Question for the Jose Fans

[Chisoxfn]

When are his offensive numbers going to be too low for him not to make up his shoddy defense?

 

Right as I said that he actually got a hit, his 999th of his career.

 

Only reason I'm asking is because he always stinks offensively, yet people always talk about how good he is. People can say we won in 2000 with him, but that means nothing. Like we wouldn't of won in 2000 with a good shortstop not named Jose. Heck, we would of won with pretty much anyone at shortstop.

 

How can people defend a guy that never has had a high obp in his career, strikes out a lot and can't hit lefties whatsoever yet Manuel continues to play him against lefties while sitting Jimenez (Hitting well over .300 against lefties).

 

I'm sorry, I tried to stick and root for Jose this year, but he stinks. I've never seen one thing good about him other then his high avg with runners on base and this year thats far from happening. This guy is getting paid 4.5 million to play crappy offense while not being able to hit over .250

 

People always talked about how Royce would have terrible starts, yet last season I do recall Royce outhitting Jose for a while (Not sure if it finished that way) and that wasn't really all that late in the season when that was happening. I remember it happening relatively early. Again this year Jose is doing the same after a good week and a half to start the season.

 

Who gives a DAMN what kind of a leader he is, He ISN'T a starter. He played for the Brewers and Sox those are hardly winning teams, so how is this guy a winner? He may have a great attitude but there are plenty of guys out there that have a great attitude and produce. Heck, why not let Graffy be the regular shortstop and see what he can do. He isn't worse then Jose defensively and he actually draws walk and has a high obp. Now I don't think Graffy can keep that up over a full season, but he's still a way better option then Jose.

 

Why can't the Sox be more agressive, see things like this and move Jimenez to short and give Miles a shot. People can say thats a stupid thing to do, but as far as I'm concerned Jose isn't doing a damn thing anyway, so why not see if Miles can do something. If Miles can be productive and I know Jimenez is productive then the Sox would have a rather formidable 1-2 punch.

 

Now I'm far from saying Jose is the only problem, cause one guy doesn't sink an offense, but he's a big part of the equation just as Konerko, Thomas (To a lesser extent; Even though his numbers suck he's one of the best on the team right now), Carlos, and anyone playing center (Not including Borchard). I could give a damn about what Olivo, Crede and Borchard do because you CAN"T count on things from rookies. You ask for them to play good defense and improve. I've seen plenty of improvement from Crede and Olivo and both are stellar defensively. They do things right where they can make up for their shoddy offensive performances by playing good in the field.

 

Jose can't do that, Konerko can't do that, Carlos is damn well trying to do that, while Frank can't do it and Magglio (Although dissapointing is coming on strong as of late).

 

You want to know whats wrong with this team, there is a lot, but lets stop forgetting that Jose makes a ton of mistakes defensively and can't hit his weight. Look at his numbers and the only thing impressive is the power and avg with runnesr in scoring position. Fact is I don't think that makes up for his crappy defense and absolute hole at the plate avg as well as the fact that he has a terrible obp and usually has just that.

[Chisoxfn]

I'll give Jose a bit of credit today, he had a stolen base and a hit. He was the one who helped manufacture a run. He also made a horrible play on a fly ball that led to a run. Wasn't ruled an error, but if he makes a good read he gets to that ball and the Sox never go to extra innings.

[witesoxfan]

Good range, he hits well in the clutch, and he has good power. He's the type of ballplayer that makes things happen.

 

He is hitting very poorly right now. He'll break out of it.

[southsider2k5]

Good range, he hits well in the clutch, and he has good power.  He's the type of ballplayer that makes things happen.

 

He is hitting very poorly right now.  He'll break out of it.

He is hitting very poorly right now. He'll break out of it.

 

It is sad but when you see that quote, if there isn't a name attached to it, you would have no idea who specifically on this team is being referred to!

[Molto]

once again, what good is range when you can't make the throw? what good is clutch if nobody is on base to make it a clutch situation. god I hate to keep saying it, but that is the truth.

[Chisoxfn]

once again, what good is range when you can't make the throw? what good is clutch if nobody is on base to make it a clutch situation.  god I hate to keep saying it, but that is the truth.

How is he clutch, the numbers don't show that this season. I look at his avg, it stinks. His career avg stinks, his career numbers stink and his errors stink.

[clujer420]

How is he clutch, the numbers don't show that this season.  I look at his avg, it stinks.  His career avg stinks, his career numbers stink and his errors stink.

