SSH2005 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) From reading the scouting reports, Gavin Floyd sounds like Brandon McCarthy without the control -- great curveball, low 90's fastball, and good changeup but he struggles with his command. Edited February 2, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 06:24 AM) From reading the scouting reports, Gavin Floyd sounds like Brandon McCarthy without the control -- great curveball, low 90's fastball, and good changeup but he stuggles with his command. Id say his stuff is better than B-Macs... if he could fix his control some he could be a stud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I wonder, if KW were to think about this sort of deal...if he might do one of his classic "I'll make the deal if you include $x million" sort of moves, given how expensive Abreu's contract is. I'm still going to sit here and think that no matter what happens, if anything, it would not happen if the Sox did not have a way penciled in to give Mark Buehrle a contract extension and bonus. I have enough confidence in KW right now to believe that one. One other thing I think I like about the concept...we have Abreu for several years...so it's entirely possible to let Sweeney sit in the minors for another 2 years, let Abreu hit 35 home runs a year in the Cell, and then move Abreu 2 years from now when Sweeney is ready to bring in another big-time player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 12:46 AM) I wonder, if KW were to think about this sort of deal...if he might do one of his classic "I'll make the deal if you include $x million" sort of moves, given how expensive Abreu's contract is. Interesting you brought this up. I hope not. Depending on the amount of money Williams is intending Philadelphia to take on, we'll have to give up a prospect accordingly. Gillick is probably saying the same thing--similar to how the Thome deal was structured. Sweeney may not even be around to replace Abreu in a few years. The rate our organization produces outfield talent it may be feasible for KW. And since productive corner outfielders are easier to find, Williams may include Sweeney for a slightly cheaper Abreu. I'd rather take on his entire contract and hold onto Sweeney, but I've never seen us miss the opportunity for a cheaper contract before. Edited February 2, 2006 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I wonder, if KW were to think about this sort of deal...if he might do one of his classic "I'll make the deal if you include $x million" sort of moves, given how expensive Abreu's contract is. I'm still going to sit here and think that no matter what happens, if anything, it would not happen if the Sox did not have a way penciled in to give Mark Buehrle a contract extension and bonus. I have enough confidence in KW right now to believe that one. One other thing I think I like about the concept...we have Abreu for several years...so it's entirely possible to let Sweeney sit in the minors for another 2 years, let Abreu hit 35 home runs a year in the Cell, and then move Abreu 2 years from now when Sweeney is ready to bring in another big-time player. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not really several years. Abreu will earn $13 million in 2006, $15 million in 2007, and has a $16 million team option or $2 million buyout for 2008. So he would be on the Sox for either 2 or 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 only money id ask them to take on is the 2 million buyout if we chose to exercise it.... also I think KW really likes Sweeney and wont give him up easily... it seems the organization as a whole has been really high on Sweeney moreso than any other prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 12:46 AM) I wonder, if KW were to think about this sort of deal...if he might do one of his classic "I'll make the deal if you include $x million" sort of moves, given how expensive Abreu's contract is. I'm still going to sit here and think that no matter what happens, if anything, it would not happen if the Sox did not have a way penciled in to give Mark Buehrle a contract extension and bonus. I have enough confidence in KW right now to believe that one. One other thing I think I like about the concept...we have Abreu for several years...so it's entirely possible to let Sweeney sit in the minors for another 2 years, let Abreu hit 35 home runs a year in the Cell, and then move Abreu 2 years from now when Sweeney is ready to bring in another big-time player. Abreu is gonna hit 35 here and has never done so in citizens bank ( well his career for that matter)? He has had right around 700 plate since 1999-2000 so he has plenty of chances. I would expect around the same numbers considering each divisions pitching is pretty close to one another. Edited February 2, 2006 by q\/\/3r+y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Abreu is gonna hit 35 here and has never done so in citizens bank ( well his career for that matter)? He has had right around 700 plate since 1999-2000 so he has plenty of chances. I would expect around the same numbers considering each divisions pitching is pretty close to one another. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed, Abreu ain't gonna hit 35 homers at the Cell. Maybe 30 at the most. Abreu's value is in his ability to hit for AVG, his massive OBP, and his speed. He's mostly a doubles hitter. Don't let the stupid Homerun Derby fool you. But he would instantly be the best #3 hitter option on our team. Thome is probably the best option at #3 right now. Also, Abreu could probably steal 40 bases again with Ozzie pushing him to run even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 1, 2006 -> 07:20 PM) So if this trade went through, the Sox would still have Anderson and his .176 average, and Floyd and his 10.00 era. I know Floyd has some potential, being the 4th overall pick in his draft and all, but the guy had an ERA over 6.00 in AAA last year, and he walks the world. I hope to God this is just a rumor. Abreu is great, but if this went through, it would more than likely leave KW will no financial flexibility for this season and next, and may be the beginning of the end for Mark Buerhle in Chicago. QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 02:09 AM) Not really several years. Abreu will earn $13 million in 2006, $15 million in 2007, and has a $16 million team option or $2 million buyout for 2008. So he would be on the Sox for either 2 or 3 years. Which means that resigning Buehrle has nothing to do with Abreu because Buehrle has his contract up after 2007... Abreu wouldn't be on the payroll then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 07:37 AM) Which means that resigning Buehrle has nothing to do with Abreu because Buehrle has his contract up after 2007... Abreu wouldn't be on the payroll then. I've read at least in the other deals which were discussed where he would go to Baltimore or Boston, that for Abreu to waive his no-trade clause, his 2008 option would have to be exercised. Edited February 2, 2006 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I've read at least in the other deals which were discussed where he would go to Baltimore or Boston, that for Abreu to waive his no-trade clause, his 2008 option would have to be exercised. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I doubt that Abreu would make that demand to come play for Ozzie... http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...s_cws&fext=.jsp Guillen, Freddy Garcia, Detroit's Ugueth Urbina and Philadelphia's Bobby Abreu are all very close friends from their time spent together in Venezuela. Guillen has stated before that if he's hanging out in his hometown of Caracas, one of the other three won't be too far behind. http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASAp...4news&fext=.jsp Abreu is already in fantastic shape this season, as he worked out with his good friend Ozzie Guillen over the winter and took a handful of swings in select Winter Ball games. If we do get Abreu, Urbina is next if he ever gets out of jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 QUOTE(Felix @ Feb 1, 2006 -> 09:33 PM) Since when does Crede hit lefty? I got caught up in the whole righty lefty thing, and it was a typo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Personally, I don't think this deal goes through. It might have been brought up, but I doubt it. KW is not crazy enough(not saying that in neither a negative or positive way) to trade his ACE pitcher from down the stretch last year and a very affordable Jermaine Dye who was one of only few RF's to hit over 30HR's last year for Abreu(who's very good) and Floyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 02:00 PM) Personally, I don't think this deal goes through. It might have been brought up, but I doubt it. KW is not crazy enough(not saying that in neither a negative or positive way) to trade his ACE pitcher from down the stretch last year and a very affordable Jermaine Dye who was one of only few RF's to hit over 30HR's last year for Abreu(who's very good) and Floyd. I agree. I think our best bet is to go with the six starters. We were very, and let me emphasize, very fortunate to have our top 4 guys healthy all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank the Tank 35 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I'm not saying I condone this, but if we included Fields in this deal, I think we could get a good chunk of change back. The Phils are gonna drop David Bell next year and will be in need of a new 3B, something they really don't have internally at this point. Of course with Crede's back, it's better that we keep him unless KW is astronomically wowed. Or perhaps maybe we could convince them that our "top 10 prospect" catcher is really, really awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I know KW many times says one thing & does another but I believe him this time when he says he won't trade Contra unless he gets a BMac- player back in return. Not someone with BMac's ML success but someone who has BMac's ML promise. That might require the Mets & Phils to seek a 3rd team because Kenny won't settle for a player like Garland-2004 in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) I'm not saying I condone this, but if we included Fields in this deal, I think we could get a good chunk of change back. The Phils are gonna drop David Bell next year and will be in need of a new 3B, something they really don't have internally at this point. Of course with Crede's back, it's better that we keep him unless KW is astronomically wowed. Or perhaps maybe we could convince them that our "top 10 prospect" catcher is really, really awesome. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed, Josh Fields is a guy who the Phillies would love to get from us (David Bell sucks). But it would be nice to keep him even though Crede isn't a free agent until after 2008. Im going to have to agree with you, however I do like this trade. I am a huge fan of Count, however we still are not sure with Jose we are going to get, and his value could be at an all time high. Getting Abreu in here would be a big boost to the O with the OBP he brings to the table. He would fit right in with the team, and the only real reason to me that this deal could have some life to it is based on Aberu and Oz being so close, which I was unaware of. With Count gone, you move Mac from the bullpen into the rotation, and put Floyd in Brandons spot in the pen. IMO a smaller move to aquire a vet for the pen becomes that much more important. With all that said, I just dont see Kenny trading away the game 1 starter for every playoff sereis, along with the WS MVP. Just cant see it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I doubt Floyd would replace McCarthy in the bullpen to start the season. He needs to hone his control at AAA first. It would most likely be Bajenaru and a second lefty in the bullpen, possibly even Urbina if he gets out of jail. Edited February 2, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 LOL. You can bet they went on mlbtraderumors or got it from somewhere that heard it from there or a message board. Anyway. This trade isn't going to happen. Not a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 05:51 PM) LOL. You can bet they went on mlbtraderumors or got it from somewhere that heard it from there or a message board. Anyway. This trade isn't going to happen. Not a chance. Um... Why not a chance? On paper, it makes sense for both teams...KW is getting pitching back in return, gets a player he loves, while taking on no money for this year and then figuring out finances for next year at some other time. His goal is to win another championship...I don't think he cares how he does it. And a lot of times...though not all times...bringing in fresh bodies who have not won a World Championship will help. I don't like the trade...but I'm not going to rule it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I'm going to rule it out. Not happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 05:59 PM) Um... Why not a chance? On paper, it makes sense for both teams...KW is getting pitching back in return, gets a player he loves, while taking on no money for this year and then figuring out finances for next year at some other time. His goal is to win another championship...I don't think he cares how he does it. And a lot of times...though not all times...bringing in fresh bodies who have not won a World Championship will help. I don't like the trade...but I'm not going to rule it out. No, KW gets a PITCHER back in the deal. Pitching implies that they are good. Gavin floyd is not good. KW said and stressed that he will not trade Jose Contreras except for top, top pitching. Floyd doesn't fit anywhere near that bill. Additionally, Dye and Abreu will put up fairly similar numbers this year, in different categories of course, but I expect their OPS' to be similar again. So basically you would be trading an above average right fielder with an awesome contract for a slightly above JD outfielder with a mediocre to bad contract. SO that's fairly even. So pretty much you are trading a number 1 starter for Gavin Floyd, which just isn't going to happen. Edited February 3, 2006 by jphat007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 06:22 PM) No, KW gets a PITCHER back in the deal. Pitching implies that they are good. Gavin floyd is not good. KW said and stressed that he will not trade Jose Contreras except for top, top pitching. Floyd doesn't fit anywhere near that bill. Additionally, Dye and Abreu will put up fairly similar numbers this year, in different categories of course, but I expect their OPS' to be similar again. So basically you would be trading an above average right fielder with an awesome contract for a slightly above JD outfielder with a mediocre to bad contract. SO that's fairly even. So pretty much you are trading a number 1 starter for Gavin Floyd, which just isn't going to happen. KW also said in late November the Sox were pretty much done making moves for the rest of the offseason. Marte, Duque, Vizcaino, and Chris Young for Javier Vazquez and Rob Mackowiak later, KW proves how bad his poker face truly is. And truth be told, Gavin Floyd has hella good stuff...probably an adequate 2 or good 3 if he can find his control. The Sox as an