JUGGERNAUT Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Am I the only one who got a little spooked by the articles written today? Not so much what Frank said because I agree with him. All things considered if you have a choice between choosing a healthy Frank or a healthy Thome you're picking Frank. But some of these other articles had me going .. "say it ain't so!" Is it really true that GM's around the league were expecting Thome's body to break down? Is this really why the Cubs passed on the discount he was offering them? Are we looking at the potential of a Gonzo when it comes to Thome's back problems? From a risk assessment standpoint is Thome at $22M/3yr a safer investment than say a combination of Thomas & White/Piazza/<enter slugger here> for roughly that same $? In that scenario Thomas remains with the White Sox in much the same role as 2005. What happens if Thome goes on the DL? Who is going to fill that role? Borchy? Sosa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Can you post a link to these Thome excerpts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swivelhips Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I kinda got that same feeling. We could have given Thomas a pittance compared to what we gave Thome, kept Rowand, and had a bunch of extra dough to spend elsewhere. I say that without knowing exactly what the health of each player is (and understanding that hindsight is 20/20), but still, the point is that all this being equal health-wise, you'd rather have a Thomas than a Thome;especially when considering what Thomas' contract went for. I quess the question must be asked, whos the bigger health risk? and to follow up, whos contract $'s was worth that risk? What do you all think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Both guys are a risk....but Frank has a longer and much more "spooky" injury history that Thome does. Also, Thome is a lefty and MUCH better in the clubhouse, as well as closer to 100 percent than Frank is (regardless of what Frank says). I am not concerned at all, other than making sure Thome is 100 percent come early April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I do believe Gload is your insurance policy for Thome. How dare you even mention Sosa's name, the Nats wouldn't give him up for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 "i'm baaaaack" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam G Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Swivelhips @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 06:34 PM) I quess the question must be asked, whos the bigger health risk? Clearly that's Thomas. He's only played "full seasons" in two of the last five, he's 38 years old, and while he can still hit the long ball, his average nose dived after the 2000 season and has shown no signs of coming back. Thome had serious injury problems last year and last year alone, so he's shown much more durability throughout his career than Thomas has, and that's not even mentioning the fact that he's three years younger as well. And let's not forget that Thome is a lefty who has thrived at the Cell throughout his career. A lot of us (myself included) would like to think that Thomas is a still reliable .320/35/120 guy, but he's clearly not. Furthermore, Thome is capable of spelling Konerko at first from time to time while Thomas is not. Kenny made the right decision. and to follow up, whos contract $'s was worth that risk? What do you all think? Yes, I do think it's worth the risk. $7 m/year over 3 years for a guy of Thome's ability is cheap. Thomas is cheaper, but there's a reason why all of baseball wasnt chasing him this offseason. Edited January 28, 2006 by Adam G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxmurph Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Also we have to remember that Thome's body will take less punishment as a DH as opposed to being a full time 1B. I think the chances of Thome having a injury riddled season are much less than Big Franks. It seemed that in the last few years everytime Frank ran he hurt himself. He was one of my favorites and I hope he has a good season in Oakland, gets # 500, retires and goes into the H.O.F. wearing a Sox uniform. That being said the Sox are a better offensive team this year than last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Don't forget the main reason we acquired Jim Thome in the 1st place was to get a big LH power bat in the middle of this lineup. Now remember we just weren't very good hitting against RHP at all last season. I think you have to remember through all of this as well, Thome's more likely to come back and produce from his type of injury, then Thomas will be. And remember, Thomas coming back from a major injury has never really put up a good season the year after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxmurph @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 07:12 PM) Also we have to