Jason, lay off of Jose.

 

He's not the only guy stinking it up, so don't single him out.

[greg775]

I used to stick up for Jose all the time.

I still like him, but do we have anybody in our farm system at ss who will replace him before long?

Or are we void of ss candidates?

I hated Clayton cause he couldn't hit the ball. Royce would have fit right in this year with our lack of offense.

[Chisoxfn]

Jason, lay off of Jose.

 

He's not the only guy stinking it up, so don't single him out.

No he isn't, but he is the only one that is stinking at all aspects of the game in my mind. You could also say that Konerko is as well as he has been sub par defensively this year and I think everyone has heard me say we should move him.

 

I won't lay off Jose because people are always making excuses for reasons we should let him be our starter and he is not an acceptable shortstop on a team that is going to win the series. No team will win with a shortstop that can't hit and boots routine balls or throws them away. I could care less if he can make the spectacular play if he boots so many routine plays.

 

Alex Gonzalez of the Cubs is way better then Jose. That should say something right there. I don't think Gonzalez is very good either and he is far superior defensively to Jose.

 

Shorstop, catcher and centerfield are 3 positions where it really helps to have great defensive players. Behind the plate we have one, in center we have been lost, but Borchard is really good defensively and has a gun. Jose has none of those aspects. His 25 homers do not make up for his atrocious defense because he is not a consistent player. If he hit a consistent .265 I wouldn't complain as much. But he hits .220 for an entire season and then has one month where he hits good.

[Mr. Showtime]

He makes too much money to be benched, so keep on hoping for him to be benched Jason.

[Chisoxfn]

He makes too much money to be benched, so keep on hoping for him to be benched Jason.

He makes too much money as it is. I always thought the Sox overpaid him. 4.5 mill for crap is a bad investment. It could be worse, it could be 8 mill over 2 more years for Konerko.

[Heads22]

Well, if it means anything, Jose has a better fielding percentage than Crede.

[Mr. Showtime]

He makes too much money as it is.  I always thought the Sox overpaid him.  4.5 mill for crap is a bad investment.  It could be worse, it could be 8 mill over 2 more years for Konerko.

I agree, don't worry they'll both be gone soon.

[Chisoxfn]

Well, if it means anything, Jose has a better fielding percentage than Crede.

Crede is really good defensively though. Young 3rd baseman always have this tendency to struggle when coming to the show.

 

I can remember Chavez being rather weak defensively and then developing into a gold glover after a year or two. Mainly they just learn the minute things. Troy Glaus was the same way and now he is one of the better ones. Crede is one of the best defensive 3rd baseman in the bigs or he will be.

[Soxplosion]

I respect him for staying here for less money than could have been had in Baltimore. I respect him for always trying his best.

 

But hes hitting .226. In my mind, where leaders lead by example, he aint a leader. So until he gets that BA up, he better stop pointing fingers...

[witesoxfan]

I respect him for staying here for less money than could have been had in Baltimore. I respect him for always trying his best.

 

But hes hitting .226. In my mind, where leaders lead by example, he aint a leader. So until he gets that BA up, he better stop pointing fingers...

Show me where he was pointing fingers. I want to see this

[Chisoxfn]

I respect him for staying here for less money than could have been had in Baltimore. I respect him for always trying his best.

 

But hes hitting .226. In my mind, where leaders lead by example, he aint a leader. So until he gets that BA up, he better stop pointing fingers...

Show me where he was pointing fingers. I want to see this

He's pointed plenty of fingers. Not at individual players I don't think. Bust last year he went public with his whining and he did it once or twice this year.

 

I don't give a damn if a player is going to point fingers, as long as they can say its not their fault. Jose is a big reason this team sucks as our quite a few of the other guys. I don't list our pitchers on here cause they have overall been good. Jimenez has been good too while Olivo has been above what I expected to start off with. Everyone else can be ripped, minus Graffy and I guess Ordonez whose been solid, just well below what we expect from him.

[Molto]

it is funny how people can blame Thomas individually, or Jimenez individually, or Koch individually, or Konerko, or Gordon, but god forbid Valentin is criticized even though he's more deserving than anyone.

 

we are 3-18 when we make an error and coincedentally, Valentin is our worst defensive player.

he is way overrated.

[Soxplosion]

I respect him for staying here for less money than could have been had in Baltimore. I respect him for always trying his best.

