Red Sox trade for Coco Crisp

[nitetrain8601]

Possibly better for the future. You figure he'll be better than his 60 ABs last year. I mean, it's pretty tough to go lower than a .438 OPS. That's close to a Jim Thome OBP.

 

Anyway. I love this deal. THank you Cleveland. ANd thank you Mark Shipiro for throwing Coco under the bus on his way out. LOL. You don't see many GMs saying how awful their player is in a certain aspect of the game on the way out.

 

Honestly, I think the Indians make out like bandits in this deal. Marte looks like he'll be a great one and with him and Peralta on the left side of the field for 10 years, that will be trouble. Crisp was nice offensively, but his defense, from what I've heard(even from Boston fans) is less than desirable. Indians also get a backup catcher and a decent bullpen arm.

[SSH2005]

Honestly, I think the Indians make out like bandits in this deal. Marte looks like he'll be a great one and with him and Peralta on the left side of the field for 10 years, that will be trouble. Crisp was nice offensively, but his defense, from what I've heard(even from Boston fans) is less than desirable. Indians also get a backup catcher and a decent bullpen arm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. This trade probably makes the Indians worse in 2006 but much better after 2006. The complete lack of a quality third baseman in their system was far more of a concern than losing Coco Crisp.

[jphat007]

I hope that Brian Anderson doesn't suck because he had a .559 OPS in 34 AB's last season.  Why even bring up such a small sample size?  It's pretty insignificant.  And I really doubt that the Indians aren't happy with Andy Marte considering Aaron Boone was the only decent third baseman in their system.  Aaron Boone sucks.

 

By the way, link me up with Shapiro's negative comments on Coco.  I'd like to see that.  Sounds good.

 

I don't think Anderson will be all that great either this year. Low .700 OPS probably. Obviously the smaple size means nothing. But when you are an incredible prospect destined for success, usually you come up and at least do SOMETHING in 50+ Abs. Smoltz OPS in 10 more AB was only 50 points lower. Haha. Not that it means anything. Still funny. At least Anderson hit the first 2 HR off of a pitcher that will dominate this league, all in one game, in Safeco. He can hang his hat on that for awhile. BA will likely be nowhere near as good as Marte though. I don't see Marte as a definite 900+ OPSer though. Those type guys aren't traded twice in an offseason. There is something fishy.

 

Shapiro is a tool

 

But anyway, 2006 is even better. They lost 4 of there top six 6 ERA guys (abover 50 IP), their defense got worse and lineup is worse. THey better hope Marte is good.

Edited January 28, 2006 by jphat007

[SSH2005]

I don't think Anderson will be all that great either this year. Low .700 OPS probably. Obviously the smaple size means nothing. But when you are an incredible prospect destined for success, usually you come up and at least do SOMETHING in 50+ Abs. Smoltz OPS in 10 more AB was only 50 points lower. Haha. Not that it means anything. Still funny. At least Anderson hit the first 2 HR off of a pitcher that will dominate this league, all in one game, in Safeco. He can hang his hat on that for awhile. BA will likely be nowhere near as good as Marte though. I don't see Marte as a definite 900+ OPSer though. Those type guys aren't traded twice in an offseason. There is something fishy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't agree with this at all. The very guy you mentioned earlier, Jim Thome, put up a .665 OPS in his first 98 AB's in the majors...

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4762/c...lb0f8HlO3mFCLcF

 

It's normal for a prospect to struggle when they are first brought up.

Edited January 28, 2006 by SSH2005

[Gene Honda Civic]

Possibly better for the future. You figure he'll be better than his 60 ABs last year. I mean, it's pretty tough to go lower than a .438 OPS. That's close to a Jim Thome OBP.

 

Anyway. I love this deal. THank you Cleveland. ANd thank you Mark Shipiro for throwing Coco under the bus on his way out. LOL. You don't see many GMs saying how awful their player is in a certain aspect of the game on the way out.

Possibly better for '06 too.

 

You're completely underestimating Andy Marte. I laughed at him being called the top prospect in baseball, but there's no denying he's in the top 10 or so. He's easily better than Brian Anderson who will be our starting CFer, while Marte will be to the Indians what McCarthy is for us. That's to say, a player who is worked in over the course of the season to help fill the inevitable holes that spring up at some point during the season.

 

If McCarthy is the best 6th starter in the league, Marte is the best 10th bat/fielder.

[jphat007]

I don't agree with this at all.  The very guy you mentioned earlier, Jim Thome, put up a .665 OPS in his first 98 AB's in the majors...

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4762/c...lb0f8HlO3mFCLcF

 

It's normal for a prospect to struggle when they are first brought up.

