Crede News

[HuskyCaucasian]

Thinking of Josh Fields starting for the Sox in the future makes me ill.

Me too. He is a BAD 3rd Baseman.

[BHAMBARONS]

Thats good and all, and maybe he can fix some of his k's.  But what about his poor defense at 3rd?  His bad footwork?  Wasnt it suggested that they even try him at 1st some this year?

 

 

Actually he did bring down his K rate in the second half he had 83 of his strikeouts in the first half to only 59 in the second half which is a little less than one a game. Josh in the second half of the season became the Barons best clutch hitter and also started laying off the breaking pitch on the outside edge and when he did swing he went with the pitch not trying to pull it. His footwork got better at the end of the season one thing Josh has working for him is the arm which bailed him out of what would have been a lot more errors. Bottom line is give Josh this season at Charlotte and see if his second half success at the Grand Canyon (aka the Hoover Met) transfers over to AAA ball

[YASNY]

Let me provide the naive post of the week.  Two questions:

 

(1) If having Boras as his agent means the end of his playing days in Chicago, and he likes the city and team, and success......why wouldn't Crede just get a new agent, at least if the negotiations turn sour?

 

(2) Isn't this "we won't play with Boras" issue rather immature on KW's part?  Cant the just look at numbers and set a years/dollars amount that he simply won't exceed, whether its Boras or anyone else on the other end of the table?  Come on, its business, not Christmas dinner!

 

SFF

 

Regarding number 2 ... The Sox have lost 3 1st round draft picks that failed to sign because Boras was their agent. The Sox got used by and lied to by Boras in the Alex Rodriguez free agency. The Magglio Ordonez situation went right into the s***ter when he signed Boras as his agent. The Sox have every reason to choose not to negotiate with Boras.

[RockRaines]

His footwork got better at the end of the season one thing Josh has working for him is the arm which bailed him out of what would have been a lot more errors.  Bottom line is give Josh this season at Charlotte and see if his second half success at the Grand Canyon (aka the Hoover Met) transfers over to AAA ball

I didnt say anything real negative about his offense as I know he cut down K's and improved so I will edit that out.

 

His footwork is still an issue from what I hear, and his arm was bascially the only thing he EVER had going for him. It helps him overcome some of the mistakes he makes. But at the major league level, that will not be the case. He needs to have professional footwork and glovework to make it on this team. And at this point he is not close. You didnt say whether or not they were talking about moving him to 1B at one point so I will assume that was true.

[Guest JimH]

On Point #1, Crede said if his representation ever got in the way of staying long term with the White Sox, he'd change his representation.

 

Might be very true, but things have a way of changing. An arbitration hearing can change all the warm fuzzy feelings in a hurry.

[YASNY]

On Point #1, Crede said if his representation ever got in the way of staying long term with the White Sox, he'd change his representation.

 

Might be very true, but things have a way of changing.  An arbitration hearing can change all the warm fuzzy feelings in a hurry.

 

Can you think of a better reason for Boras to force this to go to arbitration?

[Guest JimH]

I think we are missing a major point of these negotiations.  The Sox are letting Dennis Gilbert, a former AGENT, negotiate with Boras.  What this does, besides opening up talks between Boras and the White Sox, is put someone with a high bulls***-o-meter right in Boras' grill. 

 

Someone who doesn't have to get angry and rip him in the paper, but can say, "Hey man, I used to do this myself, we both know 'X', so don't try to put one over on me." 

 

KW has done some smart things in the past, but this has got to be one of the most genius things he's done, whether Crede goes to arbitration or gets traded or whatever.  Pit agent against agent and let them duke it out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would bet Reinsdorf had a major say in this, he and Dennis Gilbert are extremely close. The brain trust brings in Gilbert a lot when there's a particularly sticky negotiation.

 

He is a really nice guy too BTW for what that's worth.

[BHAMBARONS]

I didnt say anything real negative about his offense as I know he cut down K's and improved so I will edit that out.

 

His footwork is still an issue from what I hear, and his arm was bascially the only thing he EVER had going for him.  It helps him overcome some of the mistakes he makes.  But at the major league level, that will not be the case.  He needs to have professional footwork and glovework to make it on this team.  And at this point he is not close.  You didnt say whether or not they were talking about moving him to 1B at one point so I will assume that was true.

 

 

Yes there is talk of Josh playing 1st and he played one game at 1st last year when Rogo went down with an injury. I also agree his footwork is still a big problem and I hope he improves this season because the guy can hit and did show some flashes of brilliance at the hot corner this season

[RockRaines]

Yes there is talk of Josh playing 1st and he played one game at 1st last year when Rogo went down with an injury.  I also agree his footwork is still a big problem and I hope he improves this season because the guy can hit and did show some flashes of brilliance at the hot corner this season

You would know better than I. Heres to hoping for some improvement.

