Duke's Rankings

[DukeNukeEm]

I never said he should never be fired but it seems pretty unfair to judge him on being able to coach players when he hasn't exactly been coaching his own players for an extensive period of time.  If anything the book is still out until he gets a more extended chance at coaching his own recruits without having his accomplishments dismissed because it's Davis' players.

 

It's stupid to say he should never be fired.  But it's hard to say a guy can't coach when he won a National Title, no matter whose players they were.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ohio State won that game. FYI

 

Coker needs to be let go.. he's not improving that team.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Charles Gordon is the man you want.

[mr_genius]

I hope the Bears get Vernon Davis

[Heads22]

Why do you have two juniors being drafted next year out of ISU?

[AnthraxFan93]

I think Duke, needs to lay off the crack.. When you have Bush who is going Number 1 as your 2 best RB and Matt L as 3rd best QB, with Young as #1.. There are issues there.

 

Mark My words Lienart will have a better career in the NFL than either of the 2 you have a ahead of him...

 

And if you think I am just saying this because I am on the USC bandwagon.. You are dead wrong.. USC is the most overrated team, this past season. as is the whole Pac-10.

[AddisonStSox]

 

EDIT: Addy's preliminary rankings to come a bit later. Rankings will change upwards of ten times from now until the Texans are on the clock.

Edited January 11, 2006 by AddisonStSox

[RockRaines]

WR:

1. Martin Nance Miami(OH)

2. Santonio Holmes Ohio State

 

 

From someone who went to Miami and is a huge OSU fan. I couldnt disagree more.

 

 

Oh and I think Calhoun is easily one of the top 3 RB's in the country.

Edited January 11, 2006 by RockRaines

[Heads22]

Better question would be why two Cyclones made the list. Berryman's a nice player, but I don't see Meyer being a top 5 national QB next year, especially playing at Iowa, Texas and Oklahoma.

[Palehosefan]

From someone who went to Miami and is a huge OSU fan. I couldnt disagree more.

 

I've never been terribly impressed with Holmes. He doesn't have great size, and his speed is nice, but nothing special. I love Nance's size, numbers, and attitude. I'm not saying Santonio has a bad attitude, as I have heard nothing about it, but I know Nance is a good guy and hard worker, especially coming back from his ACL injury in 04. I see him as a better attitude version of Plaxico Burress.

[RockRaines]

I've never been terribly impressed with Holmes. He doesn't have great size, and his speed is nice, but nothing special. I love Nance's size, numbers, and attitude. I'm not saying Santonio has a bad attitude, as I have heard nothing about it, but I know Nance is a good guy and hard worker, especially coming back from his ACL injury in 04. I see him as a better attitude version of Plaxico Burress.

You need to watch more Ohio State game then bro. He is a good blocker as well as a WR. Has exceptional speed, returns kicks, and was probably the best WR in the big ten this year. 1st in TD's 3rd YPR. I've seen Nance several times, as far as receivers go, he is a good one. But he is not elite. He plays in the MAC under a passing scheme. Santonio is head and shoulders above him.

[AddisonStSox]

Admittedly, I haven't put as much time into prospects this season as in the past, but, I have kept a very serious watch on the quarterback, running back, and defensive back positions.

 

QB

1. Matt Leinart USC

2. Vince Young TEX

3. Jay Cutler VANDY

4. Omar Jacobs BG

5. Darrell Hackney UAB

 

RB

1. Reggie Bush USC--No question.

2. DeAngelo Williams MEM

3. LenDale White USC

4. Maurice Drew UCLA

5. Laurence Maroney MINN--Beware. This kid is a serious product of a system and although he looks to be drafted in the first round, he is not a standout player at the next level.

 

FB

Who Cares--Nothing worth noting, Mid-rounders at best.

 

TE

1. Vernon Davis MARY

2. Leonard Pope UGA--Looks to top the Sweetheart List.

3. Marcedes Lewis UCLA--Stock may rise after combines.

4. Joe Klopfenstein COL

5. Anthony Fasano ND

 

WR

1. Santonio Holmes OSU--Not crazy about this WR class at all. Below Average.

2. Chad Jackson FL

3. Martin Nance MIAMI(OH)

4. Derek Hagan ASU

5. Hank Baskett NM

 

OT

1. D'Brickashaw Ferguson UVA--He's the balls.

2. Winston Justice USC

3. Eric Winston MIAMI(FL)

 

OG

1. Max Jean-Gilles UGA--Not saying much, very underwhelming class.

2. Jason Spitz LOUIS

 

C

1. Nick Mangold OSU

2. Greg Eslinger MINN

 

DE

1. Mario Williams NCST--He, too, is the balls.

2. Mathias Kiwanuka BC

3. Tamba Hali PENNST

4. Kamerion Wimbley FLST

5. Manny Lawson NCST

 

