A Philly-Mets fight for Contreras?

[Frank the Tank 35]

I dont think a deal of that magnitude gets made, but that is very interesting to me, and makes sense. Abreu is Abreu, and Floyd can take over the role McCarthy has right now, and I wouldnt have much of a problem with that. We would still need 1 more arm for the pen.

 

Well Urbina should get out of jail one of these days...

 

 

 

 

 

the sad part is I don't know if that should be in green or not.

[aboz56]

Let's see, let's trade the World Series MVP.

 

Wait, that'd be really, really stupid.

 

No way Kenny trades a winning player like Jermaine Dye.

[SSH2005]

Well Urbina should get out of jail one of these days...

the sad part is I don't know if that should be in green or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With Ozzie as our manager, who knows? Urbina Ozzie.

 

Let's see, let's trade the World Series MVP.

 

Wait, that'd be really, really stupid.

 

No way Kenny trades a winning player like Jermaine Dye.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

World Series MVP or not, Abreu is a better player than Dye.

Edited January 31, 2006 by SSH2005

[Frank the Tank 35]

With Ozzie as our manager, who knows?  Urbina  Ozzie.

 

Yeah, no kidding... I bet Oz would love to have Garcia, Urbina, and Abreu on his team. They're all best buds in Venezuela.

[SSH2005]

Yeah, no kidding... I bet Oz would love to have Garcia, Urbina, and Abreu on his team.  They're all best buds in Venezuela.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The sad thing is that if Urbina really didn't attempt to murder all those people, I'd take him in our bullpen.

 

Podsednik LF

Uribe SS

Abreu RF

Konerko 1B

Thome DH

Iguchi 2B

Pierzynski C

Crede 3B

Anderson CF

 

IMO, that would be one of the best lineups in the entire MLB.

Edited January 31, 2006 by SSH2005

[nitetrain8601]

McCarthy is a better prospect than Gavin Floyd, yet they want him thrown in just to get Gavin. Um, no.

[Flash Tizzle]

I have the impression here that Philadelphia is intent on ridding themselves of Abreu's contract. More than receiving fair value. I suppose the validity of this deal depends on whether Philadelphia considers themselves a strong contender for next year. Or whether they're willing to pay Contreras an extended contract. I find it odd Philadelphia wouldn't try for our outfield prospects or McCarthy alone for Abreu. Maybe they did, and this is where negotiations have led.

 

This move simply seems like Philadelphia is saying to themselves, "Dye is affordable and Contreras can walk next year if he's bad. If not, we can negotiate for an extension. Anyway we go Abreu's large contract is gone."

 

SSH--did you notice anything indicating whether trading Abreu means the option in 2008 is automatically picked up?

[SSH2005]

McCarthy is a better prospect than Gavin Floyd, yet they want him thrown in just to get Gavin. Um, no.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL, I found that part funny.

 

I have the impression here that Philadelphia is intent on ridding themselves of Abreu's contract. More than receiving fair value. I suppose the validity of this deal depends on whether Philadelphia considers themselves a strong contender for next year. Or whether they're willing to pay Contreras an extended contract. I find it odd Philadelphia wouldn't try for our outfield prospects or McCarthy alone for Abreu. Maybe they did, and this is where negotiations have led.

 

This move simply seems like Philadelphia is saying to themselves, "Dye is affordable and Contreras can walk next year if he's bad. If not, we can negotiate for an extension. Anyway we go Abreu's large contract is gone."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. Gillick realizes that the Phillies need more pitching than they need Abreu. And Abreu's contract is blocking them from spending anymore money on starting pitching this offseason and 2007.

 

SSH--did you notice anything indicating whether trading Abreu means the option in 2008 is automatically picked up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, it just looks like $13 million in 2006, $15 million in 2007, and a $16 million team option or a $2 million buyout in 2008...

