NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 QUOTE(Soxy @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 06:00 PM) Against. It's a flawed system, and an error made under this system is too horrible to imagine. I also don't want anyone killing in my name--even if it is after a full judicial trial. Like Rex said, I'm against murder and in my eyes if it's a gang banger pulling the trigger or the government pulling the proverbial trigger it's the same. I also really don't feel that it is implemented fairly and equally across race (white people get it less) and gender (women get it less) and socio-economic status (rich people get it less)--so we don't even seem to implement it fairly. eleni new york If there anything flawed about it its that its not the manditory sentence for all serious crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 06:06 PM) If there anything flawed about it its that its not the manditory sentence for all serious crimes. Isn't it ironic that Iraq loved the death penalty and torture, like Nuke, and we are sending in guys like Nuke to stop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 06:14 PM) Isn't it ironic that Iraq loved the death penalty and torture, like Nuke, and we are sending in guys like Nuke to stop them. I think its also pretty messed up that you're comparing us to the Hussein regime when they tortured and killed people for no reason other than to satisfy their own sadistic urges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 06:16 PM) I think its also pretty messed up that you're comparing us to the Hussein regime when they tortured and killed people for no reason other than to satisfy their own sadistic urges. Oh there was a reason. It was because they were KURDS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 06:16 PM) I think its also pretty messed up that you're comparing us to the Hussein regime when they tortured and killed people for no reason other than to satisfy their own sadistic urges. I'm not certain that is true. They decided what were serious crimes against their country and got tough on them. Isn't the concept the same? Strong law and order, they shut up protestors, they followed strict fundementalist religous views. They concept is the same, they just stretched the boundaries. Read through a list of countries that kill their citizens and then read through a list of countries that don't. Then you tell me which list you want to be on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minors Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 One thing I don't understand is how liberals can be against the death penalty but on the same hand be pro choice. The States need to cut down on the appeals process 1 state one Federal a limit of 5 years (that is long enough to fix any errors). Thugs need to actually pay for their crimes to most of these thugs LWOP is an upgrade in living conditions not a punishment. The States need to let the thugs know that they will be executed and within 5 years not 25. For every argument against capital punishment there is one that supports it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Death Penalty Permitted * Afghanistan * Antigua and Barbuda * Bahamas * Bahrain * Bangladesh * Barbados * Belarus * Belize * Botswana * Burundi * Cameroon * Chad * China (People's Republic) * Comoros * Congo (Democratic Republic) * Cuba * Dominica * Egypt * Equatorial Guinea * Eritrea * Ethiopia * Gabon * Ghana * Guatemala * Guinea * Guyana * India * Indonesia * Iran * Iraq * Jamaica * Japan * Jordan * Kazakhstan * Korea, North * Korea, South * Kuwait * Kyrgyzstan * Laos * Lebanon * Lesotho * Liberia * Libya * Malawi * Malaysia * Mongolia * Nigeria * Oman * Pakistan * Palestinian Authority * Philippines * Qatar * Rwanda * St. Kitts and Nevis * St. Lucia * St. Vincent and the Grenadines * Saudi Arabia * Sierra Leone * Singapore * Somalia * Sudan * Swaziland * Syria * Taiwan * Tajikistan * Tanzania * Thailand * Trinidad and Tobago * Uganda * United Arab Emirates * United States * Uzbekistan * Vietnam * Yemen * Zambia * Zimbabwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Death Penalty Outlawed (year) * Andorra (1990) * Angola (1992) * Armenia (2003) * Australia (1984) * Austria (1950) * Azerbaijan (1998) * Belgium (1996) * Bermuda (1999) * Bhutan (2004) * Bosnia-Herzegovina (1997) * Bulgaria (1998) * Cambodia (1989) * Canada (1976) * Cape Verde (1981) * Colombia (1910) * Costa Rica (1877) * Côte d'Ivoire (2000) * Croatia (1990) * Cyprus (1983) * Czech Republic (1990) * Denmark (1933) * Djibouti (1995) * Dominican Republic (1966) * East Timor (1999) * Ecuador (1906) * Estonia (1998) * Finland (1949) * France (1981) * Georgia (1997) * Germany (1987) * Greece (1993) * Guinea-Bissau (1993) * Haiti (1987) * Honduras (1956) * Hungary (1990) * Iceland (1928) * Ireland (1990) * Italy (1947) * Kiribati (1979) * Liechtenstein (1987) * Lithuania (1998) * Luxembourg (1979) * Macedonia (1991) * Malta (1971) * Marshall Islands (1986) * Mauritius (1995) * Mexico (2005) * Micronesia (1986) * Moldova (1995) * Monaco (1962) * Mozambique (1990) * Namibia (1990) * Nepal (1990) * Netherlands (1870) * New Zealand (1961) * Nicaragua (1979) * Niue (n.a.) * Norway (1905) * Palau (n.a.) * Panama (1903) * Paraguay (1992) * Poland (1997) * Portugal (1867) * Romania (1989) * Samoa (2004) * San Marino (1848) * São Tomé and Príncipe (1990) * Senegal (2004) * Serbia and Montenegro (2002) * Seychelles (1993) * Slovak Republic (1990) * Slovenia (1989) * Solomon Islands (1966) * South Africa (1995) * Spain (1978) * Sweden (1921) * Switzerland (1942) * Turkey (2002) * Turkmenistan (1999) * Tuvalu (1978) * Ukraine (1999) * United Kingdom (1973) * Uruguay (1907) * Vanuatu (1980) * Vatican City (1969) * Venezuela (1863) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 QUOTE(minors @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 06:21 PM) One thing I don't understand is how liberals can be against the death penalty but on the same hand be pro choice. The States need to cut down on the appeals process 1 state one Federal a limit of 5 years (that is long enough to fix any errors). Thugs need to actually pay for their crimes to most of these thugs LWOP is an upgrade in living conditions not a punishment. The States need to let the thugs know that they will be executed and within 5 years not 25. For every argument against capital punishment there is one that supports it. Just because you are pro choice does not mean you are pro abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 06:23 PM) Just because you are pro choice does not mean you are pro abortion. I see his point clearly. How can you be against killing known criminals who have commited heinous crimes and be for letting a woman kill her completely innocent child. Do you not see the irony? Edited January 30, 2006 by NUKE_CLEVELAND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 On a side note, let's keep this on track with the death penalty so we can help out Tom....Sorry I went on a bit of a tangent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 One thing I don't understand is how conservatives can be for the death penalty but on the same hand be against pro choice. The Vatican teaches a consistent ethic in life, Pro-Life and Anti-Death Penalty. Makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 06:25 PM) I see his point clearly. How can you be against killing known criminals who have commited heinous crimes and be for letting a woman kill her completely innocent child. Do you not see the irony? I see it and I don't think either is the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 06:26 PM) One thing I don't understand is how conservatives can be for the death penalty but on the same hand be against pro choice. The Vatican teaches a consistent ethic in life, Pro-Life and Anti-Death Penalty. Makes sense to me. Very simple. Killing the innocent is wrong. Killing the guilty is justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Yes. For. When one's life is taken against one's will, removing him or her from their friends, family--their time on Earth--, the offender's life, in turn, should be taken. He or she should no longer be among the living. You had your chance. You decided to end someone's life with your time. You, too, should be removed from this Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 06:26 PM) On a side note, let's keep this on track with the death penalty so we can help out Tom....Sorry I went on a bit of a tangent. I am for the death penalty for over zealous mods and admins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minors Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Tom, here is a good link for your great state of Alabama: Alabama Death Row Inmates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHAMBARONS Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 QUOTE(minors @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 07:35 PM) Tom, here is a good link for your great state of Alabama: Alabama Death Row Inmates Thanks I have studied most of the recent cases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minors Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Just because you are pro choice does not mean you are pro