Palestinian Elections

[Texsox]

78% of the people voted for Hamas representation, a group organized and "principled" on the annihilation of Israel and the Jews.

 

That sounds like a mandate to me.

 

Sorry, I just assumd there were more issues than just one. I assume then, in Israeli elections, Palestinians are the only issue as well?

 

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) - Hamas won a landslide victory in parliamentary elections as Palestinian voters rejected the longtime rule of the corruption-ridden Fatah Party, according to nearly complete official returns Thursday. The triumph by the Islamic militant group plunged the future of Mideast peacemaking into turmoil.

 

Oh wait, could it be they chose Hamas over corruption? Maybe they got tired of the corruption? Nope, the only chance it could be is they all want the end of Israel. BTW, do they elect people or is it just Israel Yes/No on the ballot?

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

Sorry, I just assumd there were more issues than just one. I assume then, in Israeli elections, Palestinians are the only issue as well?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When NORML runs a candidate for Office, it's platform is the legalization of marijuana.

 

When the Green Party runs a candidate, it's platform is the environment.

 

When Hamas run candidates...destruction of Israel.

[Texsox]

When NORML runs a candidate for Office, it's platform is the legalization of marijuana.

 

When the Green Party runs a candidate, it's platform is the environment.

 

When Hamas run candidates...destruction of Israel.

Excellent point

 

And when someone has the choice of voting for corruption or another party, do they have to buy into the entire agenda? If you have the choice of a Republican or a NORML candidate, you would take the Republican because you are against NORMLs stance? Of course, then you would agree 100% with the GOP stance.

 

 

I agree, this isn't a very good turn of events, but I'm not ready to slander all Palestinians because of this. David Duke won an election, does that mean the majority of people in his district wanted the destruction of all blacks?

[NorthSideSox72]

Excellent point

 

And when someone has the choice of voting for corruption or another party, do they have to buy into the entire agenda? If you have the choice of a Republican or a NORML candidate, you would take the Republican because you are against NORMLs stance? Of course, then you would agree 100% with the GOP stance.

 

 

I agree, this isn't a very good turn of events, but I'm not ready to slander all Palestinians because of this. David Duke won an election, does that mean the majority of people in his district wanted the destruction of all blacks?

 

I tried to have this discussion in an earlier thread, and its obvious SBMI has decided that all Palestians are evil. Further, he claims, Islam wants to destroy all non-Muslims.

 

Good luck trying to use any logic.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

I tried to have this discussion in an earlier thread, and its obvious SBMI has decided that all Palestians are evil.  Further, he claims, Islam wants to destroy all non-Muslims.

 

Good luck trying to use any logic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im not prepared to say all "palestinians" are evil, nor did I ever say that.

 

But, 78%....

 

BTW, it would be interesting to know how many "palestinian" Christiams voted for Hamas.

Edited January 26, 2006 by Steve Bartman's my idol

[NorthSideSox72]

But, 78%....

 

...Support Hamas - not necessarily the destruction of Israel. Let's see what Hamas is really capable of as a governmental force.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

Excellent point

 

And when someone has the choice of voting for corruption or another party, do they have to buy into the entire agenda? If you have the choice of a Republican or a NORML candidate, you would take the Republican because you are against NORMLs stance? Of course, then you would agree 100% with the GOP stance.

 

 

I agree, this isn't a very good turn of events, but I'm not ready to slander all Palestinians because of this. David Duke won an election, does that mean the majority of people in his district wanted the destruction of all blacks?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im sure David Duke doesn't get elected to office because of his views on the environment.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

...Support Hamas - not necessarily the destruction of Israel.  Let's see what Hamas is really capable of as a governmental force.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hamas = Destruction of Israel

[mr_genius]

how many "palestinian" Christiams voted for Hamas.

 

what, you hate christians now too?

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

Hamas

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Jump to: navigation, search

"Hamas" is also the former name of the Movement of Society for Peace, a political party in Algeria.

This article documents a current event.

Information may change rapidly as the event progresses.

