Did the Thome coverage spook you?

[JUGGERNAUT]

No one is suggesting Frank is a saint. But his play has never suggested anything but a player who rises to the occasion with run scoring & producing situations. He has exhibited anything but selfish play on the field.

 

Outside of the field of play Thomas' has an ego bigger than most athletes. That leads him to say & do things where he is clearly putting his own self-interests ahead of the team. The HOF is full of guys like that.

 

What amazes me about all of this is how Thomas' words shake up the media. As off as this sounds, It might have been the best gift he could have delivered to the White Sox. Both Kenny & Ozzie were looking for something that would knock the chip off the organization's shoudlers. Thomas has delivered that.

 

Suddenly in newspapers across the country associated with Thomas' comments are columns of the White Sox being vulnerable. Apparently the media believes the White Sox will sink of swim with the Thome for Rowand trade. They don't have the confidence that KW has in Anderson to be anything close to the spectacular play man that Rowand was. They feel the loss of Rowand will weaken the pitching staff significantly. They don't even mention whether Thome's offense will make up the difference.

 

What's overshadowed in all this is that an even uglier situation is brewing in Houston with Jeff Bagwell. What some consider the greatest player the Astros have ever produced might very well find himself being pushed out of the organization. They intend to file the insurance claim despite Bagwell's intention of going to ST. The Thomas split from the White Sox pales in comparison with that.

[Adam G]

No one is suggesting Frank is a saint.  But his play has never suggested anything but a player who rises to the occasion with run scoring & producing situations.  He has exhibited anything but selfish play on the field.

One of the writers (forget who, it was a while ago) said he was totally obsessed with his personal statistics. The implication was that while his efforts helped the team, he was really motivated to bum his own numbers.

[Pants Rowland]

Thanks for these reminders of the bad side of FT.  I've been struck by the extremes on Frank Thomas.  On the one hand, there were those (in the media many, among die-hards few) who despised Frank.  On the other hand, there are many die-hards for whom criticizing Frank Thomas is blasphemy.  The truth about this man lies somewhere in-between.

 

I hope I did not come across as a Frank hater. I sometimes think maybe I just read about him in the Tribune too much. I think you are right that Frank is somewhere between hero and pariah but at this point in his career, Frank just seems out of line to think he is entitled to anything more than he has already received from the White Sox. I also agree with Juggernaut that this could be the story that unifies the White Sox into thinking they have something to prove all over again. Let's just hope Thome, Anderson, Vazquez and the back end of the bullpen step up to the level we desire.

[winninguglyin83]

I love Frank Thomas. Have from the moment he arrived with the Sox in 1990.

 

He started hitting then and rarely stopped. Certainly the best Sox offensive player of all time. We'll probably not have a player like him for a long, long time.

 

But it was time for him to go.

 

He's been antagnostic toward management for several years -- even after they kept him around when they could have invoked the diminished skills part of his contract.

 

He's struggled to stay healthy for several years, carries too much weight and has been an irritant to several teammates. He's a station to station baseerunner, who became home run obsessed last year.

 

We won the World Series in spite of Frank Thomas, not because of him. He should have been grateful the other guys got him a ring and that management let him throw out the first ball.

 

From all reports, Thome should be excellent in the clubhouse. He played winning baseball in Cleveland. He WANTS to be with the White Sox. He gets along with Konerko. He has hit well in the Cell.

 

He might start slowly because of the injury, but I think he'll be just fine when the warm weather arrives.

 

Props to Williams and Reinsdorf for bringing him aboard.

[JUGGERNAUT]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports...ce/3621494.html

Sounds similar to what I wrote about Frank. Him & Bagwell. To be or not to be .. lifers. Frank's out & it looks like Bagwell is next.

 

I forgot about Rob Mackowiak. I think Kenny had this deal pegged the whole time. He's accomplished too much & is being paid too well to simply be a bench warmer. It is clear that Kenny had grown cold on Everett & was intend on replacing his ability to be a lefty bat. Mack is the insurance against Thome. If Kong had not signed I believe the White Sox would have retained Thomas. But with both Kong & Thome & Mack expected to spell both there is just no room for Thomas.

 

LH bats used to be rare on the White Sox. Now we have an abundance:

AJP, SPods, Jim Thome, Rob Mack, Ross Gload, & yes Borchy.

 

Borchy will turn 28 this year. It's not common for players to make it to the big leagues after they hit that age but Borchy's raw talent & lack of baseball experience prior to being drafted makes him an exception.

 

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/new..._milb&fext=.jsp

http://minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/st...id=milb&cid=494

Not only did he break the Knight's all-time hit record but he led the team in TB. For a power LH bat off the bench Joe fit's the bill. He'll never hit much for average but you can't be anything but encouraged by his 12AB with the White Sox in 2005.

[heirdog]

  who the hell is that guy?

 

 

I believe that is Schneider from "One Day at a Time."

 

Edited January 30, 2006 by heirdog

[JUGGERNAUT]

Being both a White Sox fan & Astros fan ( I've spent several yrs of my life living in that hotbed city ) both of these famed & popular stars represent sad stories.

 

Astros have indeed filed the insurance claim on Bagwell. Doctors have stated hist shoudler was still damaged to the degree the team could not expect a productive season from him.

 

Yet Bagwell intends to show up at ST & compete for a job.

 

Bagwell have spent all of his 15 ML seasons with the Astro's & might be the franchise's most popular player over that time.

 

Recently Bagwell was quoted as saying the situation has caused a rift that may be beyond repair.

 

Both Bagwell & Frank will be HOF candidates when they do decide to retire.

