Recruiting Thread

[Soxbadger]

If Boise State and TC played in the Big 10 they would have similar results to Illinois.

 

If Illinois played in a weaker conference than I would agree Zook can make a huge impact.

 

The problem is, Zook is now in a conference that has 2 teams that have arguably as much tradition as any schools in the nation. He is now geographically near Notre Dame another school that has a national presence.

 

If 17-18 year old kids only wanted to play, then home come guys like Mallet go to Michigan where they are going to sit on the bench?

 

Wisconsin has no QB for next year with Stocco going, any top QB recruit was being promised a chance to play next year.

 

No one cared.

 

Wisconsin instead got a transfer Everidge.

 

The top programs, get the top players. This isnt basketball where you have 1 and dones so being able to play the first season is a premium.

 

Many of the top FB players redshirt, then wait 2 years before ever seeing the field.

 

Thats just the way it is in college football, especially when you are in the Big 10. Almost every single top player is going to want to play for 3 schools first, Michigan, OSU, and ND. After that its a fight for what is left over.

 

Not that Iowa and Wisconsin etc havent fielded good teams, just I know my teams limitations. We are not going to outrecruit OSU, Michigan, etc until we win a national championship.

 

That is why I believe Zook being a great recruiter is negated by the conference he is in. Illinois will never have a better recruiting class than those 2 schools, and he has already proven to be a sub-par coach.

 

And the fact that Meyer has done awesome with Zook's players just goes to show that the players can only do so much if your coach does not have a clue.

Edited October 23, 2006 by Soxbadger

[ZoomSlowik]

Take LaMarcus Aldridge out of that, he was hurt a good chunk of his freshman season and didn't really help the 'Horns all that much. I don't consider an injury as a reason someone stays for their sophomore season...in other words, if he was healthy, he was gone.

 

Well, I was just saying you never know what can happen. Even before he got hurt he wasn't playing THAT well, and was probably a borderline lottery pick instead of the top-5 he expected.

 

Yes, Rose and Gordon both appear to be one-and-done's, but strange things have happened before.

[Rex Hudler]

We are talking about 17 y.o. kids here. They want to play and believe if they play they will get noticed. I know what you are saying, but if that was the case then programs like Boise State and TCU would never be good. Zook is not a great coach. But he knows what to tell kids to get them to come to his University. If I remember correctly, most of Florida's roster is still Zook players...except for Tebow, of course.

 

Kids want to play...do they want to make money in the NFL? Sure. But they want to play.

 

You just contradicted your own argument. Boise St and TCU get far from great recruiting classes. They win, because they get good players that are hungry to prove themselves and are coached well. To illustrate:

 

Boise State

2005

4-stars - 1

3-stars - 5

2-stars - 10

 

2006

3-stars - 3

2-stars - 14

 

2007

2-stars - 6

 

TCU

2005

4-stars - 1

3-stars - 6

2-stars - 14

 

2006

3-stars - 10

2-stars - 8

 

2007

4-stars - 1

3-stars - 2

2-stars - 5

 

Hardly great recruiting classes.

[Palehosefan]

To probably state the obvious, you can win big with either great coaching or great talent. Teams with higher ranked players have a better chance of succeeding, due to the greater room for error with coaching. If Zook can bring in top 25 classes at Illinois, he might be able to find some coordinators that can coach them up well enough to get some bowl games. If he doesn't, he will end up like John Bunting at UNC, great recruiting classes, nothing to show for it.

 

Mack Brown for instance, has always been the cream of the crop as a recruiter, and never has been a gameday coach, even at UNC. But he could always put enough talent on the field to beat lesser teams, he just couldn't ever beat FSU while at UNC, and OU at Texas for the longest time. He finally found a player in Vince Young that could overcome every coaching deficiency and beat all comers.

 

I have basically come up with an opinion that I think fits pretty well for college football. If you have a unique style, you can win big. When you accumulate the elite talent like USC or Texas, you can then run the normal pro-style offenses and pound people into oblivion. I'm going to be watching to see if Urban Meyer switches to a pro-style offense at Florida as his talent accumulates or if he will be relatively unique like his predacessor Steve Spurrier, who kept a unique style his entire tenure.

 

Another John Bunting example to fit, he always has tried to force his teams to run pro-style offenses and defenses, without the elite talent to do so, and it has been like pounding a square peg into a round hole, he was just too stubborn to change and it cost him his job.