 

http://www.mlb4u.com/phi.html

Bobby Abreu: 5 years worth 64M , will make in 2003-8.5M plus 3M signing Bonus, in 2004-10M, in 2005-12.5 and in 2006-13M, in 2007-15M, and in 2008- Team Option worth 16M ;or 2M Buyout- + Salary Can increase 275K the next year for MVP 1st place finish or 150K 2nd place in voting or 100K for 3rd place- + the deal includes Complete NO-TRADE Clause- + BONUSES he has received: 50K in 2004 for Silver Slugger, 50K for 2005 All-Star selection, 75K for 2005 Gold Glove Agent: Peter Greenberg Service Time: 7.165

Edited January 31, 2006 by SSH2005

[G&T]

Agreed, Dye's contract is awesome.  But are you just worried about Abreu's second half numbers or do you think he may have been on the juice?  Just curious.

 

I'd blame the HR Derby. Changed his swing. Happened to PK too.

[Kalapse]

Agreed, Dye's contract is awesome.  But are you just worried about Abreu's second half numbers or do you think he may have been on the juice?  Just curious.

I'm not one to point fingers at players when it comes to steroids unless I have some serious info to back it up so in Abreu's case I'll chalk it up to a down second half. I'm not going to rule out roids but I just think he got real old real fast at the age of 31. Only 6 HRs in the second half from a guy who it 18 in the first is about as suspicious as it gets.

[SSH2005]

I'm not one to point fingers at players when it comes to steroids unless I have some serious info to back it up so in Abreu's case I'll chalk it up to a down second half. I'm not going to rule out roids but I just think he got real old real fast at the age of 31. Only 6 HRs in the second half from a guy who it 18 in the first is about as suspicious as it gets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Roids are definately a possibility. But G&T made a good point about the Homerun Derby. Remember Konerko's 2003 season after he was in the Homerun Derby in 2002? Konerko said that the Derby screwed up his swing.

[GoodAsGould]

Especially in Abreu's case I think he hired a trainer for it and everything and u could tell because he was hitting them out like no other.....Id rather have Tejeda than Floyd but I like this deal..... Im fine keeping Dye/Count but lets just say im not going to shed any tears if we lose those 2.

[YASNY]

I read a couple of pages of that Philly thread and all I can say is ... pass me whatever they're smokin'.

[Dam8610]

The Phillies could send Ryan Madson and Ryan Howard

[Balta1701]

Roids are definately a possibility.  But G&T made a good point about the Homerun Derby.  Remember Konerko's 2003 season after he was in the Homerun Derby in 2002?  Konerko said that the Derby screwed up his swing.

He also supposedly played the last half of 02 with a broken foot, and it hadn't completely healed when 03 started, according to CSN a few weeks ago.

[witesoxfan]

Roids are definately a possibility.  But G&T made a good point about the Homerun Derby.  Remember Konerko's 2003 season after he was in the Homerun Derby in 2002?  Konerko said that the Derby screwed up his swing.

 

Konerko pre-ASB 2002 - .328 20 71 .379/.571/.950

Konerko post-ASB 2002 - .270 7 33 .332/.402/.734

 

Abreu pre-ASB 2005 - .307 18 58 .428/.526/.955

Abreu post-ASB 2005 - .260 6 44 .376/.411/.787

 

Just seeing that scares me enough to not want him anywhere near Chicago, unless it's on the north side.

[G&T]

Konerko pre-ASB 2002 - .328 20 71 .379/.571/.950

Konerko post-ASB 2002 - .270 7 33 .332/.402/.734

 

Abreu pre-ASB 2005 - .307 18 58 .428/.526/.955

Abreu post-ASB 2005 - .260 6 44 .376/.411/.787

 

Just seeing that scares me enough to not want him anywhere near Chicago, unless it's on the north side.

 

Scares me into telling him to avoid the Home Run Derby, but I think he learned his lesson.

[SSH2005]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/01/white_sox_inter.html

White Sox Interested In Abreu

 

Remember that Abreu/Contreras/Dye rumor that was bouncing around last night that couldn't quite graduate from the Unfounded category?  We're a little closer to a foundation about this one tonight.

