UC76 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Q: Peter: Knowing how difficult it is to repeat, what do you think of the White Sox post-series model of aggressively moving to resign key leaders (Konerko) and locking up young arbitration eligibles (Garland/Pierzynski), and trading spare parts? PeterGammons: I thought the White Sox did a great job moving forward. One thing that was interesting talking to both ownership and FO during offseason. They realize a lot of things went right for them to win. They went out and made changes. Getting Jim Thome was a great move. Also, the Javier Vazquez move was good one as well since DB were also talking to Indians about Vazquez. Signing Garland gives opportunity to trade him or Contreras when a team gets desperate for pitching. Kenny Williams proving to be one of the best GMs in the game. He understands that the game is entirely based on pitching. Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Also, the Javier Vazquez move was good one as well since DB were also talking to Indians about Vazquez I liked the Vazquez trade a lot when it happened... Now, I LOVE it. Keeping Vazquez away from the Indians is almost bigger than us getting him. Realize that means we kept the Indians from getting Thome AND Vazquez this off season, AND we managed to add them to OUR team. More Kdub love here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Top 3 GM in the game. He's not the best trader, or the best when it comes to negotiating, but when the dust settles, he has had a great team on the field going into the season the past 2 years, with virtually no holes. He has gone the route of putting just enough offense on the field the past two years while overloading with pitching, and it worked extremely well last year, and I see no reason it will not work again next year. Lots of kudos to KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I think he's one of the best traders in the game, after all, how many of the guys that he traded turned into anything?! MAYBE 1?! And as a result, did we not win a World SERIOUS?! Prospects are a dime a dozen. World Titles...are not. I'd trade our ENTIRE FARM away for another one, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 01:49 PM) Top 3 GM in the game. He's not the best trader, or the best when it comes to negotiating, but when the dust settles, he has had a great team on the field going into the season the past 2 years, with virtually no holes. He has gone the route of putting just enough offense on the field the past two years while overloading with pitching, and it worked extremely well last year, and I see no reason it will not work again next year. Lots of kudos to KW. Who are the other 2 GM's? It is hard to say that anyone has done a better job in the last 2 offseasons than KW has. He brought in Ozzie, then made a ton of other bold moves. I think there are only 4 starters left from opening day 2004. Paulie, Crede, Mark, and Jon. That is one hell of a turnover while winning a World Championship and fielding another winner for 2006. 83 wins to 99 wins and a WS Championship in one year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(RME JICO @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 01:40 PM) Who are the other 2 GM's? It is hard to say that anyone has done a better job in the last 2 offseasons than KW has. He brought in Ozzie, then made a ton of other bold moves. I think there are only 4 starters left from opening day 2004. Paulie, Crede, Mark, and Jon. That is one hell of a turnover while winning a World Championship and fielding another winner for 2006. 83 wins to 99 wins and a WS Championship in one year. Top 3 does not imply KW is 3rd best...it implies he's one of the best 3 GMs in the game. That's not bad at all. To clarify a little more about my personal opinion, I think KW is probably a top 2 GM along side Billy Beane. I'm probably stirring the pot a little bit by talking about Beane, but he put out a very good defensive team last year with a relatively solid but young pitching staff to go along side a good offense...all while "rebuilding." He nearly won the west and he's in a very good position to actually do so this year. The A's won atleast 90 games in a season for 5 straight seasons(00-04), and won 88 last year after getting off to a 17-32 start...it's hard to deny him as one of the best GMs in the game. I'm not saying this of course because of Moneyball...though it probably helps...and I'm not saying it solely because he's a sabermetric GM, because I thought DePodesta did a pretty mediocre job in LA, and Ricciardi has been mediocre in Toronto too. At the very least...KW and Beane are 1-2 in whatever order you wish...atleast I figure they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I think Kenny is the best GM out there today. When a team wins a title normally its all that team can do to get everybody back for another shot at it the next season. Not only has KW got everybody back but he's made moves that made this team noticeably better. How many Championship GM's out there can make the claim that their team was far better the next season after winning it all. I bet you money thats a pretty select group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I think you have to include Schuerholz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 02:09 PM) I think you have to include Schuerholz. True Dat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 02:09 PM) I think you have to include Schuerholz. Bingo. Him and Kenny are 1-2 in my book at this point. I've had this argument with wite before but even though Beane is a good gm you can't rate a guy that high who has never won a postseason series imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBatterz Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Here's to Kenny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 02:58 PM) Top 3 does not imply KW is 3rd best...it implies he's one of the best 3 GMs in the game. That's not bad at all. To clarify a little more about my personal opinion, I think KW is probably a top 2 GM along side Billy Beane. I'm probably stirring the pot a little bit by talking about Beane, but he put out a very good defensive team last year with a relatively solid but young pitching staff to go along side a good offense...all while "rebuilding." He nearly won the west and he's in a very good position to actually do so this year. The A's won atleast 90 games in a season for 5 straight seasons(00-04), and won 88 last year after getting off to a 17-32 start...it's hard to deny him as one of the best GMs in the game. I'm not saying this of course because of Moneyball...though it probably helps...and I'm not saying it solely because he's a sabermetric GM, because I thought DePodesta did a pretty mediocre job in LA, and Ricciardi has been mediocre in Toronto too. At the very least...KW and Beane are 1-2 in whatever order you wish...atleast I figure they are. I was just curious on who else you felt was up there. Beane has done a good job, but the A's seem to max out and fall short