 

But hes hitting .226. In my mind, where leaders lead by example, he aint a leader. So until he gets that BA up, he better stop pointing fingers...

Show me where he was pointing fingers. I want to see this

Last year. He can point fingers in the clubhouse, thats fine. In fact I support it. But hes doing two things wrong. Hes hitting .226 (maybe he should start pointing fingers at himself). Lead by example, I just cant say that enough. And he went to the media. The media always makes things seem worse than it really is and it exposes our problems to everyone. Jose just needs to shut up and make sure he himself plays to his full potential...

[Soxplosion]

it is funny how people can blame Thomas individually, or Jimenez individually, or Koch individually, or Konerko, or Gordon, but god forbid Valentin is criticized even though he's more deserving than anyone.

 

we are 3-18 when we make an error and coincedentally, Valentin is our worst defensive player.

he is way overrated.

For some odd reason, unbeknownst to me, everybody here has their lips secured quite tightly on Vals rear. Yet everyone hates Thomas, who, if anybody really cares, leads this franchise alltime in rbis, homeruns, walks and many other offensive categories. But theyd all rather crowd around a guy whos hitting .226...

[clujer420]

it is funny how people can blame Thomas individually, or Jimenez individually, or Koch individually, or Konerko, or Gordon, but god forbid Valentin is criticized even though he's more deserving than anyone.

 

we are 3-18 when we make an error and coincedentally, Valentin is our worst defensive player.

he is way overrated.

For some odd reason, unbeknownst to me, everybody here has their lips secured quite tightly on Vals rear. Yet everyone hates Thomas, who, if anybody really cares, leads this franchise alltime in rbis, homeruns, walks and many other offensive categories. But theyd all rather crowd around a guy whos hitting .226...

I don't understand the contempt for Frank either. It doesn't make sense.

[Chisoxfn]

it is funny how people can blame Thomas individually, or Jimenez individually, or Koch individually, or Konerko, or Gordon, but god forbid Valentin is criticized even though he's more deserving than anyone.

 

we are 3-18 when we make an error and coincedentally, Valentin is our worst defensive player.

he is way overrated.

For some odd reason, unbeknownst to me, everybody here has their lips secured quite tightly on Vals rear. Yet everyone hates Thomas, who, if anybody really cares, leads this franchise alltime in rbis, homeruns, walks and many other offensive categories. But theyd all rather crowd around a guy whos hitting .226...

Don't worry Roman, I crowd against Thomas, Valentin and Konerko. I think they all need to go. Thomas was great in his days, but he isn't helping the team. Of course he is 3rd or something on the club obp wise, which is nice, but he can't see anything.

[clujer420]

Thomas was great in his days, but he isn't helping the team.  Of course he is 3rd or something on the club obp wise, which is nice, but he can't see anything.

Frank = #1 on the team in OBP.

 

He's at .405 -- the only Sox regular with a .400+ OBP.

 

Graffy is #2 (.388) and Jimenez is #3 (.379).

 

And on a side note, Frank is the team leader in SLG % (for everyday players) at .497. Magglio is a close 2nd at .489, and Lee is 3rd.

 

Frank has 33 walks, while Konerko, Lee, and Magglio have combined for 37.

 

I'd say Frank has been a disappointment, no doubt -- but even in his "horrible years", he's helping the team more than some of the younger guys are.

[Soxplosion]

Frank = #1 on the team in OBP.

 

He's at .405 -- the only Sox regular with a .400+ OBP.

 

Graffy is #2 (.388) and Jimenez is #3 (.379).

 

And on a side note, Frank is the team leader in SLG % (for everyday players) at .497.  Magglio is a close 2nd at .489, and Lee is 3rd.

 

Frank has 33 walks, while Konerko, Lee, and Magglio have combined for 37.

 

I'd say Frank has been a disappointment, no doubt -- but even in his "horrible years", he's helping the team more than some of the younger guys are.

Awesome points clujer. And after all that hes done, how can you just spit in his face and tell him to leave? I think such heros need a bit more respect...

[clujer420]

Awesome points clujer. And after all that hes done, how can you just spit in his face and tell him to leave? I think such heros need a bit more respect...

Hero is far too strong of a word, but you're right, he deserves much more respect for what he's accomplished in his career and for what he's done for the Sox organization. The man is a Hall of Famer, and judging by the way some of you treat him, you'd think he was the biggest bum in the history of the game.

 

Shame on all of you who mistreat Frank.