Balta1701 Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 I think this is more funny than informative, but I had to post it somewhere, cause I just can't stop laughing. Jayson Stark, talking about the Phillies trying to find a #1 starter. Using Bobby Abreu as his prime currency, Gillick has spent the winter chasing an ace collection that included Barry Zito, Jason Schmidt, Carlos Zambrano, Mark Prior, Javier Vazquez, Brad Penny, Derek Lowe, Erik Bedard and, more recently, any and every starter on the White Sox roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 And somewhere, VAfan is crying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I think this is more funny than informative, but I had to post it somewhere, cause I just can't stop laughing. Jayson Stark, talking about the Phillies trying to find a #1 starter. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd trade ANY of our starters except Buehrle for Abreu in a 1 for 1 swap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 21, 2006 -> 05:17 PM) I'd trade ANY of our starters except Buehrle for Abreu in a 1 for 1 swap! Thankfully, you're not the Sox GM. Abreu has played 19 games in CF in his entire MLB career. He is a RFer by nature, so to put him in CF would be just dumb, especially when the Sox are built around pitching and defense. Abreu would be reverting back to the pre-2005 era of making a sexy move to draw fans in, when the move itself would likely hurt the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 21, 2006 -> 06:17 PM) I'd trade ANY of our starters except Buehrle for Abreu in a 1 for 1 swap! If this includes McCarthy, you are crazy. Hell, who am I kidding. Even if it doesnt include McCarthy, you are crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I think the Phils would like to get rid of Abreu. But the sox don't need him [taking into consideration his salary, replacing Dye, etc]. Though as the Phils are looking for an ace, Contreras would be the most cost effective guy and most likely guy available for them. If the Phils would be willing to trade a guy like Ryan Madson [who could start in the future as he came up in the minors as a SP but eat up innings in the bullpen now ala Scott Shields from the angels] and a prospect for Contreras, maybe that would be a deal worth doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 11:48 PM) I think the Phils would like to get rid of Abreu. But the sox don't need him [taking into consideration his salary, replacing Dye, etc]. Though as the Phils are looking for an ace, Contreras would be the most cost effective guy and most likely guy available for them. If the Phils would be willing to trade a guy like Ryan Madson [who could start in the future as he came up in the minors as a SP but eat up innings in the bullpen now ala Scott Shields from the angels] and a prospect for Contreras, maybe that would be a deal worth doing. I think Madson would almost be the most untouchable player on Philly's team right now. He's so valuable to them in terms of being that Shields guy, or being able to start, and they don't have a lot of other different options in the bullpen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 01:10 PM) I think Madson would almost be the most untouchable player on Philly's team right now. He's so valuable to them in terms of being that Shields guy, or being able to start, and they don't have a lot of other different options in the bullpen. that's the key question--would they want a #1 SP at the expense of a really solid set up guy? With Madson's drop off in Sept, the Phils may think he's not ready for the Shields role [a guy who throws 80-90 innings--he was awesome in '04 throwing 50+ innings though]. He did have 7 blown saves [though how much was it other guys in the 'pen who were unable to get guys out and he was stuck with the runs?]. If the Phils aren't sure he can be a SP, and may not be a guy who can give them 70-80 innings, getting a sure fire #1 SP could be attractive. Esp as Gillick has said he still wants a #1 SP, with few guys out there who fit that bill and are available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 08:34 AM) If the Phils aren't sure he can be a SP, and may not be a guy who can give them 70-80 innings, getting a sure fire #1 SP could be attractive. Esp as Gillick has said he still wants a #1 SP, with few guys out there who fit that bill and are available But who's to say Jose Contreras is a sure-fire #1 starter? He had 4 very good months last season...but 4 very good months and 2 bad months don't make a sure-fire #1. They make an inconsistent pitcher, and in Contreras's case, one that can be an ace and a top 3-5 pitcher in the league period. I'm as big of a Jose Contreras fan as anyone, but to call him a sure-fire ace is a bit premature at this point. Are you willing to give up a top RFer in the game along with a great swingman in Ryan Madson for a guy who is not a guaranteed ace and is not guaranteed to be with you past 2006? I know I wouldn't be. I