Secular vs. Religious Police

[Steff]

Pedophiles have come from all walks of life. If people are not going to Church because of a small number of pedophile clergy, then stay away from Doctors, teachers, cops, birthday clowns who do construction, keep your kids out of sports, off the beach, and away from your relatives, including your spouse.

 

 

Noted.

 

However, doctors, teachers, cops, birthday clowns who do construction, sports figures, beach goers, and relatives, etc, etc.. don't usually have co-workers who ask you to just quietly go "play" somewhere else.

[CrimsonWeltall]

I don't see how anyone could vote for No. It would allow an organization to get away with anything.

[Texsox]

I don't see how anyone could vote for No.  It would allow an organization to get away with anything.

 

Some organizations that "police themselves" for various acts.

 

US Military

Police - Internal Affairs

Attorneys - Bar Association

Doctors - AMA

Congress

 

 

 

Steff, I pray all that has ended, but I don't share your optimism. In the past, school districts would dismiss someone to work elsewhere, sports teams would fire the coach, Little Leagues would fire the volunteer, families would not visit their "Uncle". If anything, all this attention, and a willingness of the public to not blame the victim, should have ended all this. Unfortunatly there is still a stigma for being a sexual abuse victim. There is still the trauma of testifying, and the most ridiculous to me, families that don't want to turn in a relative. That one pisses me off more than the others.

[samclemens]

molesters should go to jail. for 25 years, no matter if they happen to be clergy or not. we need a nationwide meghans law.

[Queen Prawn]

I am a catholic as believe whole heartedly that these predators should be handed over to the authorities for prosecution.  The catholic church cannot handle this within.  Its too political of a body and favorites, and favoritism gets in the way of investigations.  IMO they should de-frock the priest, ex-communicate them, and then give them and any evidence over to the autorities.  There are a lot of good men who are priests that have their name dragged through the gutter because of a few morons and some political mess that protects them. The quicker the church outs the evil from the itself, the quicker we can reclaim our priests as a group of holy men who help preach the word of God.

 

I am Catholic as well and agree with you 100%.

[mr_genius]

The quicker the church outs the evil from the itself, the quicker we can reclaim our priests as a group of holy men who help preach the word of God.

 

 

the Catholic church needs to let priests get married or this kind of stuff will never end.

 

they are attracting the wrong types of people to be priests.

[Steff]

Steff, I pray all that has ended, but I don't share your optimism. In the past, school districts would dismiss someone to work elsewhere, sports teams would fire the coach, Little Leagues would fire the volunteer, families would not visit their "Uncle". If anything, all this attention, and a willingness of the public to not blame the victim, should have ended all this.  Unfortunatly there is still a stigma for being a sexual abuse victim. There is still the trauma of testifying, and the most ridiculous to me, families that don't want to turn in a relative. That one pisses me off more than the others.

 

 

The system will always be flawed... but, with evidence, the church appears to practice the "shhh...just go away" method the most.

[NorthSideSox72]

Some organizations that "police themselves" for various acts.

 

US Military

Police - Internal Affairs

Attorneys - Bar Association

Doctors - AMA

Congress

 

 

Tex, in every one of those cases other than the military, someone in one of those groups who was molesting a child would be handed over to criminal authorities. And even the military might do it under certain circumstances.

[southsideirish71]

the Catholic church needs to let priests get married or this kind of stuff will never end.

 

they are attracting the wrong types of people to be priests.

 

 

I am a huge advocate of allowing priests to marry. I think it would change the clergy for the good, and also replenish the ranks. We currently have a problem with not enough priests, and now we also have a problem with a minority of them poking kids and giving the entire institution a bad name. What I dont understand is that they are so against married priests, but have been ordaining married clergy from other religions.

 

Former Episcopal Minister ordained, and he is married

 

Celibacy in the Catholic Church

[Texsox]

the Catholic church needs to let priests get married or this kind of stuff will never end.

 

they are attracting the wrong types of people to be priests.

 

Again, there are pediphiles who are married. I'm not certain that celebacy causes pediphilia. Sex with a child is unnatural, I don't believe not getting laid triggers a attraction to children. Maybe to prostitution or pornography, but not to children.

 

I do believe parish Priests should be allowed to marry, but for many other reasons. The Religious Order Priests will probably remain celebate.

 

I know any statistics would be unreliable because of the unreporting that has gone on, but I wonder if clergy are any more or less likely to be pediphiles than day school workers, teachers, coaches, cops, etc. The Catholic Church is getting all the press, and thankfully so, but so far the outrage hasn't extended further to protect even more children.

 

In a parallel thought. The Boy Scouts have in place youth protection rules that have made it very difficult for a leader to molest any children. One report I read form a national child advocacy group showed anadotal evidence that the rules caused some molestors to switch to Church groups, because they allowed for easy access and a "easy" environment. Non-denominational would be even easier, not as much scrutiny.

 

A few highlights of BSA rules. No one on one contact between adults and childrens. There is always another adult or another child present. No tenting with an adult other than your son. Seperate shower and bathrooms. Background checks on all volunteers. There is a guide to protecting your child in every Scout handbook and one of the requirements is to read over the material with your son (or daughter in Venturing). There are age appropriate programs we present to the youth so they can follow the 3 Rs to protect themselves; Recognize, Resist, and Report potential abuse cases. I am one of the presenters and I am saddened when units do not want to educate their families for fear that it will "scare them".