[BHAMBARONS]

You would know better than I.  Heres to hoping for some improvement. 

 

 

I will second that

[Balta1701]

Yes there is talk of Josh playing 1st and he played one game at 1st last year when Rogo went down with an injury.  I also agree his footwork is still a big problem and I hope he improves this season because the guy can hit and did show some flashes of brilliance at the hot corner this season

Didn't Crede take a while for his defense to develop also?

 

Anywho, I still think we should pencil in Fields in 08 at 3rd right now...don't expect him to be ready after 1 year in AAA, expect him to take 2, and be somewhat happy that we at least have Crede under our control for 3 more years. There's nothing stopping us from going to arbitration with Crede, giving up just a little bit in arbitration each year, and then trading Crede the year before he becomes a FA.

 

Incidentally, since Crede's back is still an issue, and Crede's still shown flashes of brilliance inbetween the inconsistency, letting him play here for another season or two would still give him the chance to massively raise his trade value, if he proves he is healthy enough to keep playing and finds a way to cut down on the slumps.

[SpringfieldFan]

(1)  Crede has Boras as his agent because he obviously wants to get the most buck for his bang.

I agree those would be the motives, however I wonder whether his motives have changed any since he hired him. I am sure his relationship with ownership and the city has grown since then. If it has, perhaps he would reconsider?

 

 

(2)  It isn't just KW that has a problem with Boras, it's also Reinsdorf.

 

I guess that's true, but then why wouldn't JR just deal in the numbers and leave the personalities out of it. If Boras demands too much, then bye-bye Joe, but at least negotiate...

 

 

Regarding number 2 ... The Sox have lost 3 1st round draft picks that failed to sign because Boras was their agent. The Sox got used by and lied to by Boras in the Alex Rodriguez free agency. The Magglio Ordonez situation went right into the s***ter when he signed Boras as his agent. The Sox have every reason to choose not to negotiate with Boras.

 

Yeah, if I werer JR/KW I would avoid drafting players who have Boras as a rep (they do have reps before they are drafted, right?). However, that doesn't apply here. For bettor or worse, they signed Crede and now that they have him I repeat: at least go to the table prepared with "final offer" figures, but don't just give up and refuse to negotiate something other then a stopgap 1 year contract.

 

Am I missing anything here?

 

SFF

Edited January 11, 2006 by SpringfieldFan

[Milkman delivers]

If Crede really wants to stay, he'll drop Boras. The White Sox give out fair contracts. Hell, they gave Timo $1,000,000 last year. With just about any agent, Crede would get a more than fair deal with the Sox. I guess we'll find out what he really wants eventually.

 

Also, this is gonna sound bad, but how old is Boras? As soon as this guy dies, baseball will be a better sport.

[Kid Gleason]

What I don't get (and this should show why I rarely post on Pale Hose):

 

Why does he have to switch his agent? Doesn't Crede have the final say? If he likes the offer from the Sox, and if he wants to stay in the city, can't he just tell Boras that he is taking the offer, and that is that? Or does Boras REALLY control his future that much?

[SpringfieldFan]

What I don't get (and this should show why I rarely post on Pale Hose):

 

Why does he have to switch his agent? Doesn't Crede have the final say? If he likes the offer from the Sox, and if he wants to stay in the city, can't he just tell Boras that he is taking the offer, and that is that? Or does Boras REALLY control his future that much?

 

He may or may not, depending on the player. Right after Garland was resigned he was interviewed on the Score and they asked him how much he, and other players, were involved in their agent's negotiations. Some players choose to be involved in every detail whereas others just give the agent a ballpark guideline and let them have free reign.

 

Judging by the way Crede's attitude evolved last year (lets just say his jock probably fits a little tighter these days) I am sure he would have no problem telling Boras the "way it's gonna be" if he has an opinion on the matter.

 

SFF

[WHITESOXRANDY]

This puts the hammer in Boras' hand because he gets to deal with whatever new team the Sox trade the player to(whether it is arbitration or a contract), and get the deal he wants to make his client happy, and get his big cut.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Does Boreass really make his clients happy ? Like AROD, JAGGLIO, ETC.

 

These guys are happy for about half a season. Then, the peabrains realize that they are in a s***ty place playing for a s***ty team with people they don't like. And then, the lightbulb goes off and they think gee I could have stayed where I was happy and still made a ton of money but instead I listened to BOREASS who told me how important it was to get even more money.

 

Guys like Crede get what they deserve!

[YASNY]

Yeah, if I werer JR/KW I would avoid drafting players who have Boras as a rep (they do have reps before they are drafted, right?).  However, that doesn't apply here.  For bettor or worse, they signed Crede and now that they have him I repeat: at least go to the table prepared with "final offer" figures, but don't just give up and refuse to negotiate something other then a stopgap 1 year contract.