DT

 

1. Haloti Ngata ORE

2. Brodrick Bunkley FLST

3. Rodrique Wright--His stock will improve despite that poor showing at the Rose Bowl.

 

OLB

 

1. AJ Hawk OSU--No question.

2. Chad Greenway IOWA

3. DeMeco Ryans ALA

4. Bobby Carpenter--Will be on the Sweetheart List.

5. Ernie Sims FLST

 

ILB

 

1. Abdul Hodge IOWA

2. D'Qwell Jackson MARY

3. Kevin Simon TENN

4. Kai Parham UVA

5. Tim McGarigle NW--ESCC boy, fun guy to drink with...that's about it.

 

CB

 

1. Jimmy Williams VT--This pains me to put him up this high.

2. Tye Hill CLEM

3. Ashton Youboty OSU

4. Anwar Phillips PENNST

5. Antonio Cromartie FLST

 

S

 

1. Michael Huff TEXAS--Pro-Bowler

2. Ko Simpson USOC--Pro-Bowler

3. Jason Allen TENN--Bounce back from injury?

4. LaRon Landry LSU

5. Bernard Pollard Purdue

 

K

 

1. Andre Kristacovitchlalinski Jr

[thedoctor]

Admittedly, I haven't put as much time into prospects this season as in the past, but, I have kept a very serious watch on the quarterback, running back, and defensive back positions.

 

QB

1. Matt Leinart USC

2. Vince Young TEX

3. Jay Cutler VANDY

4. Omar Jacobs BG

5. Darrell Hackney UAB

 

RB

1. Reggie Bush USC--No question.

2. DeAngelo Williams MEM

3. LenDale White USC

4. Maurice Drew UCLA

5. Laurence Maroney MINN--Beware.  This kid is a serious product of a system and although he looks to be drafted in the first round, he is not a standout player at the next level.

 

FB

Who Cares--Nothing worth noting, Mid-rounders at best.

 

TE

1. Vernon Davis MARY

2. Leonard Pope UGA--Looks to top the Sweetheart List.

3. Marcedes Lewis UCLA--Stock may rise after combines.

4. Joe Klopfenstein COL

5. Anthony Fasano ND

 

WR

1. Santonio Holmes OSU--Not crazy about this WR class at all.  Below Average.

2. Chad Jackson FL

3. Martin Nance MIAMI(OH)

4. Derek Hagan ASU

5. Hank Baskett NM

 

OT

1. D'Brickashaw Ferguson UVA--He's the balls.

2. Winston Justice USC

3. Eric Winston MIAMI(FL)

 

OG

1. Max Jean-Gilles UGA--Not saying much, very underwhelming class.

2. Jason Spitz LOUIS

 

C

1. Nick Mangold OSU

2. Greg Eslinger MINN

 

DE

1. Mario Williams NCST--He, too, is the balls.

2. Mathias Kiwanuka BC

3. Tamba Hali PENNST

4. Kamerion Wimbley FLST

5. Manny Lawson NCST

 

DT

 

1. Haloti Ngata ORE

2. Brodrick Bunkley FLST

3. Rodrique Wright--His stock will improve despite that poor showing at the Rose Bowl.

 

OLB

 

1. AJ Hawk OSU--No question.

2. Chad Greenway IOWA

3. DeMeco Ryans ALA

4. Bobby Carpenter--Will be on the Sweetheart List.

5. Ernie Sims FLST

 

ILB

 

1. Abdul Hodge IOWA

2. D'Qwell Jackson MARY

3. Kevin Simon TENN

4. Kai Parham UVA

5. Tim McGarigle NW--ESCC boy, fun guy to drink with...that's about it.

 

CB

 

1. Jimmy Williams VT--This pains me to put him up this high.

2. Tye Hill CLEM

3. Ashton Youboty OSU

4. Anwar Phillips PENNST

5. Antonio Cromartie FLST

 

S

 

1. Michael Huff TEXAS--Pro-Bowler

2. Ko Simpson USOC--Pro-Bowler

3. Jason Allen TENN--Bounce back from injury?

4. LaRon Landry LSU

5. Bernard Pollard Purdue

 

K

 

1. Andre Kristacovitchlalinski Jr

 

what is the "sweetheart" list?

[Soxbadger]

Looking at Addison's IMO, Ive got. (Notice this subject to extreme change due to combine and other factors.)

 

QB

 

1. Young

 

RB

 

1. Deangelo Williams

2. Lendale White

3. Reggie Bush

4. Brian Calhoun

 

The rest Im to lazy to go over with enough time, but I think the RB rankings will be shocking enough.

 

In my opinion, Calhoun and Bush are practically the same, they are both undersized at rb for the NFL level. That does not mean they wont excel, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, but it does mean that the road will be much harder.

