Red Sox trade for Coco Crisp

[JDsDirtySox]

I understand everyone loves the potential of Marte... thus saying that the Tribe wins this deal, but is anyone else wondering about Marte's injury? Marte supposedly has an elbow problem which will most likely lead to surgery. With that being said, I think Coco Crisp is a very good player. I am not sad to see him leave our division at all.

 

 

For the time being: The Red Sox are better from this trade, and the Tribe is not.

For the future: Only time will tell.

[jphat007]

I love when division rivals trade good major league players for prospects.

[Flash Tizzle]

For the time being:  The Red Sox are better from this trade, and the Tribe is not.

For the future:  Only time will tell.

 

Of course. Marte will begin next season in AAA, and likely will remain there unless Boone falters, injures himself, or the Indians' record necessitates his callup.

 

I envy the Indians here because this is an example of a trade I wish Williams would orchestrate. Trade from an easily replaceable position on a team full of offensive potential for a stellar prospect and a good bullpen arm? Doesn't sound very risk. Even if Marte never reaches his perceived ceiling, he'll still guarantee you average production from a third-baseman. Not to mention he'll be dirt cheap; which is important when that Indians offense begins earning their paychecks.

Edited January 22, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[Flash Tizzle]

I love when division rivals trade good major league players for prospects.

 

Yeah, thank God all Minnesota received for an All-star catcher being forced from his position is some injured pitcher named Liriano and a decent bullpen pitcher named Nathan.

 

Or how about that crappy package Indians received for Bartolo Colon?

Edited January 22, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[Rowand44]

I envy the Indians here because this is an example of a trade I wish Williams would orchestrate.

Think they envy those rings we won last year?

[Flash Tizzle]

Think they envy those rings we won last year?

I knew this comparison was coming the minute I typed my post. Now I'll humor you: yes, they envy our rings.

 

Point is, I wouldn't mind Williams creating trade scenarios which don't necessarily help us immediately, but rather, have the potential of reeping high rewards several years down the line. For example: I wouldn't mind if trading Contreras netted our minor leagues several quality pitching prospects. We're not exactly overloaded in that department.

[Rowand44]

I knew this comparison was coming the minute I typed my post. Now I'll humor you: yes, they envy our rings.

 

Point is, I wouldn't mind Williams creating trade scenarios which don't necessarily help us immediately, but rather, have the potential of reeping high rewards several years down the line. For example: I wouldn't mind if trading Contreras netted our minor leagues several quality pitching prospects. We're not exactly overloaded in that department.

I'm just giving you crap cause I can.

[JDsDirtySox]

Looking into this trade further... It sounds like there is more to this deal.

Sounds like the Tribe may be trading prospects to Boston as well (possibly Garko).

[AddisonStSox]

I knew this comparison was coming the minute I typed my post. Now I'll humor you: yes, they envy our rings.

 

Point is, I wouldn't mind Williams creating trade scenarios which don't necessarily help us immediately, but rather, have the potential of reeping high rewards several years down the line. For example: I wouldn't mind if trading Contreras netted our minor leagues several quality pitching prospects. We're not exactly overloaded in that department.

 

I like we're you're headed with this arguement, Flash, and you're making very valid points. IMHO, the types of moves the Tribe are able to make at this juncture are not the types of moves Williams and company have the liberty to make in 2006. I believe he's gone on record as saying he's looking to compete for another Championship in 2006--hence the Thome and Vazquez moves. After 2006, I expect to see a year or two of re-tooling with the Sox. You'll be seeing guys like Contreras and Crede out of the picture, hoping to land a similar package in return.

 

That said, I'm just as comfortable holding on to Contreras throughout 2006, allowing him to pitch his ass off in a walk year to help our defense of the title. If were weren't primed for another pennant chase in 2006, I'd be calling for the same moves.

 

EDIT: Remember: the White Sox were a very lucky/healthy team in 2005. We're just one blown arm away from needing that sixth starter in 2006. I'm quite happy winning back-to-back Championships and sitting through a year or two of re-tooling.

