Teixera signs

[Felix]

And the answer to the question has NOTHING to do with Brian Anderson.  Rowand became expendable because Jim Thome became available.

I don't agree with that. I believe that Rowand was only expendable because KW believed that Brian Anderson could match the production he was getting out of Rowand.

 

Potential is the double edged sword.  Minor leagues stats dont always translate in the majors, and you are looking at Youkilis' numbers as if that is how he would be projected in the majors, and it just isnt the case.

I would state how patience at the plate (what Youkilis depends on) is something that sticks with you, but that would probably get ignored, so I won't bother.

 

No, because his minor league numbers are extremely impressive, and if they are any indication of how he'll do in the majors, he will be a bargin.

The key word being "if" they are any indication, then he will be a bargin.

 

If his minor league numbers are any indication of how his major league numbers will be, then he will make a good top of the order (probably #2 guy) hitter for any team that gets him.

[Kyyle23]

I don't agree with that.  I believe that Rowand was only expendable because KW believed that Brian Anderson could match the production he was getting out of Rowand.

I

 

 

Mmmmmk. The real reason the Sox traded Aaron Rowand to the Phillies was to make room for Brian Anderson. right.

 

 

I would state how patience at the plate (what Youkilis depends on) is something that sticks with you, but that would probably get ignored, so I won't bother.

 

Ok, I am ignoring his minor league numbers. However I looked at his numbers in the Majors, and he isnt quite lighting it up the same way he was in the minors now is he. This could change, but it still doesnt make him this great bargain that you think he is.

 

And he certainly wouldnt be on the wish list if a team missed out on Derrek Lee. Not even in the same sentence.

[Felix]

Mmmmmk.  The real reason the Sox traded Aaron Rowand to the Phillies was to make room for Brian Anderson.  right.

You obviously don't know how KW feels about Brian Anderson. Rowand was expendable because his trade value was at an all-time high and the Sox had someone who could duplicate his numbers. Believe it or not, but thats the truth.

 

Ok, I am ignoring his minor league numbers.  However I looked at his numbers in the Majors, and he isnt quite lighting it up the same way he was in the minors now is he.

Brian Anderson has hit .176 with 12 strikeouts in his MLB career. Is he going to do for the rest of his entire career? Hey, Robin Ventura hit horribly in his first two years. He sure sucked for the rest of his career, didn't he?

 

And considering the fact that Youkilis has been a backup, a .787 OPS isn't that bad. His OBP is as expected, career .376, and thats what his main purpose is on offense, to get on base.

 

And he certainly wouldnt be on the wish list if a team missed out on Derrek Lee.  Not even in the same sentence.

Thats not what I was saying. I was saying that the Red Sox could use the huge amounts of money that Derek Lee is going to get from some team (the Yankees most likely) on a more pressing need, such as pitching or a center fielder (although this need will likely be filled by the time Lee is a FA). Their staff is a much larger need than overpaying a first basemen when they already have one who has potential to be rather good on their team.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Felix

[Kyyle23]

You obviously don't know how KW feels about Brian Anderson.  Rowand was expendable because his trade value was at an all-time high and the Sox had someone who could duplicate his numbers.  Believe it or not, but thats the truth.

 

 

Kenny? Is that you??!?

 

I will from here on out refer to the trade of Aaron Rowand to the Philadelphia Phillies as "The BA trade". I had no idea that the whole idea of trading for Jim Thome was not for his lefty bat, but rather so Brian Anderson could play.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 19, 2006 -> 04:49 PM)

Why did the Phillies trade Jim Thome?

Why did the Brewers trade Lyle Overbay?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because Ryan Howard won ROY playing a little more than half the season.

Because Lyle Overbay was hitting arbitration and Prince Fielder (how do his minor league numbers compare to Youk's and how many years has Youk been in the MLB?) was ready for the big show. OF course the Red Sox and White Sox are not in the same situation (Development of players and comparing the division they play in) as the Brew Crew so the Brewers can afford to give a rookie a chance to play first.

 

Prince Fielder > Kevin Youk

Ryan Howard > Kevin Youk

 

Bad examples.