 

Basically, I am interested to see if the Illini hire an OC with a spread attack to match Juice's talents or if he goes the way of Bunting.

[GoodAsGould]

It seems already with Juice Williams we are paying off with Zook and his recruits... give it some time and than maybe we can start winning some games. And than when you win some games more recruits come, Im not saying Illini will ever become a powerhouse, but with Zook and his ability to recruit.... it could be the right step.

[IlliniKrush]

I have basically come up with an opinion that I think fits pretty well for college football. If you have a unique style, you can win big. When you accumulate the elite talent like USC or Texas, you can then run the normal pro-style offenses and pound people into oblivion. I'm going to be watching to see if Urban Meyer switches to a pro-style offense at Florida as his talent accumulates or if he will be relatively unique like his predacessor Steve Spurrier, who kept a unique style his entire tenure.

 

I agree with this completely. I think it's one of the many things that makes college football interesting and fun, as well. Purdue has their spread offense, Nortwestern has the shotgun, etc. I like watching games where different styles of teams match up.

[whitesoxfan101]

The Illini's big issue has been special teams, ESPECIALLY punter and punt returner. If Duvalt was allowed to do PR's and Weatherford was still in school, the Illini win the Ohio and Indiana games and might also have won at Penn State, turning 2-6 into 4-4 or 5-3.

 

I agree with this completely. I think it's one of the many things that makes college football interesting and fun, as well. Purdue has their spread offense, Nortwestern has the shotgun, etc. I like watching games where different styles of teams match up.

 

Agreed as well. That reminds me though, that Wisconsin defense is A b**** to deal with. They have shut down just about everybody they've seen, and if they hadn't had to have dealt with Michigan at double A, they could be undefeated right now. Wisky and Rutgers are easily the 2 most underrated teams in the land right now imo.

 

You just contradicted your own argument. Boise St and TCU get far from great recruiting classes. They win, because they get good players that are hungry to prove themselves and are coached well. To illustrate:

 

Boise State

2005

4-stars - 1

3-stars - 5

2-stars - 10

 

2006

3-stars - 3

2-stars - 14

 

2007

2-stars - 6

 

TCU

2005

4-stars - 1

3-stars - 6

2-stars - 14

 

2006

3-stars - 10

2-stars - 8

 

2007

4-stars - 1

3-stars - 2

2-stars - 5

 

Hardly great recruiting classes.

 

Neither is in a BCS league though.

Edited October 24, 2006 by whitesoxfan101

[Gene Honda Civic]

I hate recruiting... but I saw this on YouTube... Thought some of you'd like to see video.

 

Tom Lemmings Top 10

 

Edited October 24, 2006 by Gene Honda Civic

[whitesoxfan101]

I hate recruiting... but I saw this on YouTube... Thought some of you'd like to see video.

 

Tom Lemmings Top 10

 

 

Man is Wisky going to be good for a while. They got 2 of those guys (Ogelsby is locked up, and Clay is all but locked up). The Illini have I'd say a significant shot at Benn, and a somewhat decent shot at Austin on that list as well. I hate Tom Lemming though, he's got a bigger Irish boner than Digger Phelps.

 

Oh, and the real #1 player in this class is Noel Devine IMO. Realistically, he's actually faster than 4.3 speed, and if he can keep his ass outta trouble off the field, he's a star in the making. Most exciting running back not named Reggie Bush to come out of HS since Hershel Walker.

[IlliniKrush]

The Illini's big issue has been special teams, ESPECIALLY punter and punt returner. If Duvalt was allowed to do PR's and Weatherford was still in school, the Illini win the Ohio and Indiana games and might also have won at Penn State, turning 2-6 into 4-4 or 5-3.

Kicking off the ball deep gainst IU also killed us.

[whitesoxfan101]

Kicking off the ball deep gainst IU also killed us.

 

Yeah, the coverage on the kicks hasn't been spectacular either. The special teams in general has sucked, but if they just didn't have E.B. back on punts and had a real punter, they'd be 4-4 and maybe even 5-3 right now. The defense actually has played significantly above average IMO for the most part, but has been screwed by turnovers and field position, especially the ladder.

[chimpy2121]

85% sure Benn is going to UofI next year.

