Indians acquire Jason Michaels for Arthur Rhodes

[Steve9347]

He is a better Ross Gload. I doubt Michaels hits .270 if he gets 500 AB's.

 

This board brings up Ross Gload WAY too much. Gload sucks, has sucked, and always will suck. His late 2004 campaign was an aberration. I like Gload too, but he is not what so many think he can be.

[jackie hayes]

I think a lot of people are overrating Crisp and underrating Michaels. CC's a good steady player, but he doesn't have the patience of JM (fewer walks, sees fewer pitches) -- which means a lower obp. Crisp does have a bit more pop, and is a better baserunner. They're both pretty good against both lhp and rhp. So I don't see why there's an enormous dropoff.

 

I'm not saying they're better than the Sox. Right now I think we look like the best team in the majors. But as hot as the Indians were to close the season, they were awful cold at the start. There's some good evidence that they had a lot of bad luck last year. (I mean, just look at Millwood's w-l.) Anyone who's "not worried" about the Tribe is being more than a little overconfident.

[Kyyle23]

Interesting...

 

See, thats what I thought. You listed their bullpen earlier as fine with the removal of Rhodes, but its also the removal of Riske. They lost their 3 main setup guys from last year that made them one of the best bullpens in baseball, and replaced it with 3 guys who are invited to ST with minor league contracts. As a whole, the Indians may be getting better down the line, but from last year to this year they are really downgrading their pitching.

[SSH2005]

This board brings up Ross Gload WAY too much.  Gload sucks, has sucked, and always will suck.  His late 2004 campaign was an aberration.  I like Gload too, but he is not what so many think he can be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think that Gload sucks but to say that Michaels is barely better than him is inaccurate. Michaels is better at drawing walks, posts a high OPS, and plays good defense at a much more difficult position. Gload plays a good defensive 1B but he's a butcher in the outfield. And if you want to talk about small sample sizes with Michaels, Gload is even worse with only 338 career AB's.

 

See, thats what I thought.  You listed their bullpen earlier as fine with the removal of Rhodes, but its also the removal of Riske.  They lost their 3 main setup guys from last year that made them one of the best bullpens in baseball, and replaced it with 3 guys who are invited to ST with minor league contracts.  As a whole, the Indians may be getting better down the line, but from last year to this year they are really downgrading their pitching.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never saw a report that Riske would be involved in the trade. I thought it was just supposed to be Crisp for Marte and Mota which would be a fine trade in my opinion. If it's Crisp and Riske for Marte and Mota, it's a bad trade.

Edited January 24, 2006 by SSH2005

[Dick Allen]

I never saw a report that Riske would be involved in the trade.  I thought it was just supposed to be Crisp for Marte and Mota which would be a fine trade in my opinion.  If it's Crisp and Riske for Marte and Mota, it's a bad trade.

He sometimes has his problems, but I really like Riske. Anyone know Foulke's status for 2006? If he came back healthy, at least Boston would have a good bullpen to go with Ortiz and Manny. I don't Schilling will be able to get back to where he was, but Beckett will be great when he isn't sitting out with blisters. I think the Red Sox will be better than a lot of people think.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Dick Allen

[Rowand44]

Or a complete White Sox homer, which in this case(at least I think your referring to Jphat) its true, he is just a huge Sox homer.

 

The Central is going to have some GREAT games this year, and I expect this season to be more stressful than the last, if thats even possible.

Best division in baseball, imo.

[SSH2005]

Or a complete White Sox homer, which in this case(at least I think your referring to Jphat) its true, he is just a huge Sox homer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Everyone must know this by now.

[ZoomSlowik]

Besides us and the A's you'll have a hard time finding teams with a better rotation in the AL then the Twins.  As far as their bullpen goes, they have 3 absolute studs at the back end, Matt Guerrier who is a solid long reliever, and then they have a bunch of kids who knowing Minny will do just fine as the 5th or 6th relievers out of that pen.    Their offense is nothing special but it'll be better then last season and their pitching overall will be better as well imo, they're going to ride their arms all year and I think they win the WC but obviously that's jmo.