remember that Thome's body will take less punishment as a DH as opposed to being a full time 1B. I think the chances of Thome having a injury riddled season are much less than Big Franks. It seemed that in the last few years everytime Frank ran he hurt himself. He was one of my favorites and I hope he has a good season in Oakland, gets # 500, retires and goes into the H.O.F. wearing a Sox uniform. That being said the Sox are a better offensive team this year than last. Will Jim Thome + Brian Anderson hit 48 home runs next year combined? Thats what Rowand + Everett + Thomas contributed last season. Its not impossible, Anderson could be in the teens and should Thome stay healthy he figures to be around 40+. If Jim gets hurt again I don't know what they will do, Ross Gload? Hell of a risk for a defending Champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 QUOTE(TLAK @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 07:55 PM) Will Jim Thome + Brian Anderson hit 48 home runs next year combined? Thats what Rowand + Everett + Thomas contributed last season. Its not impossible, Anderson could be in the teens and should Thome stay healthy he figures to be around 40+. If Jim gets hurt again I don't know what they will do, Ross Gload? Hell of a risk for a defending Champion. Not as much of a risk as bringing back a broken down Frank. And as long as Thome is healthy, he's going to hit 35 or so and BA should be good for 15 to 20, which equals a slight improvement. Also, as terrible as people seem to think it is, fact is BA will be an improvement over Crash in the OF, has better speed, and really more talent period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) Will Jim Thome + Brian Anderson hit 48 home runs next year combined? Thats what Rowand + Everett + Thomas contributed last season. Its not impossible, Anderson could be in the teens and should Thome stay healthy he figures to be around 40+. If Jim gets hurt again I don't know what they will do, Ross Gload? Hell of a risk for a defending Champion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't you get that Thomas + Rowand would have been an even bigger risk to hit 48 homeruns in 2006? Thomas could not stay healthy for two straight seasons. And we weren't going to bring back Everett at $5 million, which was his 2006 option the Sox would have had to pick up. Outside of the homeruns and RBI's, Everett's offense was horrible. Did you miss him swinging at trash in the dirt every game? The guy ended the season with a .745 OPS. That's garbage from a DH. 48 homers? Thome = 33+ easily (Dye hit 31 HR's last season. How many do you think Thome will hit?) Anderson = ~15, if not more (Phil Rogers predicts 17 homers for Anderson) Q: Scotty G from Griffith, Indiana asks: Realistically, what kind of production can we expect from Brian Anderson at the plate this season? A: Phil Rogers: As a guessing man, I like .273-17-75. Pretty darn good at the bottom of the lineup. Edited January 28, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABearSoX Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jan 28, 2006 -> 12:43 AM) "i'm baaaaack" who the hell is that guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 If you happen to believe what MLB players say, Paul Konerko is not a member of the Chicago White Sox if Jim Thome isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 If you happen to believe what MLB players say, Paul Konerko is not a member of the Chicago White Sox if Jim Thome isn't. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Konerko himself said that the Thome acquisition was a huge reason that he decided to return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 08:04 PM) Outside of the homeruns and RBI's, Everett's offense was horrible. Huh? He hit .251 with 23 HR and 87 RBI (490 AB). Would you prefer a 3/5 hitter with a .300 with 5 HR 40 RBI? Everett also hit .273 in the ALDS, .250 in the ALCA and .444 in the WS, 0 HR 3 RBI tot. Straight up he is certainly not as good as a healthy Jim Thome but he's not chopped liver either. I still feel the 2005 mix of CF/DH was stronger than the 2006 mix projects to be when injury risk is accounted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABearSoX Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Remember that Dye was a huge injury risk coming into this season....lets just hope the training staff does as good of a job as they did on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 QUOTE(TLAK @ Jan 28, 2006 -> 01:38 PM) Huh? He hit .251 with 23 HR and 87 RBI (490 AB). Would you prefer a 3/5 hitter with a .300 with 5 HR 40 RBI? Everett also hit .273 in the ALDS, .250 in the ALCA and .444 in the WS, 0 HR 3 RBI tot. Straight up he is certainly not as good as a healthy Jim Thome but he's not chopped liver either. I still feel the 2005 mix of CF/DH was stronger than the 2006 mix projects to be when injury risk is accounted for. In the 2nd half of 2005, Everett