 

Bush is good, but he looks like an undersized S. Alexander. I would not be able to in good conscious draft him ahead of White or Williams, who are more likely to have have immediate impacts in the NFL.

 

Williams is good and a work horse, but I think the real suprise could be White. When I watched USC, I saw Ricky Waters/ Bettis or more close to our time, Ronnie Brown / Cadillac. The difference is, I feel Bush/White resemble Waters/Bettis more than the other pair. Bush is the Waters, break away back. White is the Bettis punishing back.

 

It is a shame that the Bears f***ed themselves by drafting a RB last year, not even the best one available, and now will be probably looking atleast 1 top 5 rb available at their draft slot.

[AddisonStSox]

what is the "sweetheart" list?

 

Commonly referred to as "darlings." These are the guys that may or may not get the attention they deserve but in one's opinion are the real deal. Completely subjective.

 

Looking at Addison's IMO, Ive got. (Notice this subject to extreme change due to combine and other factors.)

 

QB

 

1. Young

 

RB

 

1. Deangelo Williams

2. Lendale White

3. Reggie Bush

4. Brian Calhoun

 

The rest Im to lazy to go over with enough time, but I think the RB rankings will be shocking enough.

 

In my opinion, Calhoun and Bush are practically the same, they are both undersized at rb for the NFL level. That does not mean they wont excel, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, but it does mean that the road will be much harder.

 

Bush is good, but he looks like an undersized S. Alexander. I would not be able to in good conscious draft him ahead of White or Williams, who are more likely to have have immediate impacts in the NFL.

 

Williams is good and a work horse, but I think the real suprise could be White. When I watched USC, I saw Ricky Waters/ Bettis or more close to our time, Ronnie Brown / Cadillac. The difference is, I feel Bush/White resemble Waters/Bettis more than the other pair. Bush is the Waters, break away back. White is the Bettis punishing back.

 

It is a shame that the Bears f***ed themselves by drafting a RB last year, not even the best one available, and now will be probably looking atleast 1 top 5 rb available at their draft slot.

 

 

I always, always look forward to what you have to say SB. You are most certainly one of my most-respected posters when in the Sports Bar.

 

 

You make a few good points, but, you know I'm going to blast you for being a Wisconsin Apologist.

 

-Young, without a shadow of a doubt, may top the list come draft day. Talking to Scott and others around the game, scouts still drool over Leinart's "intangibles" and the dude can straight thread-the-needle. He'll be around for a long, long time in the NFL and in my opinion, and in the opinion of many scouts, his shot at longevity trumps that of Young. Vince Young is a guy with the highest ceiling in the world, but, can just as easily fall flat on his face.

 

-Reggie Bush and Rory Calhoun in the same breath? C'mon, bro. You were dead-on with your assessment of Carnell Williams, but, Reggie Bush is the top RB in this draft. His game is a near-lock to translate to the NFL--yes, this is pretty mindless for the RB position--and he will be a premier back for many years. I, too, worry about his size, but his vision, cuts, and groove on the field are just dreamy. He is also a return-threat, though, the Texans have a guy that I told you would be a big time player in Jerome Mathis.

 

-LenDale White is for real and I think he is the second ranked RB in the draft. I know I have Williams above him, but, the more I think about it, the more I want White. I'll concede this. If he falls to Pittsburgh, he is going to blow up the league.

[thedoctor]

Commonly referred to as "darlings." These are the guys that may or may not get the attention they deserve but in one's opinion are the real deal. Completely subjective.

 

cool. i'm a huge carpenter fan. i've watched him play since his freshman year of high school, put back some beers with him from time-to-time and think he's one of the real gems in this year's class.

 

as a bear fan i'd love to see him on the strong side, but i think he'd be a great fit as an olb in a 3-4 somewhere. dallas would be nice, because his dad played for parcells and he's a family friend.

[AddisonStSox]

cool. i'm a huge carpenter fan. i've watched him play since his freshman year of high school, put back some beers with him from time-to-time and think he's one of the real gems in this year's class.

 

as a bear fan i'd love to see him on the strong side, but i think he'd be a great fit as an olb in a 3-4 somewhere. dallas would be nice, because his dad played for parcells and he's a family friend.

 

f***ing a', doc. Carpenter would absolutely thrive as a Sam for the Bears. Could you imagine...Brian, Bobby, and Lance? Ouch.

 

Stay tuned for the Sweethearts, they are a lot of fun. A lot of folks bring up some real good names. Pound for pound, the knowledge we have in the War Room ranks up there with some of the better draft sites on the net.

[thedoctor]

f***ing a', doc.  Carpenter would absolutely thrive as a Sam for the Bears.  Could you imagine...Brian, Bobby, and Lance?  Ouch.