organization basically stress control, and AJP and Cooper have helped turn Contreras, Garland, Politte, Hermanson, and Cotts into very solid pitchers due to that philosophy. KW also apparently likes Abreu...it's very understandable as to why. Defensively, he's basically the same as Jermaine Dye in RF with a more accurate arm, and he is an OB machine offensively, while also producing power, thus being about the perfect #3 hitter. Contreras's contract also ends after this season, and there will be no compensation from arbitration, due to being an international free agent. That trade makes a ton of sense from both team's standpoints...capitalize on both Contreras and Dye's values while they are at their highest, and get a top 15-20 hitter in the game along with a pitcher whose value is at his lowest, whereas Philly is unloading a bad contract, getting an adequate replacement in Dye, and bringing in the ace that Gillick is looking for. On paper, it's almost a no-brainer...but if you can somehow talk Philly into picking up some money from Abreu's contract, or somehow get them to include another pitching prospect, than it is almost a no brainer both on paper and in real life. I personally don't want the trade to happen, but love Abreu as a player...that is how much I dislike his contract. It resticts so many things financially that you have very little room to do much else if injuries were to occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) No, KW gets a PITCHER back in the deal. Pitching implies that they are good. Gavin floyd is not good. KW said and stressed that he will not trade Jose Contreras except for top, top pitching. Floyd doesn't fit anywhere near that bill. Additionally, Dye and Abreu will put up fairly similar numbers this year, in different categories of course, but I expect their OPS' to be similar again. So basically you would be trading an above average right fielder with an awesome contract for a slightly above JD outfielder with a mediocre to bad contract. SO that's fairly even. So pretty much you are trading a number 1 starter for Gavin Floyd, which just isn't going to happen. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you serious? Dye is going to put up an OPS close to Abreu's next season? Abreu had an uncommonly horrible second half last season and he still put up an .879 OPS. Dye ended the season with an .846 OPS. A difference of .033 points of OPS isn't really that similar to begin with. Abreu has a career .923 OPS. Dye has a career .803 OPS. Not gonna happen. And Abreu isn't "slightly" better than Dye. Abreu blows Dye away statistically... Jermaine Dye (career stats): .272 AVG | .334 OBP | .469 SLG | .803 OPS Bobby Abreu (career stats): .303 AVG | .411 OBP | .512 SLG | .923 OPS It isn't even close. By the way, Abreu with his large contract is still worth way more than Dye with his cheap contract. It isn't "fairly even." Do you think that the Phillies would trade us Abreu and his contract for Dye and his contract? Not a chance in hell. Edited February 3, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I haven't chimed in too much during these Abreu trade rumor threads, but I was wondering if there's been any actual new rumors regarding this possible trade in the last few days? Or, are we just going off of the initial report. BTW, I agree with Jphat....there's not a chance in hell this trade takes place. I can't see the Phillies doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 06:45 PM) Are you serious? Dye is going to put up an OPS close to Abreu's next season? Abreu had an uncommonly horrible second half last season and he still put up an .879 OPS. Dye ended the season with an .846 OPS. A difference of .033 points of OPS isn't really that similar to begin with. Abreu has a career .923 OPS. Dye has a career .803 OPS. Not gonna happen. And Abreu isn't "slightly" better than Dye. Abreu blows Dye away statistically... Jermaine Dye (career stats): .272 AVG | .334 OBP | .469 SLG | .803 OPS Bobby Abreu (career stats): .303 AVG | .411 OBP | .512 SLG | .923 OPS It isn't even close. By the way, Abreu with his large contract is still worth way more than Dye with his cheap contract. It isn't "fairly even." Do you think that the Phillies would trade us Abreu and his contract for Dye and his contract? Not a chance in hell. No, I didn't say they'd trade Dye for Abreu straight up, but I'm not surprised you try to put words in my mouth. FOr the purpose of this trade and what they will get out of each player for the money it is fairly the same. And Abreu put those numbers up in a slightly better hitters park, which goes along with teh contract. Abreu at his salary is slightly better than Dye at his salary and contract situation. (FIXED}And I bet their OPS' are fairly similar next year too Okday, I won't edit it up there but I obviously means Abreu is better than Dye, but slightly. Of course you've porbably already typed the response. And at their current salaries. I assume everybody knew what I meant though. Edited February 3, 2006 by jphat007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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