A Philly-Mets fight for Contreras?

[SSH2005]

Seems to me that Floyd has suffered at every level so far.

 

Also, that would mean that the Sox will definitely need a RP then.

 

With less $$ to work with after adding Abreu's huge contract.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know much about Floyd but I doubt he would have a 2.94 career minor league ERA if he "suffered at every level so far."

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/gavin-floyd.shtml

[Felix]

Seems to me that Floyd has suffered at every level so far.

Where are you coming up with this?

A 2002: 166 IP, 2.77 ERA 1.10 WHIP

A 2003: 138 IP, 3.00 ERA 1.25 WHIP

AA 2004: 119 IP, 2.57 ERA 1.17 WHIP

ML 2004: 28.1 IP, 3.49 ERA 1.45 WHIP

 

He struggled in AAA last year and 2004, and in the majors last year, but past that he's been solid. Thats far from "every level"

[Dick Allen]

I'm not saying this is a great trade for the team, but I think its pretty foolish to judge a player on his first few innings pitching in the majors.

He had a lot of control problems last year in AAA. There are a lot of people down on him. After listening to KW this past weekend, I really don't think there is anything to this, but he would have huge balls to make this trade. Team wins its first championship in 88 years and trade your playoff #1 starter and WS MVP both in the same trade. Floyd would be coming into a very stressful situation. For a guy having location problems, that's not very ideal. On the other hand, there are those that think he'll be a star.

[witesoxfan]

Where are you coming up with this?

A 2002: 166 IP, 2.77 ERA 1.10 WHIP

A 2003: 138 IP, 3.00 ERA 1.25 WHIP

AA 2004: 119 IP, 2.57 ERA 1.17 WHIP

ML 2004: 28.1 IP, 3.49 ERA 1.45 WHIP

 

He struggled in AAA last year and 2004, and in the majors last year, but past that he's been solid.  Thats far from "every level"

 

So his value has dropped, thus, Abreu + Floyd

 

Please tell me this is not true KW...please hold out for the best deal, and if it doesnt come, do not make the trade.

[knightni]

I was going by earlier statements that said he's struggled at AAA.

[Felix]

He had a lot of control problems last year in AAA. There are a lot of people down on him. After listening to KW this past weekend, I really don't think there is anything to this, but he would have huge balls to make this trade. Team wins its first championship in 88 years and trade your playoff #1 starter and WS MVP both in the same trade. Floyd would be coming into a very stressful situation. For a guy having location problems, that's not very ideal. On the other hand, there are those that think he'll be a star.

I know this, but thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying juding a player on 28 innings in the majors is pretty foolish, as I said in my last post

[Dick Allen]

I know this, but thats not what I'm saying.  I'm saying juding a player on 28 innings in the majors is pretty foolish, as I said in my last post

Some pitchers you don't need 28 innings to judge. I just don't like the fact his 2005 season was as Donald Trump likes to say, " a total disaster", and 2004 in AAA he wasn't exactly stellar. He is young and cheap, but Abreu offsets that cheapness, and would leave KW in a spot if he has to fill a hole and add payroll.

[SSH2005]

Does anyone remember that there was a lot of buzz that the White Sox were interested in Abreu at the Winter Meetings? Apparently, Tim Kurkjian of ESPN reported that the Sox were interested in Abreu even back then. And I remember reading about how KW loves "big name" players.

[Frank the Tank 35]

If this trade actually goes through, I can see one other positive benefit. If Urbina ever gets out of jail, he would likely sign with the Sox. With three of his best friends here, Ozzie, Freddy, and Bobby, there's no doubt he'd come searching for a contract in Chicago. I'm sure the 3 of them would vouch for Urbina to KW about being a great guy, etc etc, in spite of the recent jail time and accusations. I'm not the hugest fan of Urbina but in the current situation, we could do a LOT worse. Plus he has closer experience, something that almost seems as if it's a prerequisite to be in our pen. Of course I'm counting a lot of ifs...

Edited February 2, 2006 by Frank the Tank 35

[G&T]

If this trade actually goes through, I can see one other positive benefit.  If Urbina ever gets out of jail, he would likely sign with the Sox.  With three of his best friends here, Ozzie, Freddy, and Bobby, there's no doubt he'd come searching for a contract in Chicago. 

I thought Minaya was assembling the all-Latin team.