 

What saddens me in all this is how careful honest, caring adults have to be to avoid any appearance of in appropriate behavior. I remember my High School Cross Country coach opening his home every Saturday to the guys, we'd head for a run then have french toast afterwards. We'd take showers at his house (BYOtowel), I remember another coach sitting with me in the stands after I finished second at our conference meet, (if JC Lang reads this :finger ) with his arm around me, and consoled me while I cried for 55 minutes. Neither situation would be repeated today. Teachers and coaches can't risk it. And for that, I think our world loses.

[NorthSideSox72]

the Catholic church needs to let priests get married or this kind of stuff will never end.

 

they are attracting the wrong types of people to be priests.

 

I agree that they should allow marriage for priests.

 

But, I don't see these things as highly connected. The real thing to do, if you want to prevent the Priesthood from becoming a bastion for molesters, is to drop the hammer on the ones who offend. Defrock them, and hand them right over to the police for prosecution.

[Wong & Owens]

What saddens me in all this is how careful honest, caring adults have to be to avoid any appearance of in appropriate behavior. I remember my High School Cross Country coach opening his home every Saturday to the guys, we'd head for a run then have french toast afterwards. We'd take showers at his house (BYOtowel), I remember another coach sitting with me in the stands after I finished second at our conference meet, (if JC Lang reads this  :finger  ) with his arm around me, and consoled me while I cried for 55 minutes. Neither situation would be repeated today. Teachers and coaches can't risk it. And for that, I think our world loses.

 

I used to coach club volleyball for 7th and 8th grade girls. One day, at one of our weekly leagues, the dad of one of the girls that was the driver for the day had to leave early for some urgent work thing or something. He asked me if I could take his daughter and the other girl he was driving home after the games. I said sure no problem. The club director found out, and gave me a 10 minute tongue-lashing on why I can't do things like that.

 

NOT doing it never crossed my mind, I thought I was just doing a favor. But all it would have taken is one phone call, or one false accusation, and my life could have been negatively altered forever.

 

And that just sucks.

[sox4lifeinPA]

This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you.

 

:headshake

 

Moderator's note: Even though it was in green, I can't let that comment sit here. Sorry.

Edited February 2, 2006 by Rex Kickass

[mr_genius]

This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you.

 

:headshake

 

Moderator's note: Even though it was in green, I can't let that comment sit here. Sorry.

 

 

booo

[Texsox]

NOT doing it never crossed my mind, I thought I was just doing a favor.  But all it would have taken is one phone call, or one false accusation, and my life could have been negatively altered forever.

 

And that just sucks.

 

I use to worry about what pissing off one kid could do. When accusations are made and reported in the media, I try not to judge too quickly, there have been false accusations made. Scary of you work with kids at any age.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Your poll doesn't make sense with the title. The title pits them against each other but the poll simply asks whether secular should have any involvement.

 

As the poll is written the correct answer is obvious yes.

 

The Church's zero-tolerance policy was a good first step but it didn't go far enough. They should look to Internal police investigations as a prime example of how to handle the situation.

 

When a cop comes under review for a questionable shooting or other action the police conduct their own internal investigation using specialists who do nothing but internal investigations. While the investigation is being conducted the cop is either suspended or has his duties serverely compromised to where he can't create further suspicion or commit further harm for the case.

 

The Church needs to follow a similar path. They can not just allow that person to go about their actiivities as if all is well while a person is under investigation. That person's liberties need to be severely compromised to where nearly all of their duties are performed in the presence of a group.

No isolated or private conduct of any kind with any persons should be allowed. There are plenty of lay persons the Church can tap do insure this is the case at just about any parish setting.

 

In this particular case the problem the Church ran into was that the police got involved but the family & the victim never notified the Church. So without a direct complaint from either the Church had it's hands-cuffed. Adopting a zero-tolerance no-chance policy would change that. Either direct notification or police involvement would warrant an internal investigation by the Church. During at which the priest would be under continual supervision of a Church appointed internal investigator. The preist would have no chance to further due harm to any one.

[sox4lifeinPA]

booo

 

 

 

WHAT THE f***!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

 

Jim can say that in an original post and he MEANS IT, and I f***ing say it as a joke and get censored?

 

 

bah. typical soxtalk bulls***.

[Rex Kickass]

I'm sorry but the word you used I don't deem acceptable for this forum.

[sox4lifeinPA]

so if I waste my time looking for Jim's post, it'll be blocked out too? I was just quoting....

[Rex Kickass]

Yes.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Yes.

 

so we can't say "f***".

 

duely noted.

[mr_genius]

so we can't say "f***".

 

duely noted.

 

you better start clicking on those banner ads to make up for your indiscretions

[Rex Kickass]

so we can't say "f***".

 

duely noted.

You can say f***. You can't sayThis post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you.

Edited February 3, 2006 by Rex Kickass

[sox4lifeinPA]

This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you.

 

 

YES! I DID IT!

[sox4lifeinPA]

you better start clicking on those banner ads to make up for your indiscretions

 

 

oh snap. Now that I know how adsense works, I'm gonna click on that s*** Allll...day....long....