abortion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nitpicking if you are pro choice then you DO support abortion: Pro-choice is a common self-description used by people who believe that women should have the legal right to have an abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minors Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 WHAT ABOLITIONISTS SAY AND WHAT THEY MEAN: From Pro Death Penalty.com Abolitionist's statement : All killing is wrong. What they mean : Its wrong for the state to execute a guilty murderer. Killing the innocent unborn with abortion is OK. Abolitionist's statement: Every human life is precious. What they mean: All murderers are precious. All others are secondary in value and expendable. Abolitionist's statement: Murder is a terrible crime. What they mean: The execution of a murderer is infinitely worse than genocide and slavery combined. Abolitionist's statement: We also care about the murder victims. What they mean: We don’t give a flying fig about murder victims but we are going to pretend that we do so we won’t look like moral degenerates. Abolitionist's statement: The European countries have abolished the death penalty. What they mean: America should also disregard the views of the majority. Abolitionist's statement: The death penalty doesn’t stop murders from happening. What they mean: Life imprisonment will stop murders from happening. Abolitionist's statement: The murderer wasn’t at fault; he had a bad childhood etc. What they mean: The victim asked for it, for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Abolitionist's statement: We must give a murderer a chance to repent. What they mean: We must accept the risk of a murderer killing again. Abolitionist's statement: Inmate “X” who is due to be executed tonight is innocent. What they mean: Inmate “X” SAID he is innocent. Abolitionist's statement: Inmate “X” is well spoken and can draw lovely pictures. What they mean: Two good reasons for a reprieve. Abolitionist's statement: Inmate “X”, who was executed last night, was tortured to death. What they mean: After he was given the lethal dose, he coughed a couple of times. Abolitionist's statement: Life imprisonment prevents a murderer from killing again. What they mean: Murder by escapees, parolees and prison murders don’t count. Abolitionist's statement: What if an innocent person is executed? What they mean: Innocents are only sacred when they manipulate people into preserving murderers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 What a tremendous array of strawmen and other s***ty arguments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Wow ProDeathPenalty.com sure showed me with their detailed, scientific, factually based argumentation and debate skills If they want to talk about being moral degenerates then perhaps they can stop with the active bloodlust wanting to kill somebody. And I am pro-choice. I believe abortion should be safe, legal and rare. But when you have abstinence only being promoted in schools, many parents either unwilling or not knowing how to talk about safe sexual practices with their children, etc, then it is no wonder that these children are growing up into adults who don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to safe sexuality practices. Plus, I don't see all these pro-lifers who want all these women to have these kids, I don't see them paying the medical bills and paying for all the needs of the kid for 18 years. If you want them around so badly, take care of them. It always struck me as odd that many self-described politicians that described themselves as Christians were always for the death penalty. If we insist on placing ourselves under the old law, as Paul reminds us, we are obligated to keep every commandment of the law (Gal. 5:3). But if Christ is the end of the law (Rom. 10:4), if we have been discharged from the law to serve, not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit (Rom. 7:6), then all of these biblical mores come under the authority of the Spirit. /ends.theological.banter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minors Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 ABOLITIONIST'S DICTIONARY America \'am-er-e-ka\ n: 1 a : Nazi Germany b : Saudi Arabia c : Iran d : China e : to be directly compared with any nation that has a bad reputation in the international community provided that they have the death penalty (this means that Japan and Singapore are not to be included in this list even though they have the DP since neither one is infamous enough to degrade the US with a comparison) f: the only source for evil