 

Stay tuned for the Sweethearts, they are a lot of fun.  A lot of folks bring up some real good names.  Pound for pound, the knowledge we have in the War Room ranks up there with some of the better draft sites on the net.

 

i will be eagerly anticipating it. i love the friggin draft.

[Soxbadger]

I said "practically" the same.

 

Bush is better, but is he $30million and 30 selections better?

 

When I see Bush and Calhoun (and yeah its the Wisconsin, but in the past I have not been high on Dayne or Bennet, so Im not always a homer.), they raise the same questions. Both are extremely talented, the question is will they have the strength and durability at the next level.

 

Here are my concerns about Bush,

 

1. 150, 200. Those are the amount of carries Bush has had in the last 2 seasons. Deangelo has broken 300 carries in successive years, Calhoun had 350 carries, and 50 catches, for 400 touches this season.

 

2. Defensive talent. The Pac 10 is bad at defense, maybe the worst "good" conference. When you look at Bush's stats you have to wonder how he would of faired in the conference of his comparison. Do I think Bush would have had more trouble in the Big 10? Yes.

 

 

I still do not believe the Texans will take Bush. I know that is what they said, and everything, but I just do not buy it. I think they will select Vince Young.

 

As for Leinart, everything people say reminds me of another LA product, Cade Mcnown. Polished QB, can put the ball in tight spaces, most NFL ready QB in the draft, etc etc.

 

The only problem is, in the NFL if you can not throw the 20- 30 yard pass with authority, they are going to shrink the coverage. Can Leinart suceed? Im not so certain, he looks good, but the NFL is so far different than the Pac-10 db's.

 

Its hard to talk about this stuff before combine, because I think that combines are very important to gauge the individual players talent. Many college players are system players, ie Ron Dayne. He runs the stretch play really well for whatever reason, but does nothing else good. He was in the perfect system for his talents, but he never could translate that ability to other plays.

 

It should be an interesting draft, I cant believe Calhoun declared. He got some really bad advice, seeing as this year he just started to become a household name, and next year he would of been looking at 1st round for sure. He should be happy if he is drafted in the 2nd round, because RB's fall alot come draft day.

 

And I think Maroney is slightly better than Marion Barber III.

[Palehosefan]

Santonio's stats even leave alot to be desired with me. OSU threw for over 225 yards a game, yet Santonio couldn't even average 82 yards a game. Martin even put up more yards when the two teams met, with 9 catches for 106 yards against a great D, with Holmes only managing 5 catches for 72 yards.

 

I haven't seen him as much as you have, but I still think Nance will be the best in the class.

[thedoctor]

Santonio's stats even leave alot to be desired with me. OSU threw for over 225 yards a game, yet Santonio couldn't even average 82 yards a game. Martin even put up more yards when the two teams met, with 9 catches for 106 yards against a great D, with Holmes only managing 5 catches for 72 yards.

 

I haven't seen him as much as you have, but I still think Nance will be the best in the class.

 

osu really spread it around this year in the passing game, though. ginn is there obviously, and gonzalez is extremely underrated. people will know about him next year.

 

especially earlier in the season when ginn was struggling, teams were rotating all their coverages toward holmes.

[WHarris1]

Ohio State won that game.  FYI

FYI he won it all in 01.

[RockRaines]

Santonio's stats even leave alot to be desired with me. OSU threw for over 225 yards a game, yet Santonio couldn't even average 82 yards a game. Martin even put up more yards when the two teams met, with 9 catches for 106 yards against a great D, with Holmes only managing 5 catches for 72 yards.

 

I haven't seen him as much as you have, but I still think Nance will be the best in the class.

Just shy of 1000 yards?? He was close to Avant in terms of yards with 30 less receptions. He led the big ten in TD's. An elite kick and punt returner. He runs excellent routes and blocks well. The guy is a gem.

 

On the LB route. Carpenter IMO was underrated, and if he fell to the bears, I think many would see the most dominant LB tandem in the NFL hands down. Althought Pope would looks REALLY good as our TE.

Edited January 11, 2006 by RockRaines

[witesoxfan]

But it's hard to say a guy can't coach when he won a National Title, no matter whose players they were.

 

One thinks of Bruce Weber, no?

 

Sure, it's different sports...same general philosophy though. Weber won with Self's players...does that mean he's a bad coach? Hell no, in fact, just the opposite, he's a great coach...he's just not a great recruiter.

[Palehosefan]

Punt returns and kick returns are nice for your 3rd or 4th receiver, but you don't find many starting WR's in on returns, outside of Steve Smith, and even then its a big gamble. For him to be the best receiver in the draft, I doubt you will see him on alot of special teams play.

[DukeNukeEm]

Why do you have two juniors being drafted next year out of ISU?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If theyre eligible I list em for future ranks.

 

Syndney Rice is on there too, its just kinda a watch on the futures. Theres a lot of incoming Jr's on that list.