Edited February 2, 2006 by G&T

[SSH2005]

If this trade actually goes through, I can see one other positive benefit.  If Urbina ever gets out of jail, he would likely sign with the Sox.  With three of his best friends here, Ozzie, Freddy, and Bobby, there's no doubt he'd come searching for a contract in Chicago.  I'm sure the 3 of them would vouch for Urbina to KW about being a great guy, etc etc, in spite of the recent jail time and accusations.  I'm not the hugest fan of Urbina but in the current situation, we could do a LOT worse.  Plus he has closer experience, something that almost seems as if it's a prerequisite to be in our pen.  Of course I'm counting a lot of ifs...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If Urbina is found not guilty and is released from jail, I'd take him on a cheap deal over having Bajenaru in our bullpen. Urbina may only get a minor league deal with all the crap going on with him.

Edited February 2, 2006 by SSH2005

[GoodAsGould]

give them a minor prospect and have them give us tejeda instead of floyd

[Flash Tizzle]

If the Comcast affiliate in Philadelphia is reporting this rumor I wouldn't exactly consider it a rumor. I believe it's legitimate now. These Comcast networks have strong influences from the teams which have part in their ownership. Whether it's from a close contact within the Phillies or not, you have to believe they wouldn't just report it for the sake of providing conversation.

 

I'm not a fan of this trade. Not necessarily because of the financial limitations it may impose next season, but I'd rather receive a package centered around pitching. I suppose Williams considers this Abreu package the best available, and is intent on receiving something for him before he departs.

 

Can anyone tell me Floyd's 'stuff?' I wonder if Sox scouts look at him and see their next Marte.

[SSH2005]

Can anyone tell me Floyd's 'stuff?' I wonder if Sox scouts look at him and see their next Marte.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good curveball, fastball, and changeup. I think curveball is his best pitch. Not entirely sure though. His problem is control.

[Flash Tizzle]

Good curveball, fastball, and changeup.  I think curveball is his best pitch.  Not entirely sure though.  His problem is control.

 

Interesting project Floyd could become. Cooper could help modify his mechanics. Rather have control problems than weak stuff or an injury history. Since we're likely expecting him to pitch out of the bullpen, if he posts numbers comparable to either Vizcaino or Marte--with the possibility of improving on both--it'd be a fair investment. Won't expect much from him, though.

[beck72]

From BA's 2004 Prospect Handbook: Phils #2

"Floyd entered his pro career w/ two plus pitches, a 92-95 mph fastball w/ movement and a shoulders to shoelaces hard curveball that rates a 80 on the 20-80 scale at times. His main focus since has been developing a changeup which now rates average. A longtime fan of Kevin Millwood, Floyd tried to emulate his idol's deliberate delivery after wactching him in ST. It cost Floyd his rhythm and deceptiveness and it tool a month to remedy the problem. He must coninue to hone his location and ability to repeat pitches, but he's still ahead of most pitchers his age. Floyd's development is right on track. He'll move up to AA in 2004."

[southsideirish71]

From BA's 2004 Prospect Handbook: Phils #2

"Floyd entered his pro career w/ two plus pitches, a 92-95 mph fastball w/ movement and a shoulders to shoelaces hard curveball that rates a 80 on the 20-80 scale at times. His main focus since has been developing a changeup which now rates average. A longtime fan of Kevin Millwood, Floyd tried to emulate his idol's deliberate delivery after wactching him in ST. It cost Floyd his rhythm and deceptiveness and it tool a month to remedy the problem. He must coninue to hone his location and ability to repeat pitches, but he's still ahead of most pitchers his age. Floyd's development is right on track. He'll move up to AA in 2004."

 

 

Would Floyd be better than what we have as far as second left in the pen? What can Cooper do with him? Cotts walked the world just as recently as the year before.

 

I dont know if we do this. Abreu costs a lot and that scares me as far as retaining Buerhle and other pitchers in a few years. However he does have some speed, and is Ozzie Guillens fellow countryman. Another lefty bat would really balance the lineup. I mean we had problems against righties last year. How would we look this year with the below lineup

 

Pods Lefty

Uribe Righty

Abreu Lefty

Konerko Righty

Thome Lefty

Iguchi righty

AJ Lefty

Anderson righty

Crede lefty

[SSH2005]

Interesting project Floyd could become. Cooper could help modify his mechanics. Rather have control problems than weak stuff or an injury history. Since we're likely expecting him to pitch out of the bullpen, if he posts numbers comparable to either Vizcaino or Marte--with the possibility of improving on both--it'd be a fair investment. Won't expect much from him, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's a few tidbits on Gavin Floyd that I found on Google...