in the world syn see Dystopia Charles Manson \'charls 'man-sun\ n: 1 : troubled and misunderstood citizen who needs psychological counselling and rehab at taxpayer expense for the rest of his natural life syn see the Pope; Mother Teresa death penalty \'deth 'pen-el-tee\ n 1 a : premeditated murder of an innocent person by the state b : the only form of murder there is syn see murder; genocide Europe \'eur-up\ n: 1 a : the place of enlightenment b : Utopia George W. Bush \'jorj 'dub-le-yu 'bush\ n: 1 a : the Antichrist b : worse than Hitler and Stalin combined syn see nazi; KKK member innocent person \,in-o-sent 'pers-en\ n: 1 : anyone who is on death row 2 a : one who is only valued and revered when they manipulate people into preserving murderers b : belittled, trivialized, and ignored with unmitigated contempt when he comes in the form of a murder victim or a repeat offence syn see death row inmate; Gary Ghram; Mumia Abdul Jamal KKK member \'kay-kay-kay 'mem-ber\ n: 1 : anyone who favors the DP for murderers syn see George W. Bush; nazi life without parole \'life 'with-out 'puh-rol\ n: 1 : alternative to the death penalty that abolitionists mention but adamantly refuse to spend time or effort to establish or maintain because they are too obsessed with keeping murderers alive to bother with keeping them in jail 2 : absolutely flawless in its perfection 3 : absolutely guaranteed to prevent killers from murdering again regardless of escapes, furloughs, or parole being granted due to a change in sentencing laws syn see the Holy Grail murder victims \'mur-der 'vic-tems\ n: 1 : faceless, insignificant statistics to be trivialized and ignored syn see invisible men nazi \'na-tse\ n: 1 : anyone who favors the DP for murderers syn see George W. Bush; KKK member orgasm \'or-ga-sm\ n: 1 : what retentionists get at every execution. racism \'ras-sis-im\ n: 1 : the sole reason why blacks and latinos can be found on death row repeat offences \'re-peet 'of-en-ses\ n 1 : faceless, insignificant statistics to be hated and reviled because they demonstrate just how dangerous it is to keep their precious-wecious murderers alive 2 : something that is impossible to occur if the paragon of perfection that is LWOP were applied syn see condemned souls; extremely hated; completely irrelevant retentionist \'re-ten-shen-ist\ noun: 1 : anyone who advocates the wholesale slaughter of innocent people who have been wrongly convicted and are incarcerated unfairly on death row 2 a: genocidal monster b: the only kind of person that abolitionists advocate the death penalty for syn see demon from Hell; evil incarnate slavery \'sla-ver-ee\ n 1 : the exact same thing as capital punishment syn see death penalty Texas \'tek-ses\ n: 1 a : hell on earth b : Auschwitz c : Dachau d : all of Hitler's concentration camps put together unbearably agonizing psychological torture \'un-ber-ab-ly 'a-gun-iz-ing 'si-ko-lo-gik-al 'tor-cher\ adj, v: 1 a : what the convicted murderer goes through on death row b : free room and board with television and reading privileges at taxpayers expense for 10-20 years c : the length of time it takes for appeals that ensures the inmate's guilt and to see if his Constitutional rights were met syn see medievil torture; death row white supremecist racist \'wite 'su-pre-me-sist 'ra-sist\ adj: 1 : anyone who favors the death penalty for murderers syn see nazi; KKK memeber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 10:56 PM) Wow And I am pro-choice. I believe abortion should be safe, legal and rare. But when you have abstinence only being promoted in schools, many parents either unwilling or not knowing how to talk about safe sexual practices with their children, etc, then it is no wonder that these children are growing up into adults who don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to safe sexuality practices. Plus, I don't see all these pro-lifers who want all these women to have these kids, I don't see them paying the medical bills and paying for all the needs of the kid for 18 years. If you want them around so badly, take care of them. Why should children, who are totally not ready to be having sex yet, be tought how? The excuse that "well they're going to do it anyway" doesn't wash with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHAMBARONS Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 I have a question: I see in my research that Illinois has put a stop to capital punishment, can some from there tell me why and the circumstances surronding it. Thanks Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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