of anything significant. The A's have never even made it to the ALCS under Beane. So even though his teams put up good records, that is somewhat deceiving by the way they play in the post season. It is possible that they just had easier schedules to get those records, because they are consistently bad in the post season under Beane which doesn't really seem to add up. I would say KW #1 Schuerholz #2 Shapiro #3 Beane #4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(RME JICO @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 02:32 PM) I was just curious on who else you felt was up there. Beane has done a good job, but the A's seem to max out and fall short of anything significant. The A's have never even made it to the ALCS under Beane. So even though his teams put up good records, that is somewhat deceiving by the way they play in the post season. It is possible that they just had easier schedules to get those records, because they are consistently bad in the post season under Beane which doesn't really seem to add up. I would say KW #1 Schuerholz #2 Shapiro #3 Beane #4 I think it's wrong to include Shapiro in the top 3 due to the fact that he's never led a team to a playoff series...unless he was GMing the Indians in 01, and if memory serves correctly, Hart was still GMing at that point. And Rowand, I have told you that I think Beane will get one sooner or later. There is no arguing that he hasn't put his team in a position to win a series...luck has just gone against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rventura23 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(RME JICO @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 03:32 PM) I would say KW #1 Schuerholz #2 Shapiro #3 Beane #4 I dont know that Im ready to KW #1 yet although I love what hes done, Id have to wait out another year before I could make that move. I dont think Beanes done enough to show hes top 4, hes a little overrated Id say: 1: schuerholz 2: KW 3: shapiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rventura23 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 04:06 PM) I think it's wrong to include Shapiro in the top 3 due to the fact that he's never led a team to a playoff series...unless he was GMing the Indians in 01, and if memory serves correctly, Hart was still GMing at that point. I think Shapiro has put his team in good position with efficient resources, although he hasnt proved himself yet. Obviously theres a lot of luck and uncertainty involved in being a GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 (edited) Even though he isn't working right now...I'd put Theo Epstein up there. Maybe not top 3, but definitely top 5. Edited January 6, 2006 by CanOfCorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 01:10 PM) Even though he isn't working right now...I'd put Theo Epstein up there. Maybe not top 3, but definitely top 5. I don't know about that...guys like Theo, Cashman...they were in the advantageous position of being able to make mistakes at will and still having the money to overcome them. If the Red Sox waste $10 million on a guy, will it derail their franchise that season? Of course not. If the A's or Braves or White Sox do? Probably will. I think that the real skill in the GM job is in finding a way to build a team at a lower cost that can continually win. It's easy to just point at the best guy on the FA Market and say "Wer'e going to spend $15 million a year on him" and do that every year. It's a lot harder to decide what positions to spend your money at, what prospects to trade, what positions you can fill with young guys, what positions you need a FA for, what FA's are available at below market value, what guys fit into your puzzle best, etc. That's what guys like Schuerholtz, Beane, and KW have done so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(heirdog @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 03:08 PM) Beane blows Thanks for an intelligent response. I really agree with a lot of the points you made, and will reconsider everything I have ever believed in my life. ALL HAIL HEIRDOG! :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 05:14 PM) Thanks for an intelligent response. I really agree with a lot of the points you made, and will reconsider everything I have ever believed in my life. ALL HAIL HEIRDOG! :headshake Witesox fan, sorry about that. It was a bad joke. Just got a little punchy on a friday and lost my internal filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(heirdog @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 03:17 PM) Witesox fan, sorry about that. It was a bad joke. Just got a little punchy on a friday and lost my internal filter. Eh, don't worry about it. I just like being a smartass sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I think Kenny is certainly in the mix. I'd put Jocketty and Beinfest in there too. All have some bad moves, because that's what you'll have as a gm who makes moves. Kenny and Beinfest won championships on modest payrolls (Beinfest on a more modest one) and Jocketty has proven that a farm system has many uses, more than just developing players for yourselves (The Edmonds, McGwire, Rolen trades). Kenny is definitely up there. Its always a little easier to pick Kenny now fresh off the win but I think if you step back and look at each of the last few years with equal emphasis, these would be my three Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 QUOTE(UC76 @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 12:29 PM) Link On a seperate note regarding Boston Gammons and the rest of the BooYa crowd, does that ESPN Insider cost money? I can use a good laugh at times with all his BS rumors. If it does, wasn't there a log in and password floating around somewhere? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 1. Billy Beane--nobody does more every freaking year with less. People focus too much the Billy Beane described in Moneyball and assume he a) only knows about sabermetrics and B) doesn't care about defense. Both couldn't be further from the truth. Beane is natural charmer when it comes to the business side of the job, which helps just as much as his sabermetric knowledge. Also, the A's were the best defensive team in baseball last year. 2. Kenny Williams--KW might get burned time to time on a trade, but he's proven that a GM can learn on the job and go from mediocrity to greatness in only a few years. He's not afraid to "think outside the box" when it comes to player aquisitions. His decision to hire Ozzie was just what Sox needed after the corpse of Jerry Manuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 08:56 PM) Also, the A's were the best defensive team in baseball last year. second best according to MLB.com. LAAngels are first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I think I'd rate Schuerholz ahead of KW. He's won an insane amount division titles in a row, while still keeping a stacked farm system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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