 

I said normally. Obviously there are kids that come up and struggle. He was hurt anyway. His numbers mean nothing for last year. I was half joking, though I would have been more impressed with something higher than a .438 OPS. That's 230 lower than Thome's.

[SSH2005]

I said normally. Obviously there are kids that come up and struggle. He was hurt anyway. His numbers mean nothing for last year. I was half joking, though I would have been more impressed with something higher than a .438 OPS. That's 230 lower than Thome's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The shocking thing is that Thome was even worse in his second year in the majors. In 1992, Thome put up a .574 OPS in 117 AB's.

[jphat007]

Possibly better for '06 too.

 

You're completely underestimating Andy Marte. I laughed at him being called the top prospect in baseball, but there's no denying he's in the top 10 or so. He's easily better than Brian Anderson who will be our starting CFer, while Marte will be to the Indians what McCarthy is for us. That's to say, a player who is worked in over the course of the season to help fill the inevitable holes that spring up at some point during the season.

 

If McCarthy is the best 6th starter in the league, Marte is the best 10th bat/fielder.

 

Marte would have to be incredible to cover up for the offense, defense and pitching they lose. Everybody dumps on Riske, but he had a 3.10 ERA in 73 IP. I'm not convinced of that. And I am NOT saying BA is going to be great for us. Especially early. He is going to have a mid .200 average, K a hell of a lot, and hit a bunch of HR.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Obviously the smaple size means nothing. But when you are an incredible prospect destined for success, usually you come up and at least do SOMETHING in 50+ Abs.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/venturo01.shtml

 

One of the best college hitters of all-time. Top 10 prospect in all of baseball. Oh and he went something like 0-40 to start his career.

[jphat007]

The shocking thing is that Thome was even worse in his second year in the majors.  In 1992, Thome put up a .574 OPS in 117 AB's.

 

I said those 50 ABs don't mean anything. I would just be more impressed if he came up and did something. When John Schuerholz gives up a player like that for somebody like Edgar Renteria, it makes me wonder a little bit.

[SSH2005]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/venturo01.shtml

 

One of the best college hitters of all-time. Top 10 prospect in all of baseball. Oh and he went something like 0-40 to start his career.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, I totally forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me.

[SSH2005]

I said those 50 ABs don't mean anything. I would just be more impressed if he came up and did something. When John Schuerholz gives up a player like that for somebody like Edgar Renteria, it makes me wonder a little bit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After losing Furcal to the Dodgers, the Braves needed a shortstop. Marte is a third baseman. Chipper Jones is still playing third base.

[jphat007]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/venturo01.shtml

 

One of the best college hitters of all-time. Top 10 prospect in all of baseball. Oh and he went something like 0-40 to start his career.

 

And? All I said was that I would have been more impressed if he came up and did something. He didn't. I said he'll still have a chance to be a solid player. I knew I shouldn't have brought up those ABs.

[jphat007]

After losing Furcal to the Dodgers, the Braves needed a shortstop.  Marte is a third baseman.  Chipper Jones is still playing third base.

 

Yah. And if he thought Marte could have been a definite star in the league, he would have gotten a stopgap. Obviously both Schuerholz and Epstein thought Marte was expendable for good, but not great players. There is a reason for that. Especially considering that Schuerholz has no probablem with letting young guys play.

[SSH2005]

Yah. And if he thought Marte could have been a definite star in the league, he would have gotten a stopgap. Obviously both Schuerholz and Epstein thought Marte was expendable for good, but not great players. There is a reason for that. Especially considering that Schuerholz has no probablem with letting young guys play.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, the Braves may also think that third baseman Wilson Betemit can play. And you have to give up minor league talent (Marte) to get proven talent (Renteria).

[DBAHO]

Yah. And if he thought Marte could have been a definite star in the league, he would have gotten a stopgap. Obviously both Schuerholz and Epstein thought Marte was expendable for good, but not great players. There is a reason for that. Especially considering that Schuerholz has no probablem with letting young guys play.

Maybe they think Renteria could definitely get back to his NL numbers that he put up with St. Louis, and he would be better then any stopgap they could get. And he'll be making about 5 or 6M less a season then Furcal is IIRC.

