SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Wait a sec, so they got another outfielder, and still got rid of Rhodes? Hahaha, Indians lose out again. edit: I thought the Phillies and Indians had their own seperate trade, and it was all done? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It was going to be some combination of Marte and Mota for Crisp and then the Indians were going to deal Mota to the Phillies for Jason Michaels. But since the trade with the Red Sox fell through, the Indians can't trade Mota to the Phillies for Michaels because they don't have him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 04:18 AM) It was going to be some combination of Marte and Mota for Crisp and then the Indians were going to deal Mota to the Phillies for Jason Michaels. But since the trade with the Red Sox fell through, the Indians can't trade Mota to the Phillies for Michaels because they don't have him. actually they were dealing Arthur Rhodes from last I heard unless it changed during the day.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) actually they were dealing Arthur Rhodes from last I heard unless it changed during the day.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Doh, you're right. I'm all screwed up. Sorry. The Indians didn't want to deal Rhodes for Michaels unless they got another reliever like Mota to replace Rhodes in their bullpen. Plus, if the Indians don't deal Crisp they will have no use for another outfielder like Michaels. Edited January 25, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) These trade rumors are getting out of hand... http://www.journal-news.com/sports/content...125redsweb.html Maybe, though, the last event that sealed O’Brien’s firing Monday was a deal he didn’t make as late as last week. The Reds, Boston Red Sox and Cleveland Indians were in a three-way discussion, working on a proposal that would have brought pitcher Matt Clement to the Reds from the Red Sox. The Reds would have sent outfielder Austin Kearns to Cleveland and the Tribe would have sent outfielder Coco Crisp, catcher Josh Bard and pitcher David Riske to the Red Sox. At the last moment, Boston front office people say, the Reds backed out. That trade would have been highway robbery for the Red Sox. Edited January 25, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 DAMMIT. NOOOOO. STUPID MOTA. Do the deal anyway Boston. PLEASE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Agent Adam Katz denied a radio report out of Philadelphia that said Guillermo Mota had failed his physical with the Indians. Katz acknowledged that the Indians had raised issues with Mota's right shoulder. Semantics? Katz said Mota's arm "was good enough for Florida, good enough for Boston, and good enough for James Andrews, who cleared him." That doesn't mean it's good enough for Cleveland, though the Indians surely knew going in that there were going to be some issues. Hardly any pitchers with as much experience as Mota don't have some degree of wear and tear. Mota's is probably more extensive than most, but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't give a team 70 innings this year. Source: Boston Globe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) YES! Edited January 25, 2006 by jphat007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 07:26 PM) Does Coco also s*** gold? No but he does try and stay crunchy in milk. The milk gets all chocolatey. :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Damn, all Philly is asking for fer Michaels is Arthur Rhodes? That's one helluva deal for Cleveland if they're able to pull in Michaels + Marte while only giving up Coco and Rhodes... As a baseball fan, I'd like to see what Michaels can do in a full season of ABs, not just as a role player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I wouldn't mind a Abreu/Rhodes/spect for Conteras/Dye trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 10:49 PM) Damn, all Philly is asking for fer Michaels is Arthur Rhodes? That's one helluva deal for Cleveland if they're able to pull in Michaels + Marte while only giving up Coco and Rhodes... As a baseball fan, I'd like to see what Michaels can do in a full season of ABs, not just as a role player. I honestly think in a full season he would put up numbers right around what crisp does offensively. Defensively there would be a decline... but it is not massive enough that it should really hurt them... especially if arthur rhodes is all it takes. I think because michaels has never had a full season he is pretty underated around here. Edited January 25, 2006 by q\/\/3r+y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 07:01 PM) your presence in this thread is... appreciated. what was the greatest thing before sliced bread? I'm gonna go with a loaf of bread for 1000, Mr. Trebec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 11:49 PM) Damn, all Philly is asking for fer Michaels is Arthur Rhodes? That's one helluva deal for Cleveland if they're able to pull in Michaels + Marte while only giving up Coco and Rhodes... As a baseball fan, I'd like to see what Michaels can do in a full season of ABs, not just as a role player. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why don't you ask Cubs fans what they thought of Todd Hollandsworth getting a full season of work in 2005 after his pretty good stint as a role player in 2004? The 30 year old Michaels is a bench player for a reason. Think of all the other center fielders the Phills have used with Michaels. Lofton, Byrd, Glanville just to name a few. Edited January 25, 2006 by santo=dorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Why don't you ask Cubs fans what they thought of Todd Hollandsworth getting a full season of work in 2005 after his pretty good stint as a role player in 2004? The 30 year old Michaels is a bench player for a reason. Think of all the other center fielders the Phills have used with Michaels. Lofton, Byrd, Glanville just to name a few. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Byrd played 92 games in CF for the Phillies in 2004 and hit .228 / .287 / .321 / .608 in 346 AB's. Meanwhile, Michaels played 44 games in CF for the Phillies in 2004 and hit .274 / .364 / .415 / .779 in 299 AB's. I'd say mentioning Byrd is a poor argument. There's a reason Larry Bowa was fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 12:51 AM) Byrd played 92 games in CF for the Phillies in 2004 and hit .228 / .287 / .321 / .608 in 346 AB's. Meanwhile, Michaels played 44 games in CF for the Phillies in 2004 and hit .274 / .364 / .415 / .779 in 299 AB's. I'd say mentioning Byrd is a poor argument. There's a reason Larry Bowa was fired. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How about his other CF partners since 2002? (Eric Valent, Ricky Ledee, Endy Chavez, and Shane Victorino) Is that completely Bowa's fault as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) How about his other CF partners since 2002? (Eric Valent, Ricky Ledee, Endy Chavez, and Shane Victorino) Is that completely Bowa's fault as well? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I understand starting Kenny Lofton over Michaels. Lofton was raking the ball even more than Michaels. But look at some decisions that managers make. Dusty Baker continued to start Todd Hollandsworth over Matt Murton. Ozzie used Timo Perez as a leadoff hitter. Managers don't always make the best decisions. What can I say? But look at Michaels' career splits and 2005 splits. He hits both lefties and righties well for a center fielder. What is Michaels' major weakness that makes him strictly a fourth outfielder in your opinion then? You brought up Todd Hollandsworth as a reason why Michaels is a fourth outfielder at best but Brady Clark of the Brewers is a good example of why Michaels could be the real deal as a full-time starter. Edited January 25, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 09:26 PM) I know that all things that become RedSox immediately get the golden blessing from all baseball gods, but slow down the perennial all-star predictions. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> his season last year, translated into the centerfield position, would have netted him as the best centerfielder in the american league. i never labeled him a perennial all-star, i said there is a chance, just like there is that same chance for marte. the point is, if you would have actually taken a minute or two to read the goddamn thread, there are people in here who dont think crisp is the best player involved in this nondeal. im with kalapse, many people on this board are comical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 As of today, Crisp is the best player involved in ... well, nothing. But, R&W is correct, imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) Crisp's offense would be great from CF but he has to prove he can play good defense as a full-time center fielder. I don't know much about Crisp's defense in CF but I seem to remember that he has a weak arm. And judging by his FPCT, RF, and ZR, he looks like a pretty big defensive downgrade in CF from Damon. Edited January 25, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 According to the morning papers, the trade's on hold because Mota failed his physical. Today's Boston Herald is saying that the Reds want to make it a 3 way, with them getting Clement, according to ProSportsDaily.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samclemens Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 crisp was good; these minor leaguers have not been proven like crisp has. bad deal for the tribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 12:51 AM) Crisp's offense would be great from CF but he has to prove he can play good defense as a full-time center fielder. I don't know much about Crisp's defense in CF but I seem to remember that he has a weak arm. And judging by his FPCT, RF, and ZR, he looks like a pretty big defensive downgrade in CF from Damon. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> defensive ability in centerfield: crisp>damon please, pal, enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 12:30 AM) his season last year, translated into the centerfield position, would have netted him as the best centerfielder in the american league. whoa whoa whoa, best CF in what way? Defensively? I hope you arent suggesting offensively. Translated stats dont really mean much. Wasnt pods one of the best LF'ers defensively last year? If you moved him to CF he wouldnt be nearly as effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 10:21 AM) defensive ability in centerfield: crisp>damon please, pal, enough. based on what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 09:51 AM) based on what? I think it was based on Crisp's CF stats this year which was a .955 FP 2.37 RF .778 ZR Or maybe 2004 where his RF was 2.32 and his ZR was .865 while playing CF. For his range factor in 2005 he would have been behind (In the AL): J Reed 3.05 Nook Logan 2.93 Johnny Damon 2.93 David Dejesus 2.80 matos 2.77 rowand 2.57 Sizemore 2.47 Williams 2.42 Wells 2.41 In Zone rating he would have been 9th with his stats from 2004 and not even on the charts this year. Someone explain to me how this makes him the best defensive Cf'er? Edited January 25, 2006 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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