 

Update:

 

According to a source, Benn has been more of an Illini lean than ND, and it's been that way since his visit. The article I just read makes Benn think that he could see playing time right away at FSU and he likes that. He said that we don't have any depth at WR and he would fit in to give Drew someone to throw to. I still think he's going to UofI though.

Edited October 24, 2006 by chimpy2121

[thedoctor]

85% sure Benn is going to UofI next year.

 

Update:

 

According to a source, Benn has been more of an Illini lean than ND, and it's been that way since his visit. The article I just read makes Benn think that he could see playing time right away at FSU and he likes that. He said that we don't have any depth at WR and he would fit in to give Drew someone to throw to. I still think he's going to UofI though.

 

surprising to say the least. although, maybe i shouldn't be.

[CanOfCorn]

Illinois has tradition, not Michigan or Ohio State tradition, but there's a lot of tradition there...what Illinois has to fight is the three straight crap coaches they have had. Mackovic is a train wreck, just ask Texas fans, Lou Tepper couldn't coach OR recruit and Turner could coach, but couldn't recruit defense. So, if you ask me, and this is TOTALLY unfair to Ron Zook, but let Zook recruit, get Illinois respectable, at least in the same breath with Purdue, Iowa, and Wisconsin and then get a big name coach in...overpay if you have to...I'm not even going to speculate on who, but maybe someone with midwest ties that has coached in Florida or Texas.

 

Like I said, that's TOTALLY unfair to Zook, but it might be the only way the Illini can stay in the top half of the Big Ten.

 

On another note, does anyone know is Zook is a control freak or does he let his coordinators make the playcalls?

[thedoctor]

let me also pick up for zook a bit as a coach.

 

i'm not going to claim the guy is a great gameday coach. clearly, he has his shortcomings and he makes some head-scratching decisions from time-to-time. most of that stuff is well-chronicled.

 

but, if you are going to hold him accountable for some of the offensive and special teams stupidity, then you also must give him credit for the defensive turnaround illinois has seen. are they a great defense yet? not even close, but they are hugely improved over last year. the numbers are significant.

 

last year illinois gave up abou 470 yards a game. this year the average is 300. last year they gave up almost 40 points a game, and this year they are surrendering 25. last year illinois gave up 54 touchdowns all season, and this year they've given up 17.

 

now those number could go up, considering wisky and osu are next. but, they could also go down with purdue and northwestern following that.

[IlliniKrush]

let me also pick up for zook a bit as a coach.

 

i'm not going to claim the guy is a great gameday coach. clearly, he has his shortcomings and he makes some head-scratching decisions from time-to-time. most of that stuff is well-chronicled.

 

but, if you are going to hold him accountable for some of the offensive and special teams stupidity, then you also must give him credit for the defensive turnaround illinois has seen. are they a great defense yet? not even close, but they are hugely improved over last year. the numbers are significant.

 

last year illinois gave up abou 470 yards a game. this year the average is 300. last year they gave up almost 40 points a game, and this year they are surrendering 25. last year illinois gave up 54 touchdowns all season, and this year they've given up 17.

 

now those number could go up, considering wisky and osu are next. but, they could also go down with purdue and northwestern following that.

New DC Vince Okruch

[SnB]

Illinois has tradition, not Michigan or Ohio State tradition, but there's a lot of tradition there...what Illinois has to fight is the three straight crap coaches they have had.

oh this could definitely be a gigantic football school, there really isn't too much doubt about that.

 

The program is making baby steps in the right direction and I'm perfectly OK with that for the time being.

[chimpy2121]

Living in Florida and knowing what it's like at UofI and Illinois as a state, I can truly appreciate Zooks recruiting. He's getting all these top players from Florida to have UofI in the top 5. I can't understand as the team has lost to Ohio and a d2a school, but damn...he's doing something right there. I dont know if you guys heard, but D'Lo McCray has you guys in the top 3 with Ole Miss and UF (i think he's a Ole Miss lean though).

 

To Zook's recruiting...

 

 

I could only wish to see what Norm Chow could do at FSU in terms of offense and recruiting...too bad I'll never see though, because Bobby is a stuborn S.O.B. who thinks this team is really good right now.

[thedoctor]

New DC Vince Okruch

 

of course. or okrush as they say.

[Soxbadger]

Where do you hear Clay is a lock for Wisconsin?

 

All I hear is that Clay is very questionable and that it could be either him or Dale Martin.