think on the surface, Contreras and a prospect for Abreu and Madson may make sense for both teams, but I personally feel after doing a little deeper study of it that it doesn't make much a ton of sense for either team...you're either asking Abreu to play CF, which would be like asking Magglio or Podsednik to play CF, or you asking him to play RF, in which case Dye is gone, and it would be bad business to trade Dye after he honored a handshake agreement with KW taking less money than he would have gotten from Texas, along with getting rid of one of the best value players in the game. And I'm not sure how much sense it makes for Philly losing their best offensive player for a pitcher who had 4 very good months last year with only the 1 year remaining on his contract. His production is likely to decline sooner rather than later as well, making it a bad investment for Philly to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Dont the Phills have like a Tejeda or something like that pitcher.... id want him in any deal.... with him and B-Mac we would have 2 future studs for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Thankfully, you're not the Sox GM. Abreu has played 19 games in CF in his entire MLB career. He is a RFer by nature, so to put him in CF would be just dumb, especially when the Sox are built around pitching and defense. Abreu would be reverting back to the pre-2005 era of making a sexy move to draw fans in, when the move itself would likely hurt the team. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How about Abreu in LF, Pods in CF? BTW...I would trade McCarthy for Abreu...Abreu is an all star, McCarthy is still unproven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 01:40 PM) How about Abreu in LF, Pods in CF? BTW...I would trade McCarthy for Abreu...Abreu is an all star, McCarthy is still unproven. No Pods in center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 05:06 PM) But who's to say Jose Contreras is a sure-fire #1 starter? He had 4 very good months last season...but 4 very good months and 2 bad months don't make a sure-fire #1. They make an inconsistent pitcher, and in Contreras's case, one that can be an ace and a top 3-5 pitcher in the league period. I'm as big of a Jose Contreras fan as anyone, but to call him a sure-fire ace is a bit premature at this point. Are you willing to give up a top RFer in the game along with a great swingman in Ryan Madson for a guy who is not a guaranteed ace and is not guaranteed to be with you past 2006? I know I wouldn't be. I think on the surface, Contreras and a prospect for Abreu and Madson may make sense for both teams, but I personally feel after doing a little deeper study of it that it doesn't make much a ton of sense for either team...you're either asking Abreu to play CF, which would be like asking Magglio or Podsednik to play CF, or you asking him to play RF, in which case Dye is gone, and it would be bad business to trade Dye after he honored a handshake agreement with KW taking less money than he would have gotten from Texas, along with getting rid of one of the best value players in the game. And I'm not sure how much sense it makes for Philly losing their best offensive player for a pitcher who had 4 very good months last year with only the 1 year remaining on his contract. His production is likely to decline sooner rather than later as well, making it a bad investment for Philly to make. Jose's playoff peformance should alleviate any concern whether or not he's for real. But the key is him being a FA after 2006. I said Abreu isn't a good fit for the sox. But if the Phils could be willing to center a deal for Jose around Madson and a prospect, then something could get done. I agree, the phils will need Abreu's offense. Esp if they trade Michaels to the Indians. If the Phils pick up another bullpen arm from the Indians, they could then deal Madson. Another thing to keep in mind is that Randy Wolf is due back in July. Then a 5th starter type like Tejada, Hamels or Franklin could go back to the bullpen Edited January 22, 2006 by beck72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 06:14 PM) Dont the Phills have like a Tejeda or something like that pitcher.... id want him in any deal.... with him and B-Mac we would have 2 future studs for a long time. I believe its Robinson Tejada. He threw from the bullpen and the rotation last yr. Yet his high walk total doesn't fit the sox mold of guys with good control and high K rate. A guy like Madson would though. And Madson was a SP all through the minors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 02:40 PM) How about Abreu in LF, Pods in CF? BTW...I would trade McCarthy for Abreu...Abreu is an all star, McCarthy is still unproven. Pods in CF Answer your question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 If we were to trade for Abreu, our outfield would be nasty defense-wise. Of course, our D didn't help carry us last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerB's Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 