 

I'm sorry, their pitching just doesn't impress me (I'd probably take the Angels by the way, assuming Colon's shoulder isn't really bad). They're relying on two youngsters, a somewhat fading veteran, and another guy that missed most of last year pretty heavily. I guess they have Lohse too, but he's decidedly mediocre. Nathan-Rincon-Crain is pretty good, but as I said, none of them are lefty and they don't really have another solid arm in the pen. Plus their pitching has to be significantly better than ours or Cleveland's to really make a difference in those 30 something games that they have to play those teams. It's definitely not stronger than ours and I don't think it's that much better than Cleveland's. Outside of Santana, you just can't count on anyone on their starting staff to consistently win games against stronger competition. I'll stand by my statement that they need either Liriano or Baker to pitch like a front of the rotation guy to really make a difference.

 

I forgot one other wildcard that could help their lineup: Jason Kubel. Assuming he's healthy, that could give them a legit hitter with decent power and speed. He might get lost in the shuffle a bit though since they seem to have several OF's.

[Chisoxfn]

The main reason the Twins struggled last season was because of their lack of offense.  And I don't think they improved it enough to not stuggle to score runs in 2006.

They should have a little better pitching (especially in regards to starting) and a healthy Torri Hunter. I think the Twins finish 2nd to the Sox and if we stumble out of the gate as the team gels or have injuries they could very well pass us.

 

I think Cleveland got more worse than people think, plus I expect a few of their guys to regress a bit (happens with youngsters often). I think they will be very good though in another year or two.

[Rowand44]

I'm sorry, their pitching just doesn't impress me (I'd probably take the Angels by the way, assuming Colon's shoulder isn't really bad). They're relying on two youngsters, a somewhat fading veteran, and another guy that missed most of last year pretty heavily. I guess they have Lohse too, but he's decidedly mediocre. Nathan-Rincon-Crain is pretty good, but as I said, none of them are lefty and they don't really have another solid arm in the pen. Plus their pitching has to be significantly better than ours or Cleveland's to really make a difference in those 30 something games that they have to play those teams. It's definitely not stronger than ours and I don't think it's that much better than Cleveland's. Outside of Santana, you just can't count on anyone on their starting staff to consistently win games against stronger competition. I'll stand by my statement that they need either Liriano or Baker to pitch like a front of the rotation guy to really make a difference.

 

I forgot one other wildcard that could help their lineup: Jason Kubel. Assuming he's healthy, that could give them a legit hitter with decent power and speed. He might get lost in the shuffle a bit though since they seem to have several OF's.

Fair enough zoom, we both got our points across, we'll just agree to disagree and see once the season starts.

[ZoomSlowik]

It's not so much that I think that the rest of the division is brutal. I think Cleveland will win somewhere around 90 games and that the Twins will be around 86-88. That'd work in a lot of other divisions. I just think that it won't matter because the Sox appear to have a 100-win type team.

 

They have the best starting rotation in baseball and it goes 6 deep. Their lineup got a huge boost by adding Thome and now features two guys capable of 40 homers and 100 RBI plus 5 other guys that could hit 20 homers (Dye, Crede, Uribe, Iguchi, and half credit each for AJ and Anderson). They also have two young relievers that were dominant for good stretches and two other veterans that were very good last year. I really don't see any major problems for the Sox team, so I'm not particularly worried about the two teams behind us that have some flaws.

[SSH2005]

The Red Sox can win 100+ games if everything goes right Dick.

 

If Schilling is healthy, Beckett can make 30 starts, Foulke is Foulke of 2000-2003, Lowell produces like he once did, ect... ect.....

 

The Red Sox probably have the most question marks of any team. They could win 100, or they IMO could actaully finish around .500 if 39 year old Schilling isnt what he once was, Beckett continues to have blister problems, Foulke doesnt come back strong(He is a HUGE ???????)