[Felix]

I will from here on out refer to the trade of Aaron Rowand to the Philadelphia Phillies as "The BA trade".  I had no idea that the whole idea of trading for Jim Thome was not for his lefty bat, but rather so Brian Anderson could play. 

Thats not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that Rowand was expendable because of Anderson being around. If Anderson wasn't around, and there was no other CF on the Sox that was MLB ready, do you still think Rowand would have been traded?

[GoodAsGould]

You obviously don't know how KW feels about Brian Anderson.  Rowand was expendable because his trade value was at an all-time high and the Sox had someone who could duplicate his numbers.  Believe it or not, but thats the truth.

 

Ok Rowand's value wasnt at an all time high he his numbers were way down from the year b4 so dont know where ur getting that. And if Jim Thome wasnt available KW would of had no problem leaving B. Anderson in the minors another year or trading him.

 

Brian Anderson has hit .176 with 12 strikeouts in his MLB career.  Is he going to do for the rest of his entire career?  Hey, Robin Ventura hit horribly in his first two years.  He sure sucked for the rest of his career, didn't he?

 

Brian Andderson hasnt had any chance to really perform at the majors yet while Youkilis has and just hasnt been able to earn a starting job.

 

And considering the fact that Youkilis has been a backup, a .787 OPS isn't that bad.  His OBP is as expected, career .376, and thats what his main purpose is on offense, to get on base.

 

Ok but his avg. is like 260ish and he strikes out more than he walks...and a K is just a complete waste of an AB. Taking a lot of walks is good but when you have a low avg. and you K a lot and hit for no power... it can only take you so far.

 

Thats not what I was saying.  I was saying that the Red Sox could use the huge amounts of money that Derek Lee is going to get from some team (the Yankees most likely) on a more pressing need, such as pitching or a center fielder (although this need will likely be filled by the time Lee is a FA).  Their staff is a much larger need than overpaying a first basemen when they already have one who has potential to be rather good on their team.

 

The Red Sox have a payroll in the 120 million area and by the time Derrek Lee becomes a F/A so will Manny or he will be about a year away from f/a so they have more than enough money to land Dlee and sign pitching/CF.

[Felix]

while Youkilis has and just hasnt been able to earn a starting job.

He hasn't had a chance at earning the starting job. In 2004, the Red Sox had Kevin Millar (.297/.383/.474) at 1st, Bill Mueller at 3rd (.283/.365/.446), and Mark Bellhorn at 2nd (.264/.373/.444), while in 2005, they were satisfied with the production they got out of Mueller, Millar, and Graffanino. This year he'll be spliting time at 1st/3rd most likely.

 

Ok but his avg. is like 260ish and he strikes out more than he walks...and a K is just a complete waste of an AB.  Taking a lot of walks is good but when you have a low avg. and you K a lot and hit for no power... it can only take you so far.

Is this a joke? Please, look at the players in the MLB that strikeout more than they walk. It will be a list of hundreds of players including Michael Young, Alex Rodriguez, Derrek Lee, Miguel Cabrera, Paul Konerko, David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, and Mark Teixeira (and many, many more).

 

And just a question, if you had the choice of two top of the order hitters, players A and B, which would you take? Player A hits .260, but has a .400 OBP and player B hits .300, but has a .330 OBP.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 20, 2006 -> 11:14 AM)

Is this a joke?  Please, look at the players in the MLB that strikeout more than they walk.  It will be a list of hundreds of players including Michael Young, Alex Rodriguez, Derrek Lee, Miguel Cabrera, Paul Konerko, David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, and Mark Teixeira (and many, many more).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How many of those guys having a batting average of .260?

How many of those guys are sluggers? Sluggers tend to walk more because pitchers fear them and strikeout more because they are swinging for the fences.

[Felix]

How many of those guys having a batting average of .260?

Not many, but I don't think that really matters since I believe that OBP is a more important stat for juding players at the top of the lineup.

 

How many of those guys are sluggers?  Sluggers tend to walk more because pitchers fear them and strikeout more because they are swinging for the fences.