[SSH2005]

Maybe they think Renteria could definitely get back to his NL numbers that he put up with St. Louis, and he would be better then any stopgap they could get. And he'll be making about 5 or 6M less a season then Furcal is IIRC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.mlb4u.com/atl.html

Edgar Renteria: signed 4-year deal worth 40M on 12/17/04- he receives a 4M signing bonus, of which 1M is paid in 2005, the rest is prorated over the life of the deal- he receives salaries of 7M in 2005, 8M in 2006, and 9M in both 2007 and 2008- + the deal includes an 11M Team Option for 2009 or a 3M buyout - + he receives a 1M bonus if traded- + BOS is responsible for entier 8M 2006 salary and the 3M buyout if 2009 option is declined- + he receives a 1M assignment bonus due to trade from BOS to ATL on 12/8/05

[jphat007]

Maybe they think Renteria could definitely get back to his NL numbers that he put up with St. Louis, and he would be better then any stopgap they could get. And he'll be making about 5 or 6M less a season then Furcal is IIRC.

 

I'm sure that came into their mind. I'm sure they weighed that against the chance that Marte becomes a really good player, and they made their decision accordingly. They'll have to hope and pray Renteria gets back those NL numbers though. Because he obviously wasn't a player in 05 that you would give up a star to get.

 

All of this is conjecture though. nobody knows. All I know is that the Indians got worse for 06, and considering thats the next season, thats fine by me.

Edited January 28, 2006 by jphat007

[SSH2005]

Rotoworld likes the Indian's side of the trade...

 

Red Sox acquired outfielder Coco Crisp, RHP David Riske and catcher Josh Bard from the Indians for Indians third baseman Andy Marte, RHP Guillermo Mota, catcher Kelly Shoppach and cash considerations and a player to be named.

The Red Sox are believed to be paying $1 million or so of Mota's $3 million salary. The PTBN might only be a part of the deal if Mota spends time on the DL. Theo Epstein's first deal since officially returning to the Red Sox looks like a poor one. The Red Sox desperately needed a center fielder, but Crisp doesn't promise to be anything more than average defensively. He's also a poor baserunner for someone with very good speed. The Red Sox will use him as a leadoff hitter, though that, too, could be a mistake. Kevin Youkilis in the leadoff spot and Crisp batting fifth or sixth would likely work better, not that it will ever happen. Crisp's fantasy value increases with the trade, mostly because Fenway plays so much better for hitters than Jacobs Field. That he's now under Boston's control for four years is a plus. Still, we'd take 6 1/2 years of Marte any day of the week.

Even though the Cleveland fans don't seem to like it, Indians GM Mark Shapiro has pulled off a great trade here. It's all about Marte, who is one of the top-10 prospects in baseball and might be a better player than Aaron Boone right now. He'll likely head back to Triple-A for at least the first couple of months, but he could become a fixture in Cleveland's lineup as soon as June or July. The Indians aren't taking much of a step back in 2006 here, and they're clearly in better position for 2008 and beyond.

Edited January 28, 2006 by SSH2005

[SSH2005]

Good center fielder, horrible shortstop...

Now that they have Coco Crisp, the Red Sox could soon finalize their deal with Alex Gonzalez.

The Herald reported four days ago that the two sides had reached a deal pending a physical, though that doesn't quite appear to be the case. The Red Sox have held off because they likely would have made another run at Julio Lugo had the Crisp deal fallen through.

Source:  Boston Herald

[whitesoxmanager]

initial reaction is that Cleveland totally screwed this up...they gave away Coco Crisp? what are they thinking?

[daa84]

Good center fielder, horrible shortstop...

which alex gonzalez is that? i think its teh one from florida, which seems pointless to me because they have alex cora, who is the same damn player alex gonzalez is....great defensively, bad with teh stick

[GoodAsGould]

which alex gonzalez is that? i think its teh one from florida, which seems pointless to me because they have alex cora, who is the same damn player alex gonzalez is....great defensively, bad with teh stick

 

personally though I think Gonzalez is a better fielder at SS and he has some more power which is nice for a bottom of the order hitter added plus or something. Although he didnt show much power last season....

[jackie hayes]

Rotoworld likes the Indian's side of the trade...

Yeah, and this part -- "The PTBN might only be a part of the deal if Mota spends time on the DL." -- sounds about right as a compromise. Swapping Riske for Mota isn't great, but if you've got a bit of insurance on Mota, health-wise, that really solidifies this trade for the Tribe, as he's shown what he can do when he's right. If Mota's healthy, great. If he's not, you get a young player you can put in the bullpen or flip to get a reliever. (Or hold onto, if you're out of the race anyway.)

[nitetrain8601]

Rotoworld likes the Indian's side of the trade...

 

I like the deal for them as well. Crisp is a great offensive CF, but he sucks defensively at CF. His arm is a noodle. The Indians got Marte, a backup catcher, a decent RP when healthy and a OF who gets on-base at a great clip while giving up a decent OF, a nice RP, a bad backup C and a another bad RP.