had splits of .228/.305/.386. Taking that into consideration, I don't think he could come close to producing what he did in 2005 for 2006. I believe Anderson will definitely produce what Rowand did in 2006, remember Rowand only had 13 HR's in 2005. Thome should outproduce Everett if he remains healthy. Remember if we kept Frank for the DH and kept Rowand, I'd say there's a much greater risk with Frank trying to come back from his injury, when he's never had a good season coming back from one before. Not to mention, we'd be much weaker against RHP without Thome as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 QUOTE(DABearSoX @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 08:40 PM) Remember that Dye was a huge injury risk coming into this season....lets just hope the training staff does as good of a job as they did on him. Excellent point. Good things do happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 None of this of course takes into account the massively higher OBP we'll be sticking in front of Konerko...which may very well give PK a shot at the MVP if he avoids a prolongued slump and hits with RISP. Put Thome in front of PK instead of Everett and Paulie probably drives in 20+ more runs last year. I still think up and down the lineup we're a stronger team. Thomas's numbers inflate our DH home run and RBI totals without hurting the total DH batting average that much since he wasn't there for long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 08:44 PM) In the 2nd half of 2005, Everett had splits of .228/.305/.386. Taking that into consideration, I don't think he could come close to producing what he did in 2005 for 2006. I believe Anderson will definitely produce what Rowand did in 2006, remember Rowand only had 13 HR's in 2005. Thome should outproduce Everett if he remains healthy. Remember if we kept Frank for the DH and kept Rowand, I'd say there's a much greater risk with Frank trying to come back from his injury, when he's never had a good season coming back from one before. Not to mention, we'd be much weaker against RHP without Thome as well. And also Everett was so poor in September that a few weeks before the playoffs while still fighting for our spot we were playing musical 3 hole chairs. Konerko then Dye at the very end of the year. Why did we do this? Because Everett who was our 3 hole hitter wasnt producing and our offense went cold again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Huh? He hit .251 with 23 HR and 87 RBI (490 AB). Would you prefer a 3/5 hitter with a .300 with 5 HR 40 RBI? Everett also hit .273 in the ALDS, .250 in the ALCA and .444 in the WS, 0 HR 3 RBI tot. Straight up he is certainly not as good as a healthy Jim Thome but he's not chopped liver either. I still feel the 2005 mix of CF/DH was stronger than the 2006 mix projects to be when injury risk is accounted for. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I expect 23 HR's and 87 RBI's from a DH. I also expect a much better line than .251 AVG / .311 OBP / .435 SLG / .745 OPS. That's horrid. A healthy Thome will destroy that line and he's worth the risk. Everett at $5 million dollars is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 08:44 PM) In the 2nd half of 2005, Everett had splits of .228/.305/.386. Taking that into consideration, I don't think he could come close to producing what he did in 2005 for 2006. I believe Anderson will definitely produce what Rowand did in 2006, remember Rowand only had 13 HR's in 2005. Thome should outproduce Everett if he remains healthy. Remember if we kept Frank for the DH and kept Rowand, I'd say there's a much greater risk with Frank trying to come back from his injury, when he's never had a good season coming back from one before. Not to mention, we'd be much weaker against RHP without Thome as well. Your reasoning is good but I object to your premise. You say Thome will out-produce Everett (which I buy) and later, Thome will out-produce Thomas (which I only buy if Thomas gets hurt). My premise is that Rowand + Everett + (Thomas / Injury probability) together is a lesser risk than Anderson + (Thome / Injury probability). And I think this even though Thomas' injury probabilty certainly seems higher than Thome's. The only way the equation works for the White Sox is a healthy Jim Thome. KW is taking a hell of a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 a .251/.311 split from your DH SUCKS. It SUCKS.....Thome will blow that away if healthy, not even close. Huge upgrade there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin57 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Do we know for sure that Thome will be healthier than Thomas? No. At the same time, if you were in Las Vegas and putting your hard-earned $$$ on the table, would you bet that Thome or Thomas will play more games in 2006? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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