Recruiting Thread

[thedoctor]

That, of course, is the devil's advocate position on it. He couldn't close. That is a factually correct statement. Do doubt.

 

But, I do believe there was some extracurriculars and some extenuating circumstances involved in all three of the aforementioned cases.

 

However, my point remains. Had he locked up Gordon, all of the "Weber can't recruit" talk (which does appear to be accurate at this point in time) would have disappeared.

 

I just can't believe a coach so good with the X's and O's can't pull in at least one or two five-stars, say, every other year. He's going to have to really refine his skills in the recruitment department--or align himself with some recruiting "wiz-kid"--or he will be on the hot seat despite his Wins and Losses.

 

i do think there were some extenuating circumstances in a lot of the misses. but if he got one out of wright, collins, scheyer, gordon, or rose, probably the criticism is much more muted. to go 0-5 on that just looks bad, even if the circumstances dictated that you probably didn't have a real chance at the end of the day.

 

i'm not sure how i expect him to improve this. some have questioned the assistant coaches and shaking up the staff, but i can't really say i'm familiar with how recruiting is divvied up to say who should go and who should stay. there are other ideas: offer kids earlier, try to force kids to take offers by saying it could go to someone else, being more "friendly" with kids, promising playing time, etc. but again, i'm not implicitly familiar with what is being done now, so it's hard to make an informed suggestion.

 

generally, i do think there is hope. as talent often does in the state, we seem to be heading into a cycle when downstate talent is better. that has usually boded well for us. plus, we are in very good shape with the top 2010 kid (richmond) and the top 2009 kids (bertrand and richardson). in 2008 i know we are in on some good kids.

 

but again, we just have to close. if over the next three years you pull in suggs, dunigan, bertrand, richardson, and richmond, i doubt anyone will be complaining. if you whiff on all those kids or most, you have to wonder.

Edited March 13, 2007 by thedoctor

[GoodAsGould]

Maybe h can just have a sit down with Zook and learn from him, Zook is arguably the best football recruiter in the country and if not the best near the top... im sure he could give Webber a few tips.

[fathom]

That, of course, is the devil's advocate position on it. He couldn't close. That is a factually correct statement. No doubt.

 

But, I do believe there were some extracurriculars and some extenuating circumstances involved in all three of the aforementioned cases.

 

However, my point remains. Had he locked up Gordon, all of the "Weber can't recruit" talk (which does appear to be accurate at this point in time) would have disappeared.

 

I just can't believe a coach so good with the X's and O's can't pull in at least one or two five-stars, say, every other year. He's going to have to really refine his skills in the recruitment department--or align himself with some recruiting "wiz-kid"--or he will be on the hot seat despite his Wins and Losses.

 

I speak with 100 pct certainty that Julian Wright laughed off Bruce Weber's in-home visit. Julian told his friends/coaches that the presentation was minor leaguish, and he couldn't imagine any high school stud wanting to play for him. I've never confirmed this part of it, but a certain high-profile member of the team told JW to go to Kansas and play for Self.

[IlliniKrush]

i do think there were some extenuating circumstances in a lot of the misses. but if he got one out of wright, collins, scheyer, gordon, or rose, probably the criticism is much more muted. to go 0-5 on that just looks bad, even if the circumstances dictated that you probably didn't have a real chance at the end of the day.

 

i'm not sure how i expect him to improve this. some have questioned the assistant coaches and shaking up the staff, but i can't really say i'm familiar with how recruiting is divvied up to say who should go and who should stay. there are other ideas: offer kids earlier, try to force kids to take offers by saying it could go to someone else, being more "friendly" with kids, promising playing time, etc. but again, i'm not implicitly familiar with what is being done now, so it's hard to make an informed suggestion.

 

generally, i do think there is hope. as talent often does in the state, we seem to be heading into a cycle when downstate talent is better. that has usually boded well for us. plus, we are in very good shape with the top 2010 kid (richmond) and the top 2009 kids (bertrand and richardson). in 2008 i know we are in on some good kids.

 

but again, we just have to close. if over the next three years you pull in suggs, dunigan, bertrand, richardson, and richmond, i doubt anyone will be complaining. if you whiff on all those kids or most, you have to wonder.

Well put my friend. Also nice posts by Addy.

 

None of us really know exactly what's going on behind closed doors with recruiting; we just see the results. That's why i get so sick of the 'weber can't recruit' talk because we don't know what he is/isn't doing to lure them here, or for that matter why exactly recruits go elsewhere at the last minute.