 

There is also a very high possibility that Wisconsin gets neither of these players, as Clay has been constantly linked to OSU, even if it means that he has to switch to LB.

 

But that just goes to show how long and hard the road is in football to turn around a program. Wisconsin has 3 Rose Bowl wins in the last 10 years or so. They still are not even close to being one of the elite recruiting teams in the Big 10 and they still have trouble keeping top recruits away from Michigan and OSU.

 

As to Wisconsin being underrated, I posted about this before the season started. I asked how could Auburn be top 10, and Wisconsin unranked when Wisconsin thrashed Auburn last year and basically brought back a better team. In the bowl game against Auburn the d-line was so thin Joe Thomas played DT.

 

It is a shame that Wisconsin played Michigan early in the season, because they still had not found their identity and had problems with having all new WR's.

 

Barring any upsets the game against Iowa should determine who is the 3rd team in the Big 10, as its doubtful either Michigan or OSU loses 2 games, or both lose 1 game.

[whitesoxfan101]

Where do you hear Clay is a lock for Wisconsin?

 

All I hear is that Clay is very questionable and that it could be either him or Dale Martin.

 

There is also a very high possibility that Wisconsin gets neither of these players, as Clay has been constantly linked to OSU, even if it means that he has to switch to LB.

 

But that just goes to show how long and hard the road is in football to turn around a program. Wisconsin has 3 Rose Bowl wins in the last 10 years or so. They still are not even close to being one of the elite recruiting teams in the Big 10 and they still have trouble keeping top recruits away from Michigan and OSU.

 

As to Wisconsin being underrated, I posted about this before the season started. I asked how could Auburn be top 10, and Wisconsin unranked when Wisconsin thrashed Auburn last year and basically brought back a better team. In the bowl game against Auburn the d-line was so thin Joe Thomas played DT.

 

It is a shame that Wisconsin played Michigan early in the season, because they still had not found their identity and had problems with having all new WR's.

 

Barring any upsets the game against Iowa should determine who is the 3rd team in the Big 10, as its doubtful either Michigan or OSU loses 2 games, or both lose 1 game.

 

Agreed, good post. As for Clay, I've heard he's been a silent verbal to Wisky for a while now, but then again, my sources were dead wrong on Gordon, so take it FWIW.

[Spod=Ratings]

Hey chimpy where did you get that thing about Benn?

 

JW because i've been wanting the Illini to get him so bad and that is great news

Edited October 24, 2006 by Spod=Ratings

[Soxbadger]

There is a possibility Clay has silently verballed also.

 

There were some posts at Badger sites earlier in the season that part of the reason Clay was waiting was so that scouts would see the rest of his team.

 

It is much more important for Wisconsin to land Clay than an OSU, because Wisconsin needs to start retaining its top in-state talent. It is not often that Wisconsin will produce 2 of the top recruits nationally (Clay and Ogelsby).

 

It is Bielema's first year coaching and first year without Alvarez to help him, so there are still some questions of what he can do in terms of recruiting and what his teams are going to be like.

 

I like what I have seen so far, but still think they need to use the shotgun. Against a team like Michigan with dominant front 4, it could of been the difference.

[whitesoxfan101]

Hey chimpy where did you get that thing about Benn?

 

JW because i've been wanting the Illini to get him so bad and that is great news

 

Still a long way to go with Benn. Illinois has taken the lead on ND, but now FSU is in the picture. At earliest, that thing will get settled at the Army AA game in San Antonio in January.

[whitesox61382]

85% sure Benn is going to UofI next year.

 

Update:

 

According to a source, Benn has been more of an Illini lean than ND, and it's been that way since his visit. The article I just read makes Benn think that he could see playing time right away at FSU and he likes that. He said that we don't have any depth at WR and he would fit in to give Drew someone to throw to. I still think he's going to UofI though.

 

I am not sure that I trust a random paragraph relying on an unnamed source. It could simple be an UI fans wishful thinking. According to the most recent insider article, after Benn's visit to FSU(including quotes directly from Benn), he said that all three schools are dead even and that there are no favorites at this point. Take it with a grain of salt if you want, but I trust quotes from Benn over some random source. I really think that it will still come down to UI or ND though, FSU's chances are at their highest right now after his visit, so the longer it goes the less likely he will pick FSU IMO.