Politics - Politics portal

 

Palestinian National Authority

 

 

 

This article is part of the series:

Politics and government of

the Palestinian National Authority

 

 

President: Mahmoud Abbas

Prime Minister: Ahmad Qurei

Palestinian Legislative Council

PLO

List of political parties

Elections:

President: 1996 2005

Legislative: 1996 2006

Oslo Accords

Al-Aqsa Intifada

State of Palestine

 

edit

 

 

The Hamas emblem shows two crossed swords, the Dome of the Rock, and a map of the land they claim as Palestine (roughly, present-day Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip).Hamas, acronym of Harakat al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyyah (Arabic: حركة المقاومة الاسلامية, literally "Islamic Resistance Movement" and Arabic for 'zeal'), is a Palestinian Islamist movement and political party closely related to the Muslim Brotherhood. Its stated goal is to "remove Israel from the map" [1], and to establish an Islamic theocracy in the area that is currently Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza strip. In pursuit of this, Hamas affirms a right to engage in military struggle. [2]. Hamas affirms a right to engage in military struggle to liberate the post-1967 Occupied Territores and has repeatedly affirmed that its claims over the pre-1967 area of Israel.

 

Hamas is listed as a terrorist group by the European Union, Canada, the United States, and Israel, and its attacks targeting Israeli civilians and other human rights abuses have been condemned by the United Nations Commission on Human Rights, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. The organization is particularly popular among Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, though it also has a following in the West Bank, and, to a lesser extent, in other Middle Eastern countries and throughout the Palestinian diaspora, including within Israel. The movement's popularity stems from its provision of welfare and social services to the Palestinian poor and its paramilitary activities, as well as from the perceived corruption of the Fatah party. Outside the Arab world, Hamas is primarily known for its suicide bombings against civilians in busy urban areas in Israel. It is notorious for its generous payments to the families of suicide bombers on one hand while in an attempt to change its image in the eyes of the west Hamas is also paying a media consultant $180,000 (£100,000) to persuade Europeans and Americans that it is not a group of religious fanatics who relish suicide bombings and hate Jews [3].

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

what, you hate christians now too?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No no no!

 

I'm betting that very few "pali" Christians voted for Hamas!

[Balta1701]

Sorry, I just assumd there were more issues than just one. I assume then, in Israeli elections, Palestinians are the only issue as well?

Oh wait, could it be they chose Hamas over corruption? Maybe they got tired of the corruption? Nope, the only chance it could be is they all want the end of Israel. BTW, do they elect people or is it just Israel Yes/No on the ballot?

Bloomberg

 

Hamas, running for the first time in national elections, vowed to fight corruption and lawlessness in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. While it moderated its stance toward Israel, not mentioning its goal of destroying the Jewish state in its official platform, the movement says it won't give up its arms.

 

Along with its fight against Israel, Hamas has built its popularity over the past two decades by providing health services and social welfare programs that weren't available from the Palestinian Authority and international refugee organizations.

It's not just corruption...Hamas has actually in many cases done a lot more to help build people's lives than the other authorities there.

 

I think that the most interesting question left is going to be what this does to Israel's elections later this year...and whether or not Netanyahu can get a major boost from it. If he can...then a lot of things are probably going to blow up, IMO.

[Rex Kickass]

Hamas in power is going to be good for the region in the long term. Short term, there might be more strife. Palestinian Authority has been riddled with corruption and many of the basic services that Palestinians have been receiving actually are coming from Hamas. The Palestinian public, has been in my mind, between a rock and a hard place for quite some time. On the one hand, they have an oppressive foreign government ruling over their daily lives and creating a difficult life where their economy is unable to act normally and travel within the small zone they are allowed is hampered constantly by checkpoints, detours and giant concrete walls. On the other hand, they have an "authority" which is supposed to govern everyday life in their zone which has seen itself as primarily more in favor of lining their own pockets than providing basic social services, education or jobs to its population. Where do they have left to turn? Well, Hamas.