 

A very solid source close to the Phillies tells me that Kenny Williams and the White Sox "love" Bobby Abreu.  It's the first I've heard that the club is truly interested in the right fielder.  He also mentioned that the Phils would like a pitcher like Jose Contreras.  There is some question as to whether the Phils would need to include Gavin Floyd to make an equitable deal.

 

He said that with the White Sox payroll rising to over $90MM, they can't take on much more.  However, I've heard in the past from my White Sox guy that the Sox would actually take the payroll to $105MM.  What's more, the 2006 salaries of Dye, Contreras, and Abreu are a wash.  The Phils would take on $13MM and the White Sox would do the same.

 

The Sox would have to squeeze a marginal $11MM into their payroll in 2007.  Abreu is owed $17MM for that season (including a $2MM buyout of his '08 option).  But given that the club likely would have exercised Jermaine Dye's affordable $6MM option, it's a marginal $11 mil for '07.

 

This would clearly be a win now move for the Phils, as it would strengthen their team for 2006.  The combination of Contreras and Dye was worth 10.5 wins above replacement players in 2005.  Abreu was worth 6.8 wins.  While he still has potential at age 23, Gavin Floyd can't be counted on for much after posting a 6.16 ERA and 1.61 WHIP in 137 Triple A innings in 2005.

 

Another interesting nugget is the close friendship between Abreu and Ozzie Guillen.  Guillen certainly had some influence on the acquisition and retention of Freddy Garcia.

Is this guy's "solid source close to the Phillies" just Howard Eskin of 610 WIP sports radio in Philadelphia? :headshake

Edited February 1, 2006 by SSH2005

[daa84]

Is this guy's "solid source close to the Phillies" just Howard Eskin of 610 WIP sports radio in Philadelphia?  :headshake

I knwo that site has to be taken with a grain of salt, i just still cant help get excited when i see that

[SSH2005]

Ken Rosenthal's thoughts...

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5289186

The Phillies. New GM Pat Gillick says openly that his team isn't good enough; the question is whether he can improve it by the start of the season. A number of rival executives anticipate Gillick making a splash, but the Phillies' inflexible roster and weak farm system is working against him.

Remaining chips. The list of players who could be moved between now and July 31 includes A's left-hander Barry Zito, White Sox right-hander Jose Contreras and Pirates right-hander Kip Wells. Others who are expendable: Cubs second baseman Todd Walker, Reds outfielder Austin Kearns and Devil Rays shortstop Julio Lugo and D.H. Aubrey Huff.

[DBAHO]

From the prospects side of things, I mentioned Cole Hamels earlier on in the thread. He only pitched in 6 games in 2005 in A and AA due to injury problems, but his ERA has been very good at every stop.

 

The injury bug bites again, this time a back stress fracture.

 

Floyd's 2005 was disturbing at best. 6.16 ERA in AAA, with a 97/66 K/BB ratio in 23 games started. His control has seemed to go belly up over the past couple of years.

 

One of the biggest prospects busts of 2005. Posted 6.16 ERA in Triple-A, and was even worse in the majors. His component ratios have never quite matched his reputation, but a collapse of this magnitude was unexpected even by Floyd skeptics, of which there were not very many. He might mount a Roy Halladay-style comeback, but he might also fall apart totally.

 

But there's no-one else who really jumps out at you from the Phillies system. I would actually want Gio back if we were getting a pitching prospect, and it's not Floyd or Hamels.

[SSH2005]

From the prospects side of things, I mentioned Cole Hamels earlier on in the thread. He only pitched in 6 games in 2005 in A and AA due to injury problems, but his ERA has been very good at every stop.

Floyd's 2005 was disturbing at best. 6.16 ERA in AAA, with a 97/66 K/BB ratio in 23 games started. His control has seemed to go belly up over the past couple of years.

But there's no-one else who really jumps out at you from the Phillies system. I would actually want Gio back if we were getting a pitching prospect, and it's not Floyd or Hamels.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've got to think that the Phillies would trade Gavin Floyd way before they'd ever trade Cole Hamels. This trade rumor could be complete BS but it's probably the Contreras rumor that makes the most sense so far...