Edited January 22, 2006 by AddisonStSox

[sircaffey]

Yeah, thank God all Minnesota received for an All-star catcher being forced from his position is some injured pitcher named Liriano and a decent bullpen pitcher named Nathan.

 

Or how about that crappy package Indians received for Bartolo Colon?

 

Some work out, yes.

[WilliamTell]

Shoot, I don't want to face Marte. And as for Willie Harris, no staring outfielder for him.

[Flash Tizzle]

I like we're you're headed with this arguement, Flash, and you're making very valid points.  IMHO, the types of moves the Tribe are able to make at this juncture are not the types of moves Williams and company have the liberty to make in 2006.  I believe he's gone on record as saying he's looking to compete for another Championship in 2006--hence the Thome and Vazquez moves.  After 2006, I expect to see a year or two of re-tooling with the Sox.  You'll be seeing guys like Contreras and Crede out of the picture, hoping to land a similar package in return.

 

That said, I'm just as comfortable holding on to Contreras throughout 2006, allowing him to pitch his ass off in a walk year to help our defense of the title.  If were weren't primed for another pennant chase in 2006, I'd be calling for the same moves.

 

EDIT: Remember: the White Sox were a very lucky/healthy team in 2005.  We're just one blown arm away from needing that sixth starter in 2006.  I'm quite happy winning back-to-back Championships and sitting through a year or two of re-tooling.

 

Thome and Vazquez validate your points about Williams' 'win now' approach. I never expected him to trade Contreras for anything less than a top prospect, or another bullpen arm capable of immediately contributing. With our luck in avoiding injuries, and the WBC just beyond the horizon, Williams' decision may prove to be correct.

 

It's trades such as that of Cocoa Crisp-- a "rebuilding on the fly" concept, which Atlanta and Oakland have worked to perfection. Trading players with high value from a position of strength to reinforce a weakness is smart business. If we were to trade Contreras for a collection of pitching prospects, our rotation could conceivably allow the proper development of the players. Even with the threat of injuries, I'd take the risk if the pitching equivalent of Marte were to exchange teams.

 

But since the Dodgers have exited the picture, and the talks with Houston nonexistent, dealing Contreras isn't a concern of mine. If our team enters Spring Training as it is right now I can't honestly complain. KW has done his job.

Edited January 22, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 02:34 PM)

Thome and Vazquez validate your points about Williams' 'win now' approach. I never expected him to trade Contreras for anything less than a top prospect, or another bullpen arm capable of immediately contributing. With our luck in avoiding injuries, and the WBC just beyond the horizon, Williams' decision may prove to be correct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wouldn't you also say that the Thome and Vazquez trades are trades planned for the future as well because we control them for at least 3 seasons?

[jphat007]

Thome and Vazquez validate your points about Williams' 'win now' approach. I never expected him to trade Contreras for anything less than a top prospect, or another bullpen arm capable of immediately contributing. With our luck in avoiding injuries, and the WBC just beyond the horizon, Williams' decision may prove to be correct.

 

It's trades such as that of Cocoa Crisp-- a "rebuilding on the fly" concept, which Atlanta and Oakland have worked to perfection. Trading players with high value from a position of strength to reinforce a weakness is smart business. If we were to trade Contreras for a collection of pitching prospects, our rotation could conceivably allow the proper development of the players. Even with the threat of injuries, I'd take the risk if the pitching equivalent of Marte were to exchange teams.

 

But since the Dodgers have exited the picture, and the talks with Houston nonexistent, dealing Contreras isn't a concern of mine. If our team enters Spring Training as it is right now I can't honestly complain. KW has done his job.

 

I think I'll take KW's championship model over Oakland, Minnesota, and Cleveland's occasional division winner/first round exit/always looking for the future method/always rebuilding on the fly method. But that's just me.

 

PS. I hope Mota is in the deal too. He's a headcase and was terrible for the Marlins in a pitcher's park in the NL. It seems like the Indians are going away from the thing that got them a chance last year.

Edited January 22, 2006 by jphat007

[jphat007]

Yeah, thank God all Minnesota received for an All-star catcher being forced from his position is some injured pitcher named Liriano and a decent bullpen pitcher named Nathan.