 

I wish i had an answer but i don't. I just hope something changes a little bit, as changing something seems to be a decent idea right now.

 

I also have the hope that you have. I see things turning around soon. I think the fact that he stopped the season from being an absolute train wreck with all the injuries and other problems will help a ton.

 

Now as far as getting help from Zook, I can't help but think that they have talked here or there about recruiting philosophies. Zook clearly knows a thing or two since he's recruited to a pretty much dormant football program. However, at the end of the day Weber is going to do things his way/the way that he feels will work best. What that way is i'm not quite sure, I just hope it works...or he thinks about changing a thing or two to maybe improve his chances with some of these guys in the future.

 

Recruiting is such an inexact science and there are just so many variables. I often wonder if i was a recruit, what would i look for? What would make my decision? I wish some former coach would come out with a book on everything and anything about recruiting, as I think it would be fascinating (and if this book is already out than i'm not aware of it). It's something I think all of us wish we knew more about. It's not as black and white as signing guys to X money for X years or trading guys with X stats for other guys with X stats.

Edited March 13, 2007 by IlliniKrush

[AddisonStSox]

Well put my friend. Also nice posts by Addy.

 

None of us really know exactly what's going on behind closed doors with recruiting; we just see the results. That's why i get so sick of the 'weber can't recruit' talk because we don't know what he is/isn't doing to lure them here, or for that matter why exactly recruits go elsewhere at the last minute.

 

I wish i had an answer but i don't. I just hope something changes a little bit, as changing something seems to be a decent idea right now.

 

I also have the hope that you have. I see things turning around soon. I think the fact that he stopped the season from being an absolute train wreck with all the injuries and other problems will help a ton.

 

Now as far as getting help from Zook, I can't help but think that they have talked here or there about recruiting philosophies. Zook clearly knows a thing or two since he's recruited to a pretty much dormant football program. However, at the end of the day Weber is going to do things his way/the way that he feels will work best. What that way is i'm not quite sure, I just hope it works...or he thinks about changing a thing or two to maybe improve his chances with some of these guys in the future.

 

Recruiting is such an inexact science and there are just so many variables. I often wonder if i was a recruit, what would i look for? What would make my decision? I wish some former coach would come out with a book on everything and everything about recruiting, as I think it would be fascinating (and if this book is already out than i'm not aware of it). It's something I think all of us wish we knew more about. It's not as black and white as signing guys to X money for X years or trading guys with X stats for other guys with X stats.

 

Very nice post, Krush. I always enjoy the Illini discussions the most when you, doc, Corn, and Steve are involved.

 

At this point of the discussion, I would like to add this first-hand information I have heard with my own ears. Speaking with Illini-commit Bill Cole's sister (already a student here at the U of I), I learned that Bruce really does take strides to endear himself with his recruits. She overheard a discussion on basically this same topic (Weber's recruiting woes) and felt compelled to add that Bruce text-messages her kid brother almost every day, calls the house to see how both school and the family and going, and keeps an open line of communication for any questions the recruit may have along the way.

 

Personally, I think Weber is a real cerebral guy--perhaps more cerebral than, say, Bill Self. From all accounts, Weber does not try to be these kids' best friend. He attempts to blend "friend" along with "coach/mentor." I don't think that approach gets you as far as it used to--say when guy's like Lute, Bob Knight, and company were in on all the nation's top recruits.

 

I think today's recruit is looking for something else. What, exactly? I do not know. But, I am confident Weber can adapt. He sounds like a guy intent on keeping a clean program, and I would guess that may have hurt him in the past--but, that karma-train is bound to come around at some point.

 

Hell, even in some "bad" years, he is bringing in Big Ten talent, and that much is undeniable. I am looking forward to this class and I think guys like Tisdale and, especially, Q. Watkins are going to be very nice, very competitive Big Ten players--don't forget about McCamey.

 

Keep up the good discussion here--this is a rarity!!!

[CanOfCorn]

Gordon REALLY wanted to go to IU. Scheyer REALLY wanted to go to Duke. Can't help those. What bothers me isn't a Weber problem, it's a U of I problem. Ever since the Jimmy Collins thing, they haven't had that much luck recruiting Chicago and they need to. They are fine with the suburbs and with Peoria (especially with McClain there). And they need to ramp up with the St. Louis area again.