 

They also dont have a SS at all right now, and might have the weakest 1b platoon in the AL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are supposedly going to sign Alex Gonzalez (the better one, oh wait, both A-Gonz's suck ass).

[Balta1701]

He sometimes has his problems, but I really like Riske. Anyone know Foulke's status for 2006? If he came back healthy, at least Boston would have a good bullpen to go with Ortiz and Manny. I don't Schilling will be able to get back to where he was, but Beckett will be great when he isn't sitting out with blisters. I think the Red Sox will be better than a lot of people think.

According to SI, Foulke has lost weight and got himself back into shape after surgery on both knees, he'll probably be ready to start ST.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(3E8 @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 05:10 PM)

When Michaels gets 500 AB's he won't produce like he has as a role player in the past but the dropoff from Crisp to Michaels will be minimal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What makes you draw this conclusion?

QUOTE(3E8 @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 05:10 PM)

  When you factor in that the comparison between Millwood + Elarton and Byrd + Johnson is a wash, I still see the Central going to us or the Indians.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No way.

Jason Johnson is atrocious from the spacious Comerica park and his career numbers are s***tier than Elarton's. Byrd won't come close to pitching like Millwood did in 2005 either. Definate downgrade in my book.

[SSH2005]

No way.

Jason Johnson is atrocious from the spacious Comerica park and his career numbers are s***tier than Elarton's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Say what?

 

Scott Elarton

5.10 career ERA

89 career ERA+

 

Jason Johnson

4.88 career ERA

91 career ERA+

Edited January 25, 2006 by SSH2005

[qwerty]

This...

 

I'll always remember his bling bling incident.  But there was a time where he was one of the best, if not the best, lefty reliever in the game.

 

Is no reason to say this.

 

Mota is a BIG downgrade from Rhodes. Marte won't play.

 

Mota was one of the top set-up men in 2003 and 2004 and had good peripherials in 2002. There isn't a question in my mind who has the better stuff and i am pretty sure most people would take him over rhodes 9-10.

 

The only real advantage rhodes has over mota is that he is left handed.

[witesoxfan]

I see the Twins finishing in 3rd place.  Luis Castillo was a great pickup but Rondell White and Tony Batista?  C'mon...

 

Batista I agree with. However, you are big into stats, yet you somehow look over Rondell White's .313 12 53 .348/.489/.837 campaign last year? Or his career .289 average, .343/.472/.815 line?

 

I thought White was a great pickup too, along with Castillo. I would take that out of my fulltime DH if my payroll is next to nothing anyday of the week. He should be hitting anywhere from 3-5 in the order, and any one of those makes him a very valuable player.

[jphat007]

Or a complete White Sox homer, which in this case(at least I think your referring to Jphat) its true, he is just a huge Sox homer.

 

The Central is going to have some GREAT games this year, and I expect this season to be more stressful than the last, if thats even possible.

 

Haha. The Sox have gotten better. The Indians have gotten worse. We were 14-5 against the Indians last year. Where is the disconnect? Sure, it could very well be extremely close and we can lose, but there is no real reason for that to happen.

 

I may overrate some of the things we do about the Sox, but everybody else sure seems to slurp Minny and Cleveland an awful lot. I feel like I'm surrounded by Indian and Twin fans on this board sometimes.

 

Edited January 25, 2006 by jphat007

[YASNY]

Haha. The Sox have gotten better. The Indians have gotten worse. We were 14-5 against the Indians last year. Where is the disconnect? Sure, it could very well be extremely close and we can lose, but there is no real reason for that to happen.

 

I may overrate some of the things we do about the Sox, but everybody else sure seems to slurp Minny and Cleveland an awful lot. I feel like I'm surrounded by Indian and Twin fans on this board sometimes.

 

 

Actually, there are some of us the look at the competition and give them the respect they are entitled to. Watch this game long enough and you'll learn that things come together that aren't expected to come together, and things fall apart that would be the last thing you'd expect. There is some talent on those teams.