 

1.) The salaries of the players involved would be an even swap for 2006. Contreras ($8 million) and Dye ($5 million) will earn a combined $13 million in 2006. Abreu will earn $13 million in 2006.

 

2.) KW would be getting back what he has already said he would require in any trade involving Contreras -- a young starter in Gavin Floyd. McCarthy would enter our rotation as the fifth starter. Gavin Floyd could work out his kinks at Charlotte and possibly be a mid-season addition to the bullpen.

 

3.) Abreu can steal bases and is Venezuelan. Ozzie loves him. 'Nuff said.

 

4.) Dumping Abreu's $15 million salary for 2007 would allow Gillick to either re-sign Contreras after 2006 or go after another top-of-the-rotation starter like Barry Zito via free agency.

Edited February 1, 2006 by SSH2005

[DBAHO]

I've got to think that the Phillies would trade Gavin Floyd way before they'd ever trade Cole Hamels.  This trade rumor could be complete BS but it's probably the Contreras rumor that makes the most sense so far...

 

1.)  The salaries of the players involved would be an even swap for 2006.  Contreras ($8 million) and Dye ($5 million) will earn a combined $13 million in 2006.  Abreu will earn $13 million in 2006.

 

2.)  KW would be getting back what he has already said he would require in any trade involving Contreras -- a young starter in Gavin Floyd.  McCarthy would enter our rotation as the fifth starter.  Gavin Floyd could work out his kinks at Charlotte and possibly be a mid-season addition to the bullpen.

 

3.)  Abreu can steal bases and is Venezuelan.  Ozzie loves him.  'Nuff said.

 

4.)  Dumping Abreu's $15 million salary for 2007 would allow Gillick to either re-sign Contreras after 2006 or go after another top-of-the-rotation starter like Barry Zito via free agency.

What KW has to decide here, is Abreu a $8M better player then Dye, and is he worth giving up both JC and JD for him? Even if we got Floyd, I probably still wouldn't make that deal.

 

JD outproduced Abreu in 2005 in HR's, and his OPS was only .036 less then Abreu's (who was an OBP machine BTW). You have to ask yourself, will Abreu still be able to steal 30 bases over the next few years as he gets older?

 

But then again there's lots of arguments FOR acquiring Abreu. He's a great hitter against righties, had a .303 BA/RISP, 7.5 RC/G and a GPA of .286. Dye wasn't as good against righties, had a .262 BA/RISP, 5.5 RC/G and a GPA of .273.

 

You can see why Gillick would jump at this. He's gets a #1 starter, and won't lose that much production in the OF, and if they're out of contention at the deadline, he can trade Contreras and totally rebuild their weak farm system, and still have plenty of money to make a run at the likes of Zito in the 06-07 off-season.

 

Is there mutual interest from KW's end though?

[SSH2005]

Is there mutual interest from KW's end though?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nobody knows. That's why it's just a rumor. If KW agreed to this trade he would have to be pretty sure of a few things:

 

1.) McCarthy will be able to pitch 200+ innings as our fifth starter.

 

2.) Bajenaru will be able to adequately replace McCarthy in the bullpen.

 

3.) Gavin Floyd or Tim Redding (:puke) will be able to step into the rotation if one of our starters gets hit by the injury bug.

Edited February 1, 2006 by SSH2005

[qwerty]

Only way dye is leaving chicago is via free agency. He is way too affordable and kenny williams knows it. No way he trades for for abreu and his albatross contract + a pitcher that is far from a sure thing in floyd or hamels. I want no part of floyd and hamels especially at this point.

 

I personally think it's bulls*** how everyone thinks we need 6,7,8 major league caliber starting pitchers. At think point i feel if one of our starters goes down for four months kenny williams will be able to pull the trigger for a major league caliber pitcher to replace him ( saying if he did end up trading contreras before the season starts... extremely unlikely).