 

Although the organization is involved in terror activities, they are also against palestinian corruption - or at least appear to be - and do provide some social services already in the region, and to many levels, in a better manner than the PA ever did. It also has the benefit of being seen as the main reason that Israel finally got out of Lebanon and the Palestinian population might see them as a possible way to finally establish the statehood that they have been asking for since the UN and Israel were founded in the 1940s.

 

Although Hamas does advocate violence, which is admittedly a problem, without moderation of their policies and objectives, they will find it impossible to do the things that they need to maintain the power that they have sought. My guess is that they will be able to acheive a good amount of their aims regarding Palestinian statehood and will be able to settle for them. Once Hamas starts realizing the responsibilities of administrating their territories, they will not be able to keep their full on idealism in focus. They are a democratically elected force, and they realize that their support and power is predicated upon popular support. Without it Hamas would die - because it is, in its essence, a popular uprising.

 

Finally Hamas taking control is a great thing for the region because it shows the democratization of the region taking hold. Unfortunately for the U.S. who honestly never really cared about that. Because the sentiments that win elections in the Middle East currently, aren't the same sentiments that represent American interests.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

Hamas in power is going to be good for the region in the long term. Short term, there might be more strife. Palestinian Authority has been riddled with corruption and many of the basic services that Palestinians have been receiving actually are coming from Hamas. The Palestinian public, has been in my mind, between a rock and a hard place for quite some time.  On the one hand, they have an oppressive foreign government ruling over their daily lives and creating a difficult life where their economy is unable to act normally and travel within the small zone they are allowed is hampered constantly by checkpoints, detours and giant concrete walls. On the other hand, they have an "authority" which is supposed to govern everyday life in their zone which has seen itself as primarily more in favor of lining their own pockets than providing basic social services, education or jobs to its population. Where do they have left to turn? Well, Hamas.

 

Although the organization is involved in terror activities, they are also against palestinian corruption - or at least appear to be - and do provide some social services already in the region, and to many levels, in a better manner than the PA ever did. It also has the benefit of being seen as the main reason that Israel finally got out of Lebanon and the Palestinian population might see them as a possible way to finally establish the statehood that they have been asking for since the UN and Israel were founded in the 1940s.

 

Although Hamas does advocate violence, which is admittedly a problem, without moderation of their policies and objectives, they will find it impossible to do the things that they need to maintain the power that they have sought. My guess is that they will be able to acheive a good amount of their aims regarding Palestinian statehood and will be able to settle for them. Once Hamas starts realizing the responsibilities of administrating their territories, they will not be able to keep their full on idealism in focus. They are a democratically elected force, and they realize that their support and power is predicated upon popular support. Without it Hamas would die - because it is, in its essence, a popular uprising.

 

Finally Hamas taking control is a great thing for the region because it shows the democratization of the region taking hold. Unfortunately for the U.S. who honestly never really cared about that. Because the sentiments that win elections in the Middle East currently, aren't the same sentiments that represent American interests.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You make some interesting points, Rex.

 

However, I do take issue with this paragraph...On the one hand, they have an oppressive foreign government ruling over their daily lives and creating a difficult life where their economy is unable to act normally and travel within the small zone they are allowed is hampered constantly by checkpoints, detours and giant concrete walls.

 

1. "Palestinians" live within the borders of Israel, thus, they are not ruled by a "foreign" government.

 

2. Arabs in general have mores rights under Israeli rule than they do under the rule of ANY Muslim Country.

 

3. There would not be a need for checkpoints and/or a Security Fence if the "palestinians" would stop trying to kill Israelis.

[Balta1701]

You make some interesting points, Rex.

 

However, I do take issue with this paragraph...On the one hand, they have an oppressive foreign government ruling over their daily lives and creating a difficult life where their economy is unable to act normally and travel within the small zone they are allowed is hampered constantly by checkpoints, detours and giant concrete walls.

 

1. "Palestinians" live within the borders of Israel, thus, they are not ruled by a "foreign" government.

 

2. Arabs in general have mores rights under Israeli rule than they do under the rule of ANY Muslim Country.

 

3. There would not be a need for checkpoints and/or a Security Fence if the "palestinians" would stop trying to kill Israelis.

