB in this league in goal line situations. It's almost like having Shaquille O'Neal underneath the basket if you think about it. He's pretty much automatic.

 

Thre is no such thing as a cheap touchdown in a goal line situation. You need to get that out of your head ASAP.

Edited January 7, 2006 by hammerhead johnson

[hammerhead johnson]

Here's something that I just read in the Tribune:

 

Of all the things that Alexander accomplished (1880 Yards, 28 TDs), one that really made him MVP was 16 for 16 on 3rd-And-1 carries.

 

Jones and Hutchinson are absolutely terrific, but you have to admit that Alexander is a f***ing beast.

 

And if you're a Bears fan, you're probably scared to go into Seattle. I know that I am. Let's hope that the Redskins can somehow upset the Seahawks.

[Felix]

Alexander gets stuffed less than any other RB in this league in goal line situations.

I don't think so, and the first name that comes to mind that disagrees with that is The Bus.

[Dam8610]

Alexander gets stuffed less than any other RB in this league in goal line situations.

 

 

I don't think so, and the first name that comes to mind that disagrees with that is The Bus.

 

You're both wrong. Edgerrin James and Larry Johnson get stuffed the least. I can provide proof of this if you'd like.

[RME JICO]

How often did Seattle get held to an FG when they were at or near the goal line?  Alexander gets stuffed less than any other RB in this league in goal line situations.  It's almost like having Shaquille O'Neal underneath the basket if you think about it.  He's pretty much automatic.

 

Thre is no such thing as a cheap touchdown in a goal line situation.  You need to get that out of your head ASAP.

So when a team is resting their superstar RB and they send him in at first and goal at the one yard line to break the record, that is not cheap? They were playing for the record, that is cheap. If he got hurt on that play, everyone would have questioned why he was in there for that play after he was already pulled from the game. They actually did that a lot. Why else would he play in a meaningless game? To break the TD record and win the Rushing title, and that is cheap. If he doesn't win the rushing title or break the record, he is not the MVP, and he knew it.

 

Alexander has had 39 rushes when SEA had a goal to go situation. He scored 20 TD's in those 39 rushes. So he had only 7 TD runs from outside of the 10. Of those 20 TDs, 15 were less than 3 yards.

[hammerhead johnson]

So when a team is resting their superstar RB and they send him in at first and goal at the one yard line to break the record, that is not cheap?  They were playing for the record, that is cheap.  If he got hurt on that play, everyone would have questioned why he was in there for that play after he was already pulled from the game.   They actually did that a lot.  Why else would he play in a meaningless game?  To break the TD record and win the Rushing title, and that is cheap.  If he doesn't win the rushing title or break the record, he is not the MVP, and he knew it.

 

Who gives a flying f***? He had 20 carries in the final game for only 73 yards and one TD. Even if he doesn't play in that game, he finishes the season with 1800+ yards and 27 TDs, which is MVP worthy. Perhaps it would have been cheap if he was going up against Green Bay's 2nd and 3rd stringers on defense. Was he?

 

Not every coach believes in the "meaningless game" concept. It's nice to rest your impact players when you have homefield advantage locked down within the conference, but Holmgren was going to get Alexander 15 to 20 carries regardless of any record.

 

Alexander has had 39 rushes when SEA had a goal to go situation.  He scored 20 TD's in those 39 rushes.  So he had only 7 TD runs from outside of the 10.  Of those 20 TDs, 15 were less than 3 yards.

 

How many carries did he have when it was goal to go from within the 3 yard line? 15 TDs from within 3 yards in something like 20 carries is precisely what I'm talking about. He was 16 for 16 in 3rd And 1 opportunities. Does that not indicate that he is prety much unstoppable when a team needs only a yard or two to get either a TD or move the chains?

Edited January 8, 2006 by hammerhead johnson

[hammerhead johnson]

I don't think so, and the first name that comes to mind that disagrees with that is The Bus.

 

Alexander scored 20 TDs in 39 goal-to-go opportunites, was pretty much automatic from within 3 yards of the goal line, was 16 for 16 on 3rd and 1, etc.

 

Like I said, when the Seahawks have to get a yard or two, it's like having Shaq underneath the basket.

 

While Bettis is one of the best AT OR NEAR THE GOAL LINE rushers in NFL history, he's nowhere near what he once was, obviously. He can't f*** with Alexander right now. I'm assuming that you're only going on the Bears game, and that you didn't bother to check out his game log this year.

 

Bettis Game Log