Balta1701 Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jan 28, 2006 -> 01:26 PM) I like the deal for them as well. Crisp is a great offensive CF, but he sucks defensively at CF. His arm is a noodle. The Indians got Marte, a backup catcher, a decent RP when healthy and a OF who gets on-base at a great clip while giving up a decent OF, a nice RP, a bad backup C and a another bad RP. The indians were trading from a position of strength and Boston was trading from a position of desperation. The Indians would have to be fools to come up with a deal that people didn't think they came out of in good shape. It's the same deal as KW with Contreras...they didn't need to trade Crisp, so Boston had to do something to make it worth doing the deal for Cleveland. And hell, Boston had a wet noodle for an arm in CF last year and got by. This trade probably saves them money that they can spend next year since Crisp only made the minimum last year...he's younger than Damon so he'll probably wind up being healthier, and Boston doesn't have to worry about his range decreasing as his legs get older. All they need is for him to put up numbers like he did last year, and they'll be all right. They have a good enough offense that they can live with an extra ball or two falling in the outfield, as long as they have a good bat there and find a way to make Ramirez stop the trade requests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 08:49 PM) Yah. And if he thought Marte could have been a definite star in the league, he would have gotten a stopgap. Obviously both Schuerholz and Epstein thought Marte was expendable for good, but not great players. There is a reason for that. Especially considering that Schuerholz has no probablem with letting young guys play. I think the Renteria move was a damn good one on Schuerholz's part. They got Chipper Jones to reduce his yearly salary total in exchange for an extra guaranteed year to save them money. Then they traded a top prospect not just for Renteria, but for Renteria AND CASH, in classic KW style. But they needed a place to put Chipper, and he's always been at his best when he plays 3rd. They have a ton of outfield talent, and it's all very young. Francoeur, Langerhans, Johnson, and Mr. 50 home runs Jones. They are stacked in the outfield and had to move someone, so they moved one of their guys for cash and a player. I think it'll wind up being a great move for them, especially since it frees up their outfield for more youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 The indians were trading from a position of strength and Boston was trading from a position of desperation. The Indians would have to be fools to come up with a deal that people didn't think they came out of in good shape. It's the same deal as KW with Contreras...they didn't need to trade Crisp, so Boston had to do something to make it worth doing the deal for Cleveland. And hell, Boston had a wet noodle for an arm in CF last year and got by. This trade probably saves them money that they can spend next year since Crisp only made the minimum last year...he's younger than Damon so he'll probably wind up being healthier, and Boston doesn't have to worry about his range decreasing as his legs get older. All they need is for him to put up numbers like he did last year, and they'll be all right. They have a good enough offense that they can live with an extra ball or two falling in the outfield, as long as they have a good bat there and find a way to make Ramirez stop the trade requests. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This isn't really true. An outfield of Crisp, Sizemore, and Blake still wasn't very strong. Crisp's numbers would look much better in CF than LF and Blake sucks. They traded Crisp to fill an even bigger hole in their system, third base (Aaron Boone sucks). A quality third baseman is a lot harder to find via farm system or free agency than a quality corner outfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view...rticleid=123739 Free agent shortstop Alex Gonzalez and the Red Sox agreed to terms Monday on a one-year deal worth $3 million, according to multiple sources, and the defensive whiz is expected in town Tuesday, barring weather delays. Gonzalez is expected to take the required physical Tuesday or Wednesday, by which time the Red Sox are expected to announce the deal, which was first reported in the Herald on Jan. 15. Gonzalez will replace the disappointing Edgar Renteria, whom the Sox dealt, along with $11 million, to the Braves in early December for third base prospect Andy Marte. Since the Renteria trade, the Red Sox have maintained steady contact with Gonzalez while also keeping options for a shortstop open, both internally — Alex Cora, Dustin Pedroia — and via trade — Julio Lugo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 You know...the Red Sox are gonna have a ton of money to spend next year...Crisp instead of Damon, out from Renteria's contract, (does Lowell's contract end this year?), etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 You know...the Red Sox are gonna have a ton of money to spend next year...Crisp instead of Damon, out from Renteria's contract, (does Lowell's contract end this year?), etc. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2252297 Boston will pay $8 million of the $26 million Renteria is owed for the next three seasons. In addition, the Red Sox must pay the $3 million buyout if his $11 million option for 2009 is declined. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2232211 The Red Sox have agreed to take on all $18 million of the money owed to Lowell over the next two seasons, a baseball official with knowledge of the discussions told ESPN.com's Jayson Stark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phuck the Cubs Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Which Alex Gonzalez did they sign? The one who blew game 6 or the one who broke it open? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 the one who brokes it open. Good defensively, has some pop and is allergic to ball 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phuck the Cubs Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 the one who brokes it open. Good defensively, has some pop and is allergic to ball 4 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 OK redandwhite, it's official Boston gets Coco, Riske, Bard and signs Agone II for $3 million giving up Edgar Renetria, $11 million, Mota, Shoppach, along with another $1 million. Is the Boston offseason still successful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 OK redandwhite, it's official Boston gets Coco, Riske, Bard and signs Agone II for $3 million giving up Edgar Renetria, $11 million, Mota, Shoppach, along with another $1 million. Is the Boston offseason still successful? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do you even have to ask? Coco Crisp is one of the greatest center fielders in the history of the MLB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Well...Overall...yeah they didn't have a bad offseason...it would have cost them what, $13 mil a year for the next 4 years to keep Damon, but through all their shuffling, they spread out about $14 mil for this season, got younger, added an arm to their bullpen in Riske, freed up money to spend next offseason by not signing Damon, traded a backup catcher for a .300 hitting 2nd baseman, and traded another prospect to get a potential ace (taking a bit of a salary hit in the process.) It's not the greatest offseason in human history, and a lot of it depends on Beckett's ability to stay healthy...but they've put themselves in position to contend this year and freed up salary for next year to make a run at whoever they want (one of the Lee's?). That's not a bad set of dealings. If Lowell turns out to be non-terrible...then it could even be a good set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Well...Overall...yeah they didn't have a bad offseason...it would have cost them what, $13 mil a year for the next 4 years to keep Damon, but through all their shuffling, they spread out about $14 mil for this season, got younger, added an arm to their bullpen in Riske, freed up money to spend next offseason by not signing Damon, traded a backup catcher for a .300 hitting 2nd baseman, and traded another prospect to get a potential ace (taking a bit of a salary hit in the process.) It's not the greatest offseason in human history, and a lot of it depends on Beckett's ability to stay healthy...but they've put themselves in position to contend this year and freed up salary for next year to make a run at whoever they want (one of the Lee's?). That's not a bad set of dealings. If Lowell turns out to be non-terrible...then it could even be a good set. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't forget that Boston took on Mike Lowell's entire 2-year, $18 million dollar contract. He sure sucked horribly last season (roids?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 31, 2006 -> 01:57 PM) Don't forget that Boston took on Mike Lowell's entire 2-year, $18 million dollar contract. He sure sucked horribly last season (roids?). I didn't forget that, but let's also not forget that they cut salary by getting the Bravos to pay a portion of Renteria's remaining deal (like $6 mil a year or so), and no longer have to pay Mueller, who made $2.5 mil last year as well. They also are out from under Kevin Millar's $3.5 mil deal. So, salary cuts: Removal of: Damon, who made $8.25 mil last year and will make $13 next year Mueller: $2.5 mil Renteria: $10 mil Millar: $3.5 mil Doug Mirabelli: $1.5 mil Additional Salary Crisp - league minimum Lowell: $9 mil 1 year price on Renteria: $11 mil Gonzalez: $3 mil. Loretta: ~$2.75 mil Beckett: $2.4 mil For the first year, they're spending a little bit more, but after that, since they also got rid of Renteria, they get a lot of money freed up by adding some youth and dropping Damon. And I think they probably got better while doing so...especially if Damon really is starting to wear down like he showed towards the end of last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Beckett has to be close to arbitration or something though so his salary will go up, crisp has to be getting to that point as well. and how long is Loretta's contract for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 (edited) Beckett has to be close to arbitration or something though so his salary will go up, crisp has to be getting to that point as well. and how long is Loretta's contract for? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Loretta is only under contract for 2006 at $3.25 million. He's a free agent after 2006. Edited February 1, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 31, 2006 -> 03:54 PM) Well...Overall...yeah they didn't have a bad offseason...it would have cost them what, $13 mil a year for the next 4 years to keep Damon, but through all their shuffling, they spread out about $14 mil for this season, got younger, added an arm to their bullpen in Riske, freed up money to spend next offseason by not signing Damon, traded a backup catcher for a .300 hitting 2nd baseman, and traded another prospect to get a potential ace (taking a bit of a salary hit in the process.) It's not the greatest offseason in human history, and a lot of it depends on Beckett's ability to stay healthy...but they've put themselves in position to contend this year and freed up salary for next year to make a run at whoever they want (one of the Lee's?). That's not a bad set of dealings. If Lowell turns out to be non-terrible...then it could even be a good set. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You forget their biggest offseason pick up... Big Willie Style... Willie Harris... Face it the guy is a rapping, hip-hop, super pimp... I have a feeling by the end of May he will not only be their starting 2B but their leadoff hitter and everyone from ESPN will be slobbing all over him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Jan 31, 2006 -> 09:02 PM) You forget their biggest offseason pick up... Big Willie Style... Willie Harris... Face it the guy is a rapping, hip-hop, super pimp... I have a feeling by the end of May he will not only be their starting 2B but their leadoff hitter and everyone from ESPN will be slobbing all over him... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So Willie is going to overtake Mark Loretta, Alex Cora, and Tony Graffanino by the end of May? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 (edited) So Willie is going to overtake Mark Loretta, Alex Cora, and Tony Graffanino by the end of May? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sarcasm... I hope at least. Edited February 1, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 1, 2006 -> 01:04 PM) Sarcasm... I hope at least. I don't think it was. Willie can still put up around a .340 OBP, which makes him a valuable bench player, but Loretta could hit .300 easily at Fenway and get on base more then Harris would. Very underrated trade that Boston made getting Loretta for Mirrabelli wasn't it (who ironically the Pads don't really need that much now since they have Mike Piazza). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 31, 2006 -> 09:17 PM) Very underrated trade that Boston made getting Loretta for Mirrabelli wasn't it (who ironically the Pads don't really need that much now since they have Mike Piazza). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Loretta had a large decline last season, and Mirabelli is the only one who could handle Wakefield. Of course now the rumor is San Diego might be moving Mirabelli to get David Whales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Sorry but Willie Harris has more talent in his pinky then Alex Cora... As for Tony G. he is so last year. Loretta might put up a fight up I think that Willie will be if nothing else a great leadoff hitter against righties... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 (edited) I don't think it was. Willie can still put up around a .340 OBP, which makes him a valuable bench player, but Loretta could hit .300 easily at Fenway and get on base more then Harris would. Very underrated trade that Boston made getting Loretta for Mirrabelli wasn't it (who ironically the Pads don't really need that much now since they have Mike Piazza). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that Willie Harris is a bit too overrated. He has some value as a bench player because of his speed but the fact that he can only truly play 2B makes him less valuable. He refused to learn how to play SS and he isn't very good in CF. So he's not really a utility-man, he's really just a speedy backup 2B with absolutely no power. I think there's a reason Willie had to sign a minor league contract. I agree that Mirabelli for Loretta was a really good trade for Boston though. Sorry but Willie Harris has more talent in his pinky then Alex Cora... As for Tony G. he is so last year. Loretta might put up a fight up I think that Willie will be if nothing else a great leadoff hitter against righties... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Alex Cora's glove makes him more valuable to a team as a utility-man. He can play 2B and SS. Willie plays one position. I wouldn't even be shocked to see Willie not even make Boston's roster since they already have Loretta, Graffanino, and Cora to play 2B. At that point, Willie has to beat out Adam Stern for the 4th OF / backup CF job. I'm not even sure he will be able to do that. Willie should have signed with the Rockies. He would have had a better chance of making their roster and having a good offensive season. He would have actually been able to platoon some with Luis A. Gonzalez at 2B with the Rockies. Edited February 1, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 10:47 PM) And? All I said was that I would have been more impressed if he came up and did something. He didn't. I said he'll still have a chance to be a solid player. I knew I shouldn't have brought up those ABs. He'll have a chance because he struggled in his first 60 ABs? Would you have wanted him to burst onto the scene like Chris Singleton or Joe Charboneau and then go on to have an illustrious career, such as they did? Would that have impressed you? Shapiro straight up robbed both Philly and Boston in both of these deals. Rhodes is old and expensive, and last year just so happened to be about his first good year in about 2, and he didn't even pitch 50 innings last year out of the pen. Jason Michaels actually looks like a better #2 hitter than Crisp does, all things considered. Riske is better than Mota, sure...but if Mota spends time on the DL, the Indians get another player too...that's nice as hell too, which makes that part of the trade win-win. Shoppach also potentially has a future, whereas Bard is looking more and more like a career backup by the day...not to mention Marte, whose ceiling is limitless, is now pencilled in for them wherever they can get him ABs for the next 6 years atleast. Crisp, while solid, is probably somewhat overrated. Pretty much is an awesome all around move for Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 (edited) http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/col..._rob&id=2313621 • You know what I miss? General managers who aren't afraid to tell you what they're really thinking. Theo Epstein is good at many things, but his quotes stink. "Coco Crisp is not Johnny Damon," he tells us. Well, yeah. No two snowflakes are alike, either. We get it. What Epstein knows, but isn't saying, is that Crisp is going to post better hitting stats than Damon this season, at least before accounting for their new home ballparks. What Epstein hopes, but isn't saying, is that Crisp's performance in center field closely approximates his past performance in left field (very good) rather than his past performance in center field (not good). The real question about Crisp isn't his hitting (decent OBP, good power for a fleet center fielder) or his baserunning (he's fast but isn't a particularly effective base stealer, which is fine in Fenway), but his defense in center field. Everybody says he's a good left fielder but a subpar center fielder. Again, maybe the Red Sox know something we don't know. Or maybe they just figure his hitting more than balances his fielding. I wish Mr. Epstein would tell us. But I thought that Coco Crisp was great in CF? Edited February 3, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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