[jphat007]

Actually, there are some of us the look at the competition and give them the respect they are entitled to.  Watch this game long enough and you'll learn that things come together that aren't expected to come together, and things fall apart that would be the last thing you'd expect.  There is some talent on those teams.

 

I have watched the game for a long time. I've said many times that we can lose the division next year. We could even finish third. Everyone could get hurt, everyone could get beat up. But coming off of a year in which we won 99 games and improved the team, while Minny improved only a little and Cleveland actually got worse, there is no real reason to say they should beat us, or even hang with us. Now if I was a fan of those teams in that position I would certainly feel otherwise. They are certainly entitled to that. Hope is what makes sports fun.

 

They have plenty of talent. That doesn't change anything. I'm not gonna sit here and slurp them because they do. I'm not an Indians or Twins fan. I'm knowledgable enough to know that they can beat us any given year, but I'm not gonna sit here and slurp them and say it every chance I get. That's for the Indians and Twins fans to do.

 

Maybe it's just that people are trying to lower expectations and build up those two teams so they don't get themselves dissapointed if they beat us this year, which is certainly a possibility. Expect them to be awesome to soften the blow if we get beat this year. Maybe that has something to do with it. I dunno. Damn right I'm a Sox homer. They are my team.

Edited January 25, 2006 by jphat007

[Milkman delivers]

I don't know about you guys, but I think this is Detroit's division to win. But those Indians, they will be the thorn in their sides.

[Kyyle23]

I don't know about you guys, but I think this is Detroit's division to win.  But those Indians, they will be the thorn in their sides.

 

Its gonna be between the two of them, as far as I am concerned.....

[jphat007]

Its gonna be between the two of them, as far as I am concerned.....

 

Dmitri Young will happily agree with you.

[YASNY]

I have watched the game for a long time. I've said many times that we can lose the division next year. We could even finish third. Everyone could get hurt, everyone could get beat up. But coming off of a year in which we won 99 games and improved the team, while Minny improved only a little and Cleveland actually got worse, there is no real reason to say they should beat us, or even hang with us. Now if I was a fan of those teams in that position I would certainly feel otherwise. They are certainly entitled to that. Hope is what makes sports fun.

 

They have plenty of talent. That doesn't change anything. I'm not gonna sit here and slurp them because they do. I'm not an Indians or Twins fan. I'm knowledgable enough to know that they can beat us any given year, but I'm not gonna sit here and slurp them and say it every chance I get. That's for the Indians and Twins fans to do.

 

Maybe it's just that people are trying to lower expectations and build up those two teams so they don't get themselves dissapointed if they beat us this year, which is certainly a possibility. Expect them to be awesome to soften the blow if we get beat this year. Maybe that has something to do with it. I dunno. Damn right I'm a Sox homer. They are my team.

 

Just curious here. Define "a long time". I'm a diehard Sox fan. No ifs, ands, or buts about it and there many on here that can tell you as much. I wasn't questioning your degree of fandom. But what you so maturely call 'slurping' I call respecting your opponents.

[jphat007]

Just curious here.  Define "a long time".  I'm a diehard Sox fan.  No ifs, ands, or buts about it and there many on here that can tell you as much. I wasn't questioning your degree of fandom.  But what you so maturely call 'slurping' I call respecting your opponents.

I dont doubt you, or anyone here (for the most part), is a big Sox fan. I just wonder why so many people fall over themselves talking so greatly about Cleveland like they've improved and are close to overtaking us. We won the division by 6 games despite the fact that they had an incredible August and September. Meanwhile, they do not appear to be anywhere near as good as last year, and we have improved the holes that we needed to fill. And I'm trying to find the psychology in people saying "watch out for the great Cleveland." I expect us to win the division, even though there is a distinct possibility we could lose it.

 

I respect Cleveland and the run they had last year. You can be a homer and still be objective. I hope we are all homers in some way. Oh well. Doesn't really matter. What will happen this year will happen, and if people like to hype up Cleveland, thats cool by me.