 

Illinois can recruit as a program and as long as they stay competitive, they will get a top recruit. But, if I remember correctly, Deron Williams wasn't that highly rated. I'd rather have 3 and 4 star recruits that are highly coachable than a one-and-done player.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I speak with 100 pct certainty that Julian Wright laughed off Bruce Weber's in-home visit. Julian told his friends/coaches that the presentation was minor leaguish, and he couldn't imagine any high school stud wanting to play for him. I've never confirmed this part of it, but a certain high-profile member of the team told JW to go to Kansas and play for Self.

 

Supposedly there was strong, real interest in DePaul. Don't quote me, but I believe it was his mom that realy wanted him to stay home. Oh well.

 

 

And my 2 cents: weber doesn't seem like a "people person". Just not very smooth and personable. Can't deny the x's and o's, though. The whining about "another player" on another team who played after he got arrested recently, for example, makes him seem...I dunno...just not very personable.

[whitesox61382]

A couple things(adding to Aboz’s points) to consider when comparing Illinois and Indiana’s incoming classes for next year(minus Gordon).

 

1)Rivals doesn’t put much emphasize on JC players. Ellis has only a 3 star rating on Rivals despite the fact that he is a consensus top 5 JC player(#1 overall in some rankings) and likely 1 of the top 50 players entering the college ranks next year(when considering all avenues – US high school, international, and JC). Scout does a much better job of incorporating JC players into their rankings.

 

2)Holman is probably rated lower than he should/could be. Holman missed most of his junior and parts of his senior year to a suspension, but when on the court he is one of the top big men in the country. He is an automatic triple double at the high school level and shot up the Rivals ranking shortly after being reinstated and playing only a handful of games. Unlike a lot of athletic high school big men, he also has a decent offensive game at this point as well. If he played his entire junior/senior seasons, than he would probably be a top 50 overall player as well.

 

3)In regards to Illinois class being more well-rounded, I have to question that as well. Indiana has two good combo guards in Crawford and Gordon. Neither are true PG, but both can be used as primary ball handlers(both have good size as well at 6’3 and 6’4 respectfully). At 6’5 with good athleticism, Ellis can play either the 2 or 3 and be a match-up problem. McGee is kind of a in between a 3 and a 4, but at 6’7 220lb he should have no problem playing the 4 in the Big Ten. Holman is 6’9, but with his reach and athleticism plays closer to 7’0 and will be a very good 5 in the Big Ten. So I would argue that Indiana does have a very well-rounded class coming in next year.

 

I don’t think that Weber is a terrible recruiter, however, he needs to do a better job of locking down the Chicago area and closing with blue chip caliber recruits. Sampson doesn’t have a track record as a great recruiter either(minus his last class at OU), so it will be interesting to see if he can continue to land blue chip caliber recruits at IU and combine good X’s and O’s coaching with good recruiting. He understands the importance of keeping top Indiana players instate, and that is a key. It will be interesting to see if he opens up his coaching style a little(a little more offensive) if he is able to land blue chip recruits on a consistent basis.

[aboz56]

A couple things(adding to Aboz’s points) to consider when comparing Illinois and Indiana’s incoming classes for next year(minus Gordon).

 

1)Rivals doesn’t put much emphasize on JC players. Ellis has only a 3 star rating on Rivals despite the fact that he is a consensus top 5 JC player(#1 overall in some rankings) and likely 1 of the top 50 players entering the college ranks next year(when considering all avenues – US high school, international, and JC). Scout does a much better job of incorporating JC players into their rankings.

 

2)Holman is probably rated lower than he should/could be. Holman missed most of his junior and parts of his senior year to a suspension, but when on the court he is one of the top big men in the country. He is an automatic triple double at the high school level and shot up the Rivals ranking shortly after being reinstated and playing only a handful of games. Unlike a lot of athletic high school big men, he also has a decent offensive game at this point as well. If he played his entire junior/senior seasons, than he would probably be a top 50 overall player as well.

 

3)In regards to Illinois class being more well-rounded, I have to question that as well. Indiana has two good combo guards in Crawford and Gordon. Neither are true PG, but both can be used as primary ball handlers(both have good size as well at 6’3 and 6’4 respectfully). At 6’5 with good athleticism, Ellis can play either the 2 or 3 and be a match-up problem. McGee is kind of a in between a 3 and a 4, but at 6’7 220lb he should have no problem playing the 4 in the Big Ten. Holman is 6’9, but with his reach and athleticism plays closer to 7’0 and will be a very good 5 in the Big Ten. So I would argue that Indiana does have a very well-rounded class coming in next year.