Of the 18 qualified batters that hit in the .260's this year, 2 had 0-10 HRs, 4 had 11-20, 8 had 21-30 (most were in the mid-20's), 3 had 31-40, and 1 had 41+ (Andrew Jones). So depending on what you consider a slugger, those are the results

 

And yes, all of those batters that hit in the .260's struck out more than they walked.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Felix

[GoodAsGould]

He hasn't had a chance at earning the starting job.  In 2004, the Red Sox had Kevin Millar (.297/.383/.474) at 1st, Bill Mueller at 3rd (.283/.365/.446), and Mark Bellhorn at 2nd (.264/.373/.444), while in 2005, they were satisfied with the production they got out of Mueller, Millar, and Graffanino.  This year he'll be spliting time at 1st/3rd most likely.

Is this a joke?  Please, look at the players in the MLB that strikeout more than they walk.  It will be a list of hundreds of players including Michael Young, Alex Rodriguez, Derrek Lee, Miguel Cabrera, Paul Konerko, David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, and Mark Teixeira (and many, many more).

 

And just a question, if you had the choice of two top of the order hitters, players A and B, which would you take?  Player A hits .260, but has a .400 OBP and player B hits .300, but has a .330 OBP.

 

Whats the difference in all those players... Young hits for high avg. more power, A-Rod higher avg lot more power, Dlee more power and avg plus gg defense, Cabrera power and avg, konerko a lot more power, and etc...... how do you even compare youkalis to those players....

[GoodAsGould]

Not many, but I don't think that really matters since I believe that OBP is a more important stat for juding players at the top of the lineup.

Of the 18 qualified batters that hit in the .260's this year, 2 had 0-10 HRs, 4 had 11-20, 8 had 21-30 (most were in the mid-20's), 3 had 31-40, and 1 had 41+ (Andrew Jones).  So depending on what you consider a slugger, those are the results

 

And yes, all of those batters that hit in the .260's struck out more than they walked.

 

ok and why dont you name those players that hit in the .260's and tell us how good they are that dont hit for much power.

[Felix]

ok and why dont you name those players that hit in the .260's and tell us how good they are that dont hit for much power.

Or, you could look for yourself and answer that question yourself because I'm too lazy to name them all.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/battin...l=true&count=81

 

Also:

And just a question, if you had the choice of two top of the order hitters, players A and B, which would you take?  Player A hits .260, but has a .400 OBP and player B hits .300, but has a .330 OBP.

[Felix]

Whats the difference in all those players... Young hits for high avg. more power, A-Rod higher avg lot more power, Dlee more power and avg plus gg defense, Cabrera power and avg, konerko a lot more power, and etc...... how do you even compare youkalis to those players....

I wasn't comparing them at all.. where did I say I was?

You seemed to think that striking out more than walking is a really bad thing. I was naming good players that have a K:BB ratio of more than 1:1.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 20, 2006 -> 01:41 PM)

ok and why dont you name those players that hit in the .260's and tell us how good they are that dont hit for much power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Brandon Inge (.330 OBP,) Aubrey Huff (had a bad year,) Jeromy Burnitz (.323 OBP,) Orlando Cabrera, Jack Wilson, Craig Counsell (.350 OBP,) Jeremy Reed (yes, the future HOF we gave up. ) Gregg Zaun, and David Dellucci.

 

Those guys listed had low BA's, SLG % below .450 (with the exception of Dellucci. I just threw his name in their because he plays with the Rangers and it may have been a fluke year for him) and I would probably only Dellucci and maybe Counsell based on their 2005 numbers. I couldn't find any non-power hitting, .260 batters with .400+ OBP however.

[GoodAsGould]

I wasn't comparing them at all.. where did I say I was?

You seemed to think that striking out more than walking is a really bad thing.  I was naming good players that have a K:BB ratio of more than 1:1.

 

Yes it is a bad thing to K a lot... but all those players make up for it with power/avg. etc.... your love child Youkilis doesnt.

[Felix]

Yes it is a bad thing to K a lot... but all those players make up for it with power/avg. etc.... your love child Youkilis doesnt.

My love child? I said he was going to be a good player, how the hell does that make him my love child? Just because you seem to hate everything that Billy Beane thinks is good doesn't mean those players, or his system, suck. I think he's an overrated GM as well, but he's great when it comes to finding good prospects and value players.