 

Or how about that crappy package Indians received for Bartolo Colon?

 

How many rings have those players gotten their team? Hell. How many ALCS' have those players gotten their team? Exactly. The AJ Nathan/Liriano deal was a great one for Twins. Ryan fleeced them. But that's one deal.

[GoodAsGould]

I think I'll take KW's championship model over Oakland, Minnesota, and Cleveland's occasional division winner/first round exit/always looking for the future method/always rebuilding on the fly method. But that's just me.

 

PS. I hope Mota is in the deal too. He's a headcase and was terrible for the Marlins in a pitcher's park in the NL. It seems like the Indians are going away from the thing that got them a chance last year.

 

Difference is.... we can use their method and than add some more to it since our payroll is significantly higher than all 3 of those teams...

[jphat007]

Difference is.... we can use their method and than add some more to it since our payroll is significantly higher than all 3 of those teams...

 

Exactly. So why would we want to go use their method when we can use the method that KW is using? It's not our fault we won and our payroll will increase as a result.

[jphat007]

IMO, Kenny knows he has tops 3 years left to win another World Series with this core. You keep saying you want Kenny to do a move like this, trade quality major league players for high end, low cost prospects. Thats all fine and great, but this team right now isnt in that position. Were basically putting all are eggs in one basket, hoping for another WS title in 06-08, and I have no problem with that.

 

If winning another World Series in the next two years  means in 2008-2013 we suck, I will have absolutely no problem with that.

 

If our attendance stays up, and we at least have solid runs in 06-08, we aren't going to suck. We'll go out and build our teams with the money instead, relying on a few prospects that we draft in that time and a couple we already have. We're not going to be in a position where we are relying on prospects for awhile. Unless there is a strike and attendance sucks and then everyone's screwed anyway.

[Heads22]

Dammit, I like Mota.

[chisoxfan14]

wow...I might as well go to Boston! Willie's there, Coco's gonna be there! Well, the only thing I know is that I'm definetly going to a Sox-Sox game this season!

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jan 22, 2006 -> 02:33 AM)

Awaits R&W proclaiming Marte as an overrated prospect who wasn't going to pan out anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

yes, because thats what i am known to do.

 

actually, im not getting worked up about this "deal" until it becomes finalized. if the alex rodriguez trade taught me anything its that nothings official unitl its official.

 

personally, with the deal constructed as it currently is, i'd have rather traded clement to seattle for reed.

[Flash Tizzle]

How many rings have those players gotten their team? Hell. How many ALCS' have those players gotten their team? Exactly. The AJ Nathan/Liriano deal was a great one for Twins. Ryan fleeced them. But that's one deal.

 

Entire premise of my original post was to suggest I would LOVE for Williams to deal from a position of strength and absolutely fleece the other team. Indians traded a commodity they could live without for a prospect they could afford to develop. Just as I wouldn't mind if Williams acquired a top pitching prospect for Contreras. One, similar to McCarthy, whom could provide relief if any starter should become injured. You may be thinking, "It's unlikely we'll receive a top prospect, since he's in the last year of his contract," but I don't buy it. All I want is our AJ for Liriano/Nathan. Our Sizemore/lee for Colon. Our Einar Diaz for Travis Hafner. It honestly annoys me how we're never in the position to receive excess talent for a player. That's ultimately why I envy Cleveland's position. Just as, yes, they probably envy our World Series rings.

Edited January 22, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[Flash Tizzle]

yes, because thats what i am known to do.

 

You have to admit you slurped Marte as "the closest thing to a can't miss prospect." If I had the search feature available I could find your exact quotes.

 

I would think you'd be up in arms about this trade. You can reserve your feelings until any proposed trade is finalized, but I know personally I'll be upset if such as trade is allowed.

Edited January 22, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[jackie hayes]

Kenny should totally veto this thing.

[fathom]

Crisp is a very, very good player, and I'm happy he's gone. Also, if they go from Bettancourt to Mota, that would be a downgrade. Mota's a clubhouse cancer, and his stuff has deteriorated in the last few years.