 

I don’t think that Weber is a terrible recruiter, however, he needs to do a better job of locking down the Chicago area and closing with blue chip caliber recruits. Sampson doesn’t have a track record as a great recruiter either(minus his last class at OU), so it will be interesting to see if he can continue to land blue chip caliber recruits at IU and combine good X’s and O’s coaching with good recruiting. He understands the importance of keeping top Indiana players instate, and that is a key. It will be interesting to see if he opens up his coaching style a little(a little more offensive) if he is able to land blue chip recruits on a consistent basis.

 

Agree with all of your points and this is one helluva discussion going on here. A breath of fresh air for the site IMO. We've actually got IU and U of I fans talking recruiting and there's no flaming going on, who woulda thunk it?

 

Personally, speaking on what I know (which is a lot in this case given connections and what not), I really think that the Gordon situation was an anamoly and shouldn't be a reflection that Weber "can't close" with top flight recruits. I can't speak to the other situations (i.e. Scheyer, Collins, Wright), but to this one I can.

 

Quite often in recruiting kids who give early verbals commitments end up somewhere else. This happens frequently in football recruiting and it does happen in basketball recruiting, but it is much more scrutinized in the case of basketball simply because it doesn't happen as often.

 

In the case of Eric Gordon, you have a kid who simply did not want to be a part of the IU program as long as Mike Davis remained coached. The same can be said for Mike Conley Jr and others over the past few seasons that Davis was the coach at Indiana. Once Sampson took the IU job and put Meyer on his staff, the connection to the Gordon family became quite apparent. When Sampson was hired, he talked specifically about needing to recruit Indiana better and he got to work immediately on Eric Gordon. Admittedly he made a mistake in not contacting Bruce Weber, but we've been over all of this.

 

I believe Bruce Weber is a fine coach and is also probably a man of high values and while I realize that the easy thing to do with the Gordon situation is to pile onto Weber, I think that's just wrong in this case. To say he couldn't close the deal is wrong, in this specific case. I think the same thing would have happened if Gordon would have been committed elsewhere. Weber will get the recruiting turned around at Illinois, he already has a nice start this year and even if he doesn't land 5-star recruits, he will still pick up solid recruits who fit well into the program and will make Illinois successful year in and year out.

[thedoctor]

Gordon REALLY wanted to go to IU. Scheyer REALLY wanted to go to Duke. Can't help those. What bothers me isn't a Weber problem, it's a U of I problem. Ever since the Jimmy Collins thing, they haven't had that much luck recruiting Chicago and they need to. They are fine with the suburbs and with Peoria (especially with McClain there). And they need to ramp up with the St. Louis area again.

 

Illinois can recruit as a program and as long as they stay competitive, they will get a top recruit. But, if I remember correctly, Deron Williams wasn't that highly rated. I'd rather have 3 and 4 star recruits that are highly coachable than a one-and-done player.

 

i think the chicago thing gets overplayed sometimes. there's no doubt we can do better (primarily with some of the top-rated kids) but illinois has had a consistent cpl presence on its roster for a pretty long period of time if you think about it. not many other teams (any really) have that distinction.

 

the fallacy in thinking about the cpl (not saying this is what you are saying) is that it's ever going to be "locked down" by anyone. the cpl is pretty freakin big, so to think you'll get every kid you want out of there just isn't realistic. some kids just don't like illinois.

 

the cpl will also be a bit down this coming year. dunigan and liggins are really the only two kids i'd want, and even dunigan not so much. things don't look great for liggins, tho.

[CanOfCorn]

i think the chicago thing gets overplayed sometimes. there's no doubt we can do better (primarily with some of the top-rated kids) but illinois has had a consistent cpl presence on its roster for a pretty long period of time if you think about it. not many other teams (any really) have that distinction.

 

the fallacy in thinking about the cpl (not saying this is what you are saying) is that it's ever going to be "locked down" by anyone. the cpl is pretty freakin big, so to think you'll get every kid you want out of there just isn't realistic. some kids just don't like illinois.

 

the cpl will also be a bit down this coming year. dunigan and liggins are really the only two kids i'd want, and even dunigan not so much. things don't look great for liggins, tho.