I'm not sure I agree with either side, so I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment:

 

1. Yes, they live "Within" the borders of Israel...borders which were created after Israel conquered them in an invasion. Almost every nation I know about has recognized in some fashion that Israel is not going to be able to continue occupying that territory until the end of time.

 

3. There would be a vastly lower amount of Palestinians trying to kill Israelis if the Israelis were to stop trying to build settlements on land within the occupied territories.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

A pretty sane argument from fark.com:

 

Judging from exit polls, it appears Hamas has won a significant percentage of the vote in Wednesday's Palestinian legislative elections.

 

While it's unclear what this will mean for Palestinians or Israelis, here are a few preliminary observations (based on the hopeful assumption that the PA will not slide into autocracy or total chaos):

 

--It would be a mistake to assume everyone who voted for Hamas was voting primarily for the destruction of Israel. Palestinians have much more immediate concerns-- corruption in the Palestinian Authority, failure of the PA to provide basic services and security, massive unemployment, etc. When voters are unhappy with the status quo, they tend to vote for the outsiders who promise reform. And Hamas wisely emphasized reform more than it did elimination of the Zionist entity.

 

--The outcome of the election is a reminder of Senator John McCain's point: if we in the West truly believe in electoral democracy, we have to accept that sometimes elections will produce governments we don't particularly like.

 

--If Hamas does become part of the PA government, it will no longer have the luxury of being an outside critic. It will have to show it can help make real and positive changes in people's lives. Otherwise it will then become one of the rascals to be thrown out in the next election.

 

--I have no doubt Hamas leaders still believe every word they've said about throwing the Jews out of the whole of Palestine. But I think Israel needs to pay attention to deeds as well words, and not necessarily to assume the worst. It would be a mistake to refuse to deal with the PA on any matter simply because of Hamas's presence in the government. The question is: what happens now? If there is a sharp increase in attacks against Israelis, Israel will know how to respond. If there is a decrease or end of attacks, that's to be welcomed, and Israel should also respond in kind. If the status quo more or less continues, that will hardly be the sort of progress Palestinians are hoping for-- and presumably Hamas will have to pay a political price for that.

 

--

They could learn a thing or two from Sinn Fein -- that political power could give them a voice that they only previously had through accessorizing with dynamite. Like Sinn Fein, they may try both for a while but, as Sinn Fein did, they'll find political power/voice that way is more effective.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

A pretty sane argument from fark.com:

 

Judging from exit polls, it appears Hamas has won a significant percentage of the vote in Wednesday's Palestinian legislative elections.

 

While it's unclear what this will mean for Palestinians or Israelis, here are a few preliminary observations (based on the hopeful assumption that the PA will not slide into autocracy or total chaos):

 

--It would be a mistake to assume everyone who voted for Hamas was voting primarily for the destruction of Israel. Palestinians have much more immediate concerns-- corruption in the Palestinian Authority, failure of the PA to provide basic services and security, massive unemployment, etc. When voters are unhappy with the status quo, they tend to vote for the outsiders who promise reform. And Hamas wisely emphasized reform more than it did elimination of the Zionist entity.

 

--The outcome of the election is a reminder of Senator John McCain's point: if we in the West truly believe in electoral democracy, we have to accept that sometimes elections will produce governments we don't particularly like.

 

--If Hamas does become part of the PA government, it will no longer have the luxury of being an outside critic. It will have to show it can help make real and positive changes in people's lives. Otherwise it will then become one of the rascals to be thrown out in the next election.

 

--I have no doubt Hamas leaders still believe every word they've said about throwing the Jews out of the whole of Palestine. But I think Israel needs to pay attention to deeds as well words, and not necessarily to assume the worst. It would be a mistake to refuse to deal with the PA on any matter simply because of Hamas's presence in the government. The question is: what happens now? If there is a sharp increase in attacks against Israelis, Israel will know how to respond. If there is a decrease or end of attacks, that's to be welcomed, and Israel should also respond in kind. If the status quo more or less continues, that will hardly be the sort of progress Palestinians are hoping for-- and presumably Hamas will have to pay a political price for that.