But this is not what you would have hoped for either of them. Bagwell has always been considered the consumate team player. Always said & did the right thing with the press & was for the most part a darling of the media. It sort of puts Frank's comments in perspective.

 

Both of them love the game too much to admit it might be time to say goodbye to it. I heard Frank say 5 more yrs. He's not just posturing with that notion. He really believes it.

 

Against All Odds is the perfect theme song for both.

[Chisoxfn]

Am I the only one who got a little spooked by the articles written today?  Not so much what Frank said because I agree with him.  All things considered if you have a choice between choosing a healthy Frank or a healthy Thome you're picking Frank.

 

But some of these other articles had me going .. "say it ain't so!"

 

Is it really true that GM's around the league were expecting Thome's body to break down?  Is this really why the Cubs passed on the discount he was offering them?  Are we looking at the potential of a Gonzo when it comes to Thome's back problems?

 

From a risk assessment standpoint is Thome at $22M/3yr a safer investment than say a combination of Thomas & White/Piazza/ for roughly that same $?  In that scenario Thomas remains with the White Sox in much the same role as 2005.

 

What happens if Thome goes on the DL?  Who is going to fill that role?  Borchy?  Sosa?

I'm taking the healthy Thome, simply because even when healthy your not getting the Frank of old. I'd definately take the numbers Thome put up two years ago. I'm hoping we get it, but I'm still very cautious about Thome. He's old and coming off an elbow injury, plus he has the nagging back issue.

[Chisoxfn]

I do believe Gload is your insurance policy for Thome.

 

How dare you even mention Sosa's name, the Nats wouldn't give him up for anything.

If Thome were to go down for an extended period of time (or something that was career threatening) I think you'd see the Sox try to plug in someone in-house, but assuming the thing happened early enough in the season, if that didn't work I'm fairly confident that Kenny would go out and try to find someone and realize the move didn't work (thats if its a bad injury).

 

Plus everything depends on where the team sits at the time. Lots of things can happen but we have a few potential in house guys if Thome goes down (they won't be great) but they should be able to do a semi similar job to what Carl did (and if that doesn't work you can find a mediocre DH type bat or better via the trade market).

 

As long as our pitching staff stays healthy and produces (which is an if) I'm confident we'll be back in the playoffs. How far will they go, who knows, it all depends on who gets hot at the right time.

 

That said I think Minny and Cleveland are two of the better teams in all of baseball. I expect two teams in our division to make the playoffs.

[Rowand44]

That said I think Minny and Cleveland are two of the better teams in all of baseball.  I expect two teams in our division to make the playoffs.

Us 3 plus the A's are the 4 teams in baseball by a fairly wide margin imo.

[Chisoxfn]

Please, stop with the Everett talk.  He was not a reasonable option at that price.  The fact is his slide more than anything else is what pushed Thomas back into the lineup when his ankle was only 70% healed.  If Frank hadn't come back the White Sox likely lose the division to the Tribe & miss out on the wild card as well.  Ozzie needs to face that reality & acknowledge it.  His 40 ab comment was poorly thought out.

 

Both Kenny & JR dropped the ball in their handling of Frank at the very end.  I don't blame Kenny for stringing Thomas along til the day they signed Kong because the fact is Thomas remained an option until Kong signed.  But both of them should have sought Thomas out (they had the opportunity at the winter meetings) & dealt with Thomas personally.  Explain to him how it played out & express their regret they weren't able to find a solution that included him.

 

Thomas is not just any other player.  His stature in the league is such that he deserved special consideration.  If Kenny or JR want to attempt to mend the fences they should both seek Thomas out now & convince him to show up at the White House gathering.  They need to lower the chip on their shoulders for a minute & remind themselves & Thomas that the White Sox might not have been World Champions if not for Thomas re-igniting the offense when they needed it most.

Frank dropped the ball for being such a prick during his tenure with the Sox. I realize he's not as bad as some people think, but he isn't this great guy in the clubhouse either.

 

Note: I'm not knocking Frank the person, from the couple times I've met him he seems like a nice enough guy, doesn't mean he's a great guy in the clubhouse. Fact of the matter is he tends to lean more on the selfish side.

[JUGGERNAUT]

if Frank had been the highest paid player in the game during his career with the White Sox do you think he would have attracted all that bad publicity? I don't. I think it stems not from his being selfish but rather being so full of himself (pride). Like I said earlier the HOF has plenty of guys just like him in that regards.

 

The fact remains that Franks production vs cost during his time with the White Sox was probably the best of any player that played in the game during that time. That's why I have a hard time calling Frank selfish. Yes, he did b**** & moan a lot but in the end he signed reasonable contracts that helped the team more than it hurt it.

[JUGGERNAUT]

If Thome goes down my guess is Mak would become the starting 1B while Kenny tries to work a trade. I think Borchy will prove Gload expendable in ST.

 

The worst part of Thome going down is the $22M. That will hurt like the famous $20M deal for that old cubs pitcher. It represented JR's longest contract for a pitcher since FA.

Edited February 3, 2006 by JUGGERNAUT

[YASNY]

if Frank had been the highest paid player in the game during his career with the White Sox do you think he would have attracted all that bad publicity?  I don't.  I think it stems not from his being selfish but rather being so full of himself (pride).  Like I said earlier the HOF has plenty of guys just like him in that regards.

 

The fact remains that Franks production vs cost during his time with the White Sox was probably the best of any player that played in the game during that time.  That's why I have a hard time calling Frank selfish.  Yes, he did b**** & moan a lot but in the end he signed reasonable contracts that helped the team more than it hurt it.

 

If Frank didn't have that pride, he wouldn't have been Frank. It was in integral part of his make up that helped drive him to excel. It made have been annoying at times, but it was a big part of what made Frank so great.