 

 

Not everyone, of course, cuz there are cpl players all over the country, like you said, but Illinois should be in the final 3 of every 4 or 5 star qualifying senior, IMO. Now, not all of them are going to go to the U of I. Some will go to the NBA (Kevin Garnett), some will got to a school they have always liked (Jon Scheyer) and some will go to a school that maybe recruited them harder and some just won't like U of I. BUT, Illinois should AT LEAST be in the running. Go after them as best as you can. Maybe pick up an ass't coach/up and coming high school coach from the cpl or has a good relationship with the cpl.

 

Just a thought. I'm glad that IU and the U of I has become relevant again. I loved the Lou 'Do/General match-ups.

[Rex Hudler]

I'm going to throw a little defense Bruce Weber's way.

 

While the Head Coach is ultimately responsible for recruiting the players the program gets, recruiting classes can be made or broken by assistant coaches. It is the assistants that do most of the legwork and beging the relationship building. If the assistant coaches aren't doing their job well, the Head Coach has an uphill battle if he even gets a shot. An assistant that is great at recruiting will put his Head Coach ahead of the game.

 

A great example of that is Ohio St. Jim Groce. Apparently he is a relentless recruiter and develops a great rapport with the kids. There was an excellent article about him in this year's Rivals Recruiting Yearbook. He was named their basketball recruiter of the year. I tried to find the article on Rivals site, but had no luck. It is very apparent he is setting up Thad Matta to win.

 

I know nothing about Illinois' assistants, and not much more about Indiana's in terms of recruiting ability, but I would venture to guess that either would be very lucky to have a guy like Groce doing the heavy lifting in recruiting.

[whitesoxfan101]

I know nothing about Illinois' assistants

 

They are a complete JOKE in recruiting, yet Bruce remains loyal to them. That is as big a problem as in for Illinois recruiting.

[thedoctor]

I'm going to throw a little defense Bruce Weber's way.

 

While the Head Coach is ultimately responsible for recruiting the players the program gets, recruiting classes can be made or broken by assistant coaches. It is the assistants that do most of the legwork and beging the relationship building. If the assistant coaches aren't doing their job well, the Head Coach has an uphill battle if he even gets a shot. An assistant that is great at recruiting will put his Head Coach ahead of the game.

 

A great example of that is Ohio St. Jim Groce. Apparently he is a relentless recruiter and develops a great rapport with the kids. There was an excellent article about him in this year's Rivals Recruiting Yearbook. He was named their basketball recruiter of the year. I tried to find the article on Rivals site, but had no luck. It is very apparent he is setting up Thad Matta to win.

 

I know nothing about Illinois' assistants, and not much more about Indiana's in terms of recruiting ability, but I would venture to guess that either would be very lucky to have a guy like Groce doing the heavy lifting in recruiting.

 

you know, i agree to a point, but i also know what matta does. this was posted on one of the illinois boards a few months ago (i may have already even put it here) but groce had some pretty pointed things to say about matta's role in the process:

 

Recruiting is something you do every day. Some people think, “Is this a recruiting time of year?” But it really is 365 days a year. It’s something you need to wake up thinking about every day. The beauty of it is that each situation in recruiting is different. It involves reading people, connecting with people. The thing I like about Thad and Ohio State when it comes to recruiting, is that Thad works like an assistant coach when it comes to recruiting and I look at that as a positive thing. He is a grinder. He’ll do whatever he has to do from a recruiting standpoint. I’d like to say that all head coaches are like that, but they’re not. So it makes our job as a staff easier when you have a guy like Thad to sell. He is very genuine, people like him, he treats people well, he’s respectful, and people feel those things. Forget him being at Ohio State or being a good Xs and Os guy, he’s just a good person. So that makes my job easier.

 

anyhow, i'm not sure how this relates directly to weber. situations are different. i do think he clearly has to play a bigger role, considering the mistakes that have happened under his watch.

[CanOfCorn]

They are a complete JOKE in recruiting, yet Bruce remains loyal to them. That is as big a problem as in for Illinois recruiting.

 

I think Wayne McClain has done a pretty damn good job keeping the Peoria pipeline going. I don't know too much about the rest of the guys.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I'm going to throw a little defense Bruce Weber's way.

 

While the Head Coach is ultimately responsible for recruiting the players the program gets, recruiting classes can be made or broken by assistant coaches. It is the assistants that do most of the legwork and beging the relationship building. If the assistant coaches aren't doing their job well, the Head Coach has an uphill battle if he even gets a shot. An assistant that is great at recruiting will put his Head Coach ahead of the game.