 

--

They could learn a thing or two from Sinn Fein -- that political power could give them a voice that they only previously had through accessorizing with dynamite.  Like Sinn Fein, they may try both for a while but, as Sinn Fein did, they'll find political power/voice that way is more effective.

 

 

I really hope you're right. Im not optimistic though.

[Texsox]

I really hope you're right.  Im not optimistic though.

 

I'm not any more or less optimistic than before. What I do know is the present path wasn't working. I don't believe Israel is under any more of a threat than they already were. In reality, is there any country on earth that has worse neighbors than Israel (and vice versa depending on your POV).

[kevin57]

It should be interesting to see if Hamas starts acting like a political party rather than a terrorist organization. It is in their best interests to start making a transformation, but lots of people don't do what's in their best interests.

 

I think that Hamas won at least in part because of the total corruption of the Fatah party. The people in the territories live in dire poverty while hundreds of millions pour in from all over the world. Where has all that money been going? The people sent a message to the corrupt ruling party. Also, Hamas has done a good deal of humanitarian work for the people. This is in no way to praise their beliefs and attitudes concerning Israel. Just an interesting fact.

 

In any case, demoncracy occurred in yet another Mideast place. YEA! Whatever Hamas may do, they'll have to be accountable to the people. Most of the Palestinians may want Israelis in the sea, but they want bread on their tables, a roof over their heads, a good school for their kids, and a decent street to a decent job a lot more than some political ideology.

[Texsox]

In any case, demoncracy occurred in yet another Mideast place.  YEA!  Whatever Hamas may do, they'll have to be accountable to the people.  Most of the Palestinians may want Israelis in the sea, but they want bread on their tables, a roof over their heads, a good school for their kids, and a decent street to a decent job a lot more than some political ideology.

I believe most people are more concerned about beans and beds than ideology.

[FlaSoxxJim]

In any case, demoncracy occurred in yet another Mideast place.  YEA!  Whatever Hamas may do, they'll have to be accountable to the people.  Most of the Palestinians may want Israelis in the sea, but they want bread on their tables, a roof over their heads, a good school for their kids, and a decent street to a decent job a lot more than some political ideology.

 

Yep. And that brings us back to the McCain quote that LCR posted above. We say we want electoral democracy in these countries, so we have to be prepared to live with the will of the people.

 

(btw, I'll assume "demoncracy" was a typo and not a Freudian slip. )

[kevin57]

(btw, I'll assume "demoncracy" was a typo and not a Freudian slip. )

 

LOL! Yup, a typo...or was it?

 

Even if these counties elect "wacos" (or what we would consider wacos), eventually, leaders who strive for the development of their people in the midst of a broader world will prevail. There's too much TV, internet, media in general for billions of people in countries 'round the world not to say, "Hey, if they have all this neat stuff in the U.S.A. (and Europe and Japan...), why the hell not here?"

[kapkomet]

So of course, the leader of Iran speaks out and says that the Hamas victory is a "mandate to continue terrorism activities against Isreal".

 

I'm not surprised.

 

Hmmm, look at that nice trail of gas left in the sand. Does anyone have a match? Oh wait, I just fou.... BOOM!

[YASNY]

I'm not sure I agree with either side, so I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment:

 

1.  Yes, they live "Within" the borders of Israel...borders which were created after Israel conquered them in an invasion.  Almost every nation I know about has recognized in some fashion that Israel is not going to be able to continue occupying that territory until the end of time.

 

3.  There would be a vastly lower amount of Palestinians trying to kill Israelis if the Israelis were to stop trying to build settlements on land within the occupied territories.

 

So, we should give California, Texas, New Mexico and Arizona back to Mexico?

[Rex Kickass]

So, we should give California, Texas, New Mexico and Arizona back to Mexico?

 

We incorporated California, Texas, New Mexico and Arizona into our country. Israel has no such plans to do so with West Bank or Gaza. So its a different argument.