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/chat/041228wk.html

His total package really reminds people of that of Brett Myers: low-90s fastball, hammer curve and struggles to locate his offerings at times. Floyd, however, is much more laid back than Myers.

Finishing Floyd, he's probably not going to be a No. 1. How many of those are there anyway? Sixteen in the whole major leagues. He projects as a solid 3, or at best a 2 right now. Better command across the board, and getting some velocity back on the heater could lead him to emerge in that category. But a 2-3 isn't bad.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...29/ai_n13651335

SCOUTING REPORT: RHP Gavin Floyd, 22, is ready for a regular turn in the rotation. His four-seam fastball was at 91 to 94 mph this spring after being at 85 to 89 mph last September. His best pitch is a 12-to-6 curveball that has showed improved bite. His changeup also is improving. Floyd will fill in for RHP Vicento Padilla (elbow), who is on the D.L. If Royd puts together a few solid performances, it will be difficult to send him to the minors when Padilla returns.--Ken Mandel

I guess he has had some mechanics problems and trouble with commanding his fastball. He relies on his curveball too much. According to Baseball America, Floyd had the best curveball in the Phillies farm system last year.

[SSH2005]

Would Floyd be better than what we have as far as second left in the pen?  What can Cooper do with him?  Cotts walked the world just as recently as the year before. 

 

I dont know if we do this.  Abreu costs a lot and that scares me as far as retaining Buerhle and other pitchers in a few years.  However he does have some speed, and is Ozzie Guillens fellow countryman.  Another lefty bat would really balance the lineup.  I mean we had problems against righties last year.  How would we look this year with the below lineup

 

Pods Lefty

Uribe Righty

Abreu Lefty

Konerko Righty

Thome Lefty

Iguchi righty

AJ Lefty

Anderson righty

Crede lefty

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you wondering if Floyd would be a better righty option out of the bullpen instead of one of the lefty options? If not, Gavin Floyd is a right-hander just in case I am reading your post wrong. But I love the lineup and that's the way I'd set it.

Edited February 2, 2006 by SSH2005

[southsideirish71]

Are you wondering if Floyd would be a better righty option out of the bullpen instead of one of the lefty options?  If not, Gavin Floyd is a right-hander incase I am reading your post wrong.  But I love the lineup and that's the way I'd set it.

 

I have no clue anything about Floyd. The first time I have seen his name is when it was posted in this thread. Hammels is about the only prospect from the Phillies I know of.

[SSH2005]

I have no clue anything about Floyd.  The first time I have seen his name is when it was posted in this thread.  Hammels is about the only prospect from the Phillies I know of.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh okay, sorry. Last year, Gavin Floyd was the Phillies top pitching prospect according to Baseball America. He was their #2 rated overall prospect, second only to 1B Ryan Howard. But keep in mind that the Phillies' pitching depth in the minors was extremely weak before they got Gio Gonzaez and Daniel Haigwood from us. They pretty much just had two good pitching prospects -- Gavin Floyd and Cole Hamels. Floyd pitched too many innings for the Phillies in 2004 and 2005 to be rated as a prospect by Baseball America this year so Cole Hamels is now their #1 rated prospect.

Edited February 2, 2006 by SSH2005

[Felix]

Pods Lefty

Uribe Righty

Abreu Lefty

Konerko Righty

Thome Lefty

Iguchi righty

AJ Lefty

Anderson righty

Crede lefty

Since when does Crede hit lefty?

[SSH2005]

Since when does Crede hit lefty?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Must have been a typo, heh. But the lineup looks good the way he set it.

[S720]

Alright, this is final offer:

 

Abreu + Gio for Contreras + Dye

 

Take it or leave it!

[GoodAsGould]

Alright, this is final offer:

 

Abreu + Gio for Contreras + Dye

 

Take it or leave it!

 

ok?

 

 

The more i hear this trade the more I like it... Floyd would be a project but Cooper is just the guy to help him... look what he has done with Cotts, Politte, Contreras, Garland all guys with control problems....While id love to have my favorite pitcher on the Phils Tejeda id definitely take Floyd too since we have the pitching coach to teach him the right way and the perfect C for him.