 

Youkilis is a good player. As I've said all along, if his minor league numbers translate into his major league numbers, then he will be a bargin in the major leagues. I think that his minor league numbers can/will translate into major league numbers, so I think he is going to be a good player. Does that make him my love child? How dare I think a player who has good minor league numbers will be good in the majors!

[Kyyle23]

My love child?  I said he was going to be a good player, how the hell does that make him my love child?  Just because you seem to hate everything that Billy Beane thinks is good doesn't mean those players, or his system, suck.  I think he's an overrated GM as well, but he's great when it comes to finding good prospects and value players.

 

Youkilis is a good player.  As I've said all along, if his minor league numbers translate into his major league numbers, then he will be a bargin in the major leagues.  I think that his minor league numbers can/will translate into major league numbers, so I think he is going to be a good player.  Does that make him my love child? How dare I think a player who has good minor league numbers will be good in the majors!

 

if you would have said what you said about Youkilis without bringing Derrek Lee into the equation, I wouldnt have said a thing.

[Felix]

if you would have said what you said about Youkilis without bringing Derrek Lee into the equation, I wouldnt have said a thing.

My point about Derrek Lee is that he's going to get paid a s***load in FA, and Boston has more pressing needs than a 1B. I think they should spend their money on pitching, rather than a 1B since they already have a pretty good alternative for that position. I never said Youkilis was a better player than Lee.

[Kyyle23]

My point about Derrek Lee is that he's going to get paid a s***load in FA, and Boston has more pressing needs than a 1B.  I think they should spend their money on pitching, rather than a 1B since they already have a pretty good alternative for that position.  I never said Youkilis was a better player than Lee.

 

No, you said he was a better bargain. Which, when you factor in Derrek Lee as a possible triple crown candidate, just doesnt hold true with me. I just dont think anyone would envision Youkilis being a good alternative when you see what Lee can bring to the table.

 

And if they held on to Youkilis over Lee for money purposes and said "We have a pretty good alternative to Derrek Lee in-house, his name is Kevin Youkilis.", Boston would hunt Theo down.

[Felix]

No, you said he was a better bargain.  Which, when you factor in Derrek Lee as a possible triple crown candidate, just doesnt hold true with me.  I just dont think anyone would envision Youkilis being a good alternative when you see what Lee can bring to the table. 

I think that if Youkilis' minor league numbers indicate anything about his major league numbers, and if Lee plays like he has throughout his career (.276/.363/.662 34 2B, 28 HR, 86 RBI with solid defense), then yes, Youkilis will be a bigger bargin. Youkilis will be making near the league minimum, Lee will be making an extremely large contract.

 

And if they held on to Youkilis over Lee for money purposes and said "We have a pretty good alternative to Derrek Lee in-house, his name is Kevin Youkilis.", Boston would hunt Theo down.

I know, which is why i think its unlikely that they do that

I didn't say this is what Boston would do, I said this is what I would do if I were in their shoes.

[Rowand44]

I think that if Youkilis' minor league numbers indicate anything about his major league numbers, and if Lee plays like he has throughout his career (.276/.363/.662 34 2B, 28 HR, 86 RBI with solid defense), then yes, Youkilis will be a bigger bargin.  Youkilis will be making near the league minimum, Lee will be making an extremely large contract.

I know, which is why i think its unlikely that they do that

I didn't say this is what Boston would do, I said this is what I would do if I were in their shoes.

I just don't see how you could let a 40 homer, gold glover in the middle of his prime leave because you have a guy who walked a lot in the minors.

[Felix]

I just don't see how you could let a 40 homer, gold glover in the middle of his prime leave because you have a guy who walked a lot in the minors.

Because they have more pressing needs than a 1B to spend their money on, such as pitching, or a CF.

[GoodAsGould]

Because they have more pressing needs than a 1B to spend their money on, such as pitching, or a CF.

 

More pressing needs right now.... but 1. They are in serious talks with the Indians about Coco Crisp which would fill the CF void and Dlee isnt a f/a yet..... when is Dlee a f/a even is it next year or the year after... he basicly would be the replacement for Manny who i think only has 2 years left and than i very much doubt Boston resigns him.

[GoodAsGould]

and where have I ever said I hated Billy Beane and everything about him..... because Youkilis is a stiff and I call you out on that means I hate Billy Beane?