From the Philly Inquirer: Officials from around the majors say that the pitching-rich Chicago White Sox would deal righthander Jose Contreras, who pitched brilliantly for that team in the second half of 2005. There are indications that the White Sox like Bobby Abreu but would have trouble taking on his salary as their payroll has climbed about $20 million and is closing in on $95 million. Screw Payroll, lets add a gold glove outfielder and a hell of a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 QUOTE(FGarcia34 @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 09:13 PM) From the Philly Inquirer: Officials from around the majors say that the pitching-rich Chicago White Sox would deal righthander Jose Contreras, who pitched brilliantly for that team in the second half of 2005. There are indications that the White Sox like Bobby Abreu but would have trouble taking on his salary as their payroll has climbed about $20 million and is closing in on $95 million. Screw Payroll, lets add a gold glove outfielder and a hell of a player. He's a hell of a player...but I still say that the gold glove doesn't mean that much when Jeter's winning them...and that's a ton of money to give up. A metric f***ton of money even. I would have trouble disliking having Abreu...but given that we still need to sign #56 to a 20 year deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 No Pods in center. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Abreu - Pods - Dye is MUCH better than Pods - Anderson - Dye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 11:28 AM) Abreu - Pods - Dye is MUCH better than Pods - Anderson - Dye! Not defensively or money wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Not defensively or money wise. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1. We'd be adding a Gold Glove. 2. It's not YOUR money! The Sox can more than afford to add Abreu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Abreu is a terrific player but are the K's a concern? Not his alonebecause he's so special at the plate but when you combine his with Thome's and a few other guys we have, wouldn't we be in danger of being the Phillies/Cubs/Even us from a few years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank the Tank 35 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 11:55 AM) Abreu is a terrific player but are the K's a concern? Not his alonebecause he's so special at the plate but when you combine his with Thome's and a few other guys we have, wouldn't we be in danger of being the Phillies/Cubs/Even us from a few years ago? Compared with the amount of times Anderson will be striking out this year? I dunno, I think since he generally hits for both a high average and has a high OBP, the K's aren't too much of a specific concern. Interesting to note, I found this snippet of a sox.com article from May '05: "In fact, both Ozzie Jr. and Oney have done outstanding jobs as translators for the media with Hispanic players, who prefer to do interviews in Spanish. Ibis actually has a personal connection to baseball, aside from her immediate family, working for Pepsi in Venezuela and doing public relations for White Sox's right-hander Freddy Garcia, the Phillies' Bobby Abreu, Florida's Miguel Cabrera and her husband. "They are like brothers to me," said Ibis of Garcia, Abreu and Ugueth Urbina, in particular, who are Guillen's closest friends in Venezuela. Garcia is also married to Ibis' niece. " On a somewhat related note, I've been occasionally reading the Philafan.com forums. I've seen a couple people who are under the impression that Abreu would ONLY waive his no-trade clause to come and play for Ozzie. Take it FWIW. As much as I'd want Abreu here, I don't think the trade is feasible for the Sox, not for cash concerns but rather bullpen concerns. I dunno who we'd have left to trade for some relief corps. Personally, I don't think Hermanson will come anywhere close to the numbers he put up last year. The only way we'd get flexibility is if Ozzie springs Uggie out of jail and gets him to play for us. So, all in all, a longshot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 11:39 AM) 1. We'd be adding a Gold Glove. 2. It's not YOUR money! The Sox can more than afford to add Abreu! A gold glove means absolutely nothing to me, not to mention the fact that he won it in RF. If he were acquired that would mean he'd probably start in LF and Pods in CF. Anytime you have Pods playing CF your defense is going to struggle. Easy for you to say the Sox can afford him just fine. Somehow I doubt they'd want to go over $100M for next season and all indications from sources say that this is a correct assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 12:39 PM) 1. We'd be adding a Gold Glove. 2. It's not YOUR money! The Sox can more than afford to add Abreu! Still playing Fantasy GM I see..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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