 

A great example of that is Ohio St. Jim Groce. Apparently he is a relentless recruiter and develops a great rapport with the kids. There was an excellent article about him in this year's Rivals Recruiting Yearbook. He was named their basketball recruiter of the year. I tried to find the article on Rivals site, but had no luck. It is very apparent he is setting up Thad Matta to win.

 

I know nothing about Illinois' assistants, and not much more about Indiana's in terms of recruiting ability, but I would venture to guess that either would be very lucky to have a guy like Groce doing the heavy lifting in recruiting.

 

Since coaches choose their assistants, isn't that just more reason to 'blame' him?

[Jimbo's Drinker]

I think Wayne McClain has done a pretty damn good job keeping the Peoria pipeline going. I don't know too much about the rest of the guys.

 

 

Wasn't McClain the coach at Peoria Central, not that hard of a pipeline. Though the pipeline is not that active the last few years.

[thedoctor]

Wasn't McClain the coach at Peoria Central, not that hard of a pipeline. Though the pipeline is not that active the last few years.

 

mcclain was the coach at peoria manual. that area has been "down" the past few years, although it is heading into another more talent-rich cycle now.

[nitetrain8601]

Solution is simple, re-hire Jimmy Collins as an assistant so he can reopen that connection between UofI and the city public schools. Until they do that or get Bill Self back, UofI is screwed with Bruce Weber.

[CanOfCorn]

Solution is simple, re-hire Jimmy Collins as an assistant so he can reopen that connection between UofI and the city public schools. Until they do that or get Bill Self back, UofI is screwed with Bruce Weber.

 

Jimmy Collins won't come back unless it's a head coaching job, and even then, I doubt that would happen. They need to go the way of McClain and hire a high school coach from the cpl.

[AddisonStSox]

Angel Santiago. What's the skinny on this kid?

[thedoctor]

Angel Santiago. What's the skinny on this kid?

 

santiago is an interesting case. i'm actually not surprised he surfaced on our radar.

 

really tough upbringing and a lot of scuttlebutt when he was in high school that suggested he was a bad seed. not a dumb kid per se (20 on the act) but just people who wondered if his head was screwed on straight. some of the negativity came when he spurned a high profile aau coach to train with the puerto rican national team.

 

anyhow, his crappy high school grades (lack of effort, not intelligence, folks say) led him to juco. since then he's put up decent, although not spectacular numbers and has stayed out of the police blotter.

 

of the candidates who have been mentioned for a fifth scholarship, he is one of the more intriguing. he's more of a scoring point guard, not a fantastic three-point shooter but a good penetrator and someone who brings some excitement to the table. i'll be curious to see what our interest ends up being.

[AddisonStSox]

santiago is an interesting case. i'm actually not surprised he surfaced on our radar.

 

really tough upbringing and a lot of scuttlebutt when he was in high school that suggested he was a bad seed. not a dumb kid per se (20 on the act) but just people who wondered if his head was screwed on straight. some of the negativity came when he spurned a high profile aau coach to train with the puerto rican national team.

 

anyhow, his crappy high school grades (lack of effort, not intelligence, folks say) led him to juco. since then he's put up decent, although not spectacular numbers and has stayed out of the police blotter.

 

of the candidates who have been mentioned for a fifth scholarship, he is one of the more intriguing. he's more of a scoring point guard, not a fantastic three-point shooter but a good penetrator and someone who brings some excitement to the table. i'll be curious to see what our interest ends up being.

 

It sounds like there are better options out there for the fifth scholarship. Not only does this kid have well-documented character issues, but, there are some outstanding guards in the 2008 class that should get a look. Unless, of course, Jamar Smith is out for good, I think Weber should either put that fifth scholarship in his back pockets, or, if a guy like Baines shows you something, bring in a wing like that.

 

If this kid were to come here and cause more headaches for the Illinois basketball program, Weber would have some serious egg on his face and I just don't think that is a risk worth taking--not for those pedestrian JuCo numbers.

[nitetrain8601]

Angel Santiago is kind of like Steve Francis. They're both dynamic high energy guys and take it to the hole alot. That's their whole offense really. Like Francis, for whatever reason, he doesn't have his head on completely straight. For Illinois, I'd say he's a good risk to take with Weber recruiting because they haven't been able to land anyone significant with him as coach.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Angel was AMAZING in high school. I remember being 100% certain he would be big-time. Looks like he still has a chance to be just that.