 

Am I missing anything here?

 

SFF

 

The Sox ARE negotiating with Boras about Crede. They, at this point, don't have a choice. The point is that they when they can choose, they choose not to. Examples being Boras represented potential draftees and free agents.

[witesoxfan]

Also, this is gonna sound bad, but how old is Boras?  As soon as this guy dies, baseball will be a better sport.

 

Until Drew Rosenhaus comes to the MLB.

 

"What do you have to say about the allegations of your client using steroids?"

 

"No comment."

[RME JICO]

(1) If having Boras as his agent means the end of his playing days in Chicago, and he likes the city and team, and success......why wouldn't Crede just get a new agent, at least if the negotiations turn sour?

 

Uribe actually fired Bora$ after he came over to the Sox.

 

Bora$ has been quoted as saying that it is his job to get his clients to the FA market and arbitration where they make the most money. His clients rarely sign a contract in their arb years that puts them in the FA market later than if they stuck to one year arb deals, then hit the FA market in their first eligible year.

[Balta1701]

Until Drew Rosenhaus comes to the MLB.

 

"What do you have to say about the allegations of your client using steroids?"

 

"No comment."

Dude, the phrase is "NEXT QUESTION."

[elrockinMT]

from the white sox perspective = crede's a health risk.... boras will not be tollerated.... crede wont be back after 2006.

 

 

Don't read too much into that issue. The health thing is exactly the same thing people were saying about Paul Konerko and not signing him and/or trading him, if you remember. If Boras is nice and Hahn is nice and the come up with somethig everyone can live with you had better believe Crede stays for at least 3 more years. I hope he does too.

[Texsox]

Regarding number 2 ... The Sox have lost 3 1st round draft picks that failed to sign because Boras was their agent.  The Sox got used by and lied to by Boras in the Alex Rodriguez free agency.  The Magglio Ordonez situation went right into the s***ter when he signed Boras as his agent.  The Sox have every reason to choose not to negotiate with Boras.

 

Of course they can choose not to negotiate with any agent, in fact they can stop signing players with J or T in their names, or who are born in odd number years, but any arbitrary inflexible rule hurts the team more than Boras and his clients.

 

As was mentioned above, know what you are willing to spend and don't spend more. It isn't like Boras does some weird hypnosis thing. The reason so many Boras agents have signed elsewhere is the Sox rarely sign the top free agents, regardless of who the agent is.

[SSH2005]

Of course they can choose not to negotiate with any agent, in fact they can stop signing players with J or T in their names, or who are born in odd number years, but any arbitrary inflexible rule hurts the team more than Boras and his clients.

 

As was mentioned above, know what you are willing to spend and don't spend more. It isn't like Boras does some weird hypnosis thing. The reason so many Boras agents have signed elsewhere is the Sox rarely sign the top free agents, regardless of who the agent is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you be this apologetic towards Boras and his clients if we had given bums like Bobby Seay and Bobby Hill the big signing bonuses they wanted? Boras overhypes all of his clients. It's not like every player he works for is a stud worth a ton of money, although Boras seems to think so. Boras was hardballing the Brewers over Dan Kolb, who had a garbage 2005 season with the Braves.

[Texsox]

Would you be this apologetic towards Boras and his clients if we had given bums like Bobby Seay and Bobby Hill the big signing bonuses they wanted?  Boras overhypes all of his clients.  It's not like every player he works for is a stud worth a ton of money, although Boras seems to think so.  Boras was hardballing the Brewers over Dan Kolb, who had a garbage 2005 season with the Braves.

 

The point I am making is arbitrarily not negotiating with someone because you fear losing doesn't hurt anyone but the Sox.

 

Boras works very hard for his clients, and they generally do very well financially. Now to hear some people here, every free agent the past year should be kicking themselves for not signing with the Sox and winning a championship.

 

I find it very silly to blame Boras when a team overspends. What does he do to make them over spend? Are they spellbound when they look in his eyes? Does he secretly speak in subliminal messages? Is it magic?

[SpringfieldFan]

Would you be this apologetic towards Boras and his clients if we had given bums like Bobby Seay and Bobby Hill the big signing bonuses they wanted?  Boras overhypes all of his clients.  It's not like every player he works for is a stud worth a ton of money, although Boras seems to think so.  Boras was hardballing the Brewers over Dan Kolb, who had a garbage 2005 season with the Braves.

 

I would suggest the GM/Owner simply ignore anything that comes out of Boras' mouth that isn't a dollar or years figure. Screw whatever hype or other smoke he blows. Have a little faith in your and your scout's ability to judge talent and know what he's worth. Then simply walk away from the table if Boras wants more. I doubt he is handcuffing anyone to it.

 

SFF

Edited January 12, 2006 by SpringfieldFan