Felix Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 11:15 AM) You're right about Clemens being the best of all time...but RIGHT NOW, I'd take Buehrle. 5 years ago, I'd have taken Rocket. So you mean, the year after Clemens has a year with a sub-2.00 ERA and lets up something like 2 runs all year on the road, you'd take Buehrle over him? Edit, sorry, he had 14 earned runs on the road, and 19 runs in total. I was thinking of him at the ASB. Edited January 26, 2006 by Felix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 11:15 AM) You're right about Clemens being the best of all time...but RIGHT NOW, I'd take Buehrle. 5 years ago, I'd have taken Rocket. How is that even possible? Rocket had an insanely great season last year, he was better than Buehrle in just about every facet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 10:15 AM) You're right about Clemens being the best of all time...but RIGHT NOW, I'd take Buehrle. 5 years ago, I'd have taken Rocket. How so? Clemens had a 1.87 ERA last year and a 1.01 whip. 185 ks as well. Mark wasnt as good as him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 10:17 AM) How is that even possible? Rocket had an insanely great season last year, he was better than Buehrle in just about every facet. so was pettite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Yes, but you fail to prove that point. And everything on just about every one of their resume's is better than Buehrle. Noone is saying he sucks here, but you are putting him ahead of some of the elite pitchers of the last 10 years, based on last season. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Based on the last 5 seasons! BTW, if that's the case, how could you say Peavy, Halliday, Santana, Prior, Zambrano are even as good as Buehrle? They have had 1, maybe 2 good years each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 11:19 AM) Based on the last 5 seasons! BTW, if that's the case, how could you say Peavy, Halliday, Santana, Prior, Zambrano are even as good as Buehrle? They have had 1, maybe 2 good years each. Im sorry, do you even watch baseball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 You can have opionions, but coming on here, stating that in your opinion the earth is really flat, then expect everyone to just respect that view is ignorant. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Except that if I said for example, that 2+2=5, that is a statement that can be proven wrong, whereas if I say I'd rather have Mark Buehrle pitching for me than Roger Clemens, you cannot prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 11:21 AM) Except that if I said for example, that 2+2=5, that is a statement that can be proven wrong, whereas if I say I'd rather have Mark Buehrle pitching for me than Roger Clemens, you cannot prove me wrong. Look at any stat. Ask any analyst. Ask any sensible person. They will all tell you Clemens is better than Buehrle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Im sorry, do you even watch baseball? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dude...you just said that I can't base my opinion of MB based one his having one good season...he has had as many, if not more good seasons than any of the pitchers I have just mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 11:21 AM) Except that if I said for example, that 2+2=5, that is a statement that can be proven wrong, whereas if I say I'd rather have Mark Buehrle pitching for me than Roger Clemens, you cannot prove me wrong. but thats the funny thing. You didnt say that. You said, and continue to say that Mark Buehrle is BETTER than the above mentioned pitchers. You saying that you would rather have Buehrle start over Clemens is you changing your argument mid-stream, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 10:19 AM) Based on the last 5 seasons! BTW, if that's the case, how could you say Peavy, Halliday, Santana, Prior, Zambrano are even as good as Buehrle? They have had 1, maybe 2 good years each. Santana's past 4 years >>>> Buehrle's past 5. Johan's highest ERA over that time was 3.07 and his highest whip was 1.23. Johan has put up a sub 1 whip over the past 2 years to go along with a 2.61 and 2.87 ERAs. How has Buehrle out produced him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 10:19 AM) Based on the last 5 seasons! BTW, if that's the case, how could you say Peavy, Halliday, Santana, Prior, Zambrano are even as good as Buehrle? They have had 1, maybe 2 good years each. Come on, at least watch some baseball to base your opinions on something. Peavy's last 2 years were better than Mark's. His career ERA is better than Marks. Halladay and Santana both have Cy Young awards. Santana's last 4 seasons he posted ERAs of 2.88, 2.61, 3.07, 2.99. Halladay also has a career ERA better than Mark. His last 5 seasons looked like this: 2.41, 4.20, 3.25, 2.93, 3.16. I would rather have Mark over EVERY cubs pitcher. But basically They have had better than 1 or 2 good years. You need to research other players man. Edited January 26, 2006 by RockRaines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 11:22 AM) Dude...you just said that I can't base my opinion of MB based one his having one good season...he has had as many, if not more good seasons than any of the pitchers I have just mentioned. Oh yeah? Prove it mr smarty pants. If you are gonna shoot your mouth off repeatedly, back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Look at any stat. Ask any analyst. Ask any sensible person. They will all tell you Clemens is better than Buehrle. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree. Over the course of their respective careers, Clemens is much better than Buehrle. However, in 2006 AND beyond, I'd rather have Buehrle than Clemens. (Rocket is 43!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 11:23 AM) I agree. Over the course of their respective careers, Clemens is much better than Buehrle. However, in 2006 AND beyond, I'd rather have Buehrle than Clemens. (Rocket is 43!!!) who asked that? What does that have to do with what we are arguing about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 10:23 AM) I agree. Over the course of their respective careers, Clemens is much better than Buehrle. However, in 2006 AND beyond, I'd rather have Buehrle than Clemens. (Rocket is 43!!!) So you would rather have a current pitcher over one that is retiring? Smart move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 10:23 AM) I agree. Over the course of their respective careers, Clemens is much better than Buehrle. However, in 2006 AND beyond, I'd rather have Buehrle than Clemens. (Rocket is 43!!!) Do you have a single stat to back up your arguement that Buehrle has outproduced Santana over the course of their careers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Come on, at least watch some baseball to base your opinions on something. Peavy's last 2 years were better than Mark's. His career ERA is better than Marks. Halladay and Santana both have Cy Young awards. Santana's last 4 seasons he posted ERAs of 2.88, 2.61, 3.07, 2.99. Halladay also has a career ERA better than Mark. His last 5 seasons looked like this: 2.41, 4.20, 3.25, 2.93, 3.16. I would rather have Mark over EVERY cubs pitcher. But basically They have had better than 1 or 2 good years. You need to research other players man. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Over the last 5 yeras, who has the most wins out of all the pitchers mentioned? You guys have access to all the stats...educate me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 11:26 AM) Over the last 5 yeras, who has the most wins out of all the pitchers mentioned? You guys have access to all the stats...educate me. Wins, the holy grail of pitching stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 10:26 AM) Over the last 5 yeras, who has the most wins out of all the pitchers mentioned? You guys have access to all the stats...educate me. Wins are the most overrated stat of which to rate a pitcher, give me ERA, WHIP, OPS against, BAA any of those over wins which can sway all to easy. This argument also means that Russ Ortiz is an elite pitcher because he gets a lot of wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 10:26 AM) Over the last 5 yeras, who has the most wins out of all the pitchers mentioned? You guys have access to all the stats...educate me. Now you are talking about something that has alot to do with the team that they play for. ERA's are about the best statistic that shows how good a pitcher is individually. Cant you just admit that you didnt know what you were talking about and leave it at that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 11:26 AM) Over the last 5 yeras, who has the most wins out of all the pitchers mentioned? You guys have access to all the stats...educate me. Without looking at the stats, I can tell you that wins are team dependant, meaning a pitcher could have a spectacular game, but still lose the game. Just look at Roger Clemens last year. He was the best pitcher in the league, but only had 13 wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 who asked that? What does that have to do with what we are arguing about? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I asked, if you had a WS on the line and had to pick one of these guys to win your game 7, who do you pick? I'd go with MB (or Pedro) (proven CLUTCH pitchers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 11:28 AM) I asked, if you had a WS on the line and had to pick one of these guys to win your game 7, who do you pick? I'd go with MB (or Pedro) (proven CLUTCH pitchers). I'd take the best pitcher, who is Johan Santana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE(Steve Bartman's my idol @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 10:22 AM) Dude...you just said that I can't base my opinion of MB based one his having one good season...he has had as many, if not more good seasons than any of the pitchers I have just mentioned. Mark Buehrle vs. Roger Clemens. Hmmmm. Let me consider that for a moment. Are you out of your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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