Teenage Girls thumb their nose at the Law

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

If they were caught doing it in the act I'd agree but the judge is just being a sore ass.

 

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong. They broke the law plain and simple and if they hadn't been so stupid and spiteful about doing it they would have gotten by with it. Additionally, its not as though someone came by and ratted on them, they were caught in the act......via their own photographs.

[NorthSideSox72]

If they were caught doing it in the act I'd agree but the judge is just being a sore ass.

 

 

That is one of the lamest defenses I've ever heard. And believe me, in my previous line of work, I heard a few. Including that one. I laughed. A lot.

 

You actually think people should only get in trouble when they are caught in the act? How can you say that with a straight face?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

 

That is one of the lamest defenses I've ever heard.  And believe me, in my previous line of work, I heard a few.  Including that one.  I laughed.  A lot.

 

You actually think people should only get in trouble when they are caught in the act?  How can you say that with a straight face?

 

 

Following that logic youd have to let 99.99% of murderers, rapists etc.....etc.... go because they weren't caught in the act.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

On a side note I see this thread heading straight for the Filibuster.

 

 

LOL!

[Spiff]

Did I say murders and rapists should be let go if not caught in the act? No. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. This (drinking underage) is a victimless crime.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Did I say murders and rapists should be let go if not caught in the act?  No.  Thanks for putting words in my mouth.  This (drinking underage) is a victimless crime.

 

 

Laws are on the books for a reason. You cant sit there and say "well we're not going to enforce this law for blah blah reason". If you think its ok for kids to drink at a younger age then petition your government to change the law. Until such time as they change it then respect the law.

[Spiff]

Laws are on the books for a reason.  You cant sit there and say "well we're not going to enforce this law for blah blah reason".  If you think its ok for kids to drink at a younger age then petition your government to change the law.  Until such time as they change it then respect the law.

 

does the phrase "civil disobedience" mean anything to you? i'm not saying these kids had any moral purpose to what they did, but "obey the law because it exists" is a stupid argument, especially in this case because of why the drinking age is what it is.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

does the phrase "civil disobedience" mean anything to you?  i'm not saying these kids had any moral purpose to what they did, but "obey the law because it exists" is a stupid argument, especially in this case because of why the drinking age is what it is.

 

 

Civil disobedience is still disobedience and your logic is totally flawed. There is a word that defines the condition that exists when people decide what laws they're going to obey. That word is anarchy.

[CanOfCorn]

Let's explain probation:

 

Here's what dictionary.com said:

 

Law. The act of suspending the sentence of a person convicted of a criminal offense and granting that person provisional freedom on the promise of good behavior.

 

Look, I got probation my first time getting a speeding ticket because I told the judge that I was taught in Driver's Ed that it's safer to go the same speed as surrounding traffic (my instructor did say that, but I left out the part where he said, "you should still drive the speed limit"). The judge said I got some bad advice and put me on probation. If I would've gotten another ticket in the whatever time frame, BOTH tickets would've counted on my record. I didn't get another ticket...and the one I got was expunged from my record. See...GOOD BEHAVIOR got me out of a ticket.

 

The teens violated their probation...they go to jail. It might be a little harsh, but tough s***, life is harsh. And the older you get, the more you'll realize it.

[RockRaines]

Did you know that you can be jailed for jaywalking?

[greasywheels121]

Did you know that you can be jailed for jaywalking?

 

Unfortunately, yes.

[Rex Kickass]

Civil disobedience is still disobedience and your logic is totally flawed.  There is a word that defines the condition that exists when people decide what laws they're going to obey.  That word is anarchy.

Since the move seems to be to but this in filibuster now I can say this:

Since our President chooses which laws he's going to follow in doing domestic surveillance, does that mean we live in anarchy?

[Spiff]

Civil disobedience is still disobedience and your logic is totally flawed.  There is a word that defines the condition that exists when people decide what laws they're going to obey.  That word is anarchy.

 

funny stuff

[Kyyle23]

funny stuff

 

almost as funny as your defense of underage drinking. But not quite that funny.

[Steff]

This (drinking underage) is a victimless crime.

 

 

 

Ugghhh... I must say it...

 

 

Until one of those carefree teens hurts you or someone you love.

 

Sorry Spiff... and I do know what you're saying... but this judge has a long and strong rep of being a hard ass on underage drinking. He was only trying to get them on the right track. Sadly.. it took a jail term to do it.

[RockRaines]

Well so basically its the "it was a law they broke it, they should be punished" vs "We break small laws everyday like jaywalking, copying dvd's, copyright laws (Kyle), and drinking is one of those in some situations."

 

I just think that the initial punishment was a bit harsh considering what i have seen in the same circumstance, and at the time, that was really harsh. And the kids were retarded for that website, and they deserve to be CAUGHT for underage drinking due to their stupidity. But at the same time, I dont think it deseved jail time.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Well so basically its the "it was a law they broke it, they should be punished" vs "We break small laws everyday like jaywalking, copying dvd's, copyright laws (Kyle), and drinking is one of those in some situations."

 

I just think that the initial punishment was a bit harsh considering what i have seen in the same circumstance, and at the time, that was really harsh.  And the kids were retarded for that website, and they deserve to be CAUGHT for underage drinking due to their stupidity.  But at the same time, I dont think it deseved jail time.

 

 

You didnt read the article. Their initial punishment was to be told by the judge to knock it off and that was it, they were let go. They werent thrown in jail until the second time they were caught ( that part where they drank, posted pics on the web, and then cursed the judge who was lenient with them the 1st time).

[RockRaines]

You didnt read the article.  Their initial punishment was to be told by the judge to knock it off and that was it, they were let go.  They werent thrown in jail until the second time they were caught ( that part where they drank, posted pics on the web, and then cursed the judge who was lenient with them the 1st time).

I know that. But I believe the initial reaction was also harsh, on his side, and the schools.

[Kyyle23]

Well so basically its the "it was a law they broke it, they should be punished" vs "We break small laws everyday like jaywalking, copying dvd's, copyright laws (Kyle), and drinking is one of those in some situations."

 

I just think that the initial punishment was a bit harsh considering what i have seen in the same circumstance, and at the time, that was really harsh.  And the kids were retarded for that website, and they deserve to be CAUGHT for underage drinking due to their stupidity.  But at the same time, I dont think it deseved jail time.

 

:finger

[Spiff]

Ugghhh... I must say it...

Until one of those carefree teens hurts you or someone you love.

 

Sorry Spiff... and I do know what you're saying... but this judge has a long and strong rep of being a hard ass on underage drinking. He was only trying to get them on the right track. Sadly.. it took a jail term to do it.

 

 

Yeah, well they didn't hurt anyone. You don't punish people for crimes they could possibly commit. As it was they didn't hurt anyone. Victimless crime; and if you want to relate it to "yourself", how would you like it if you were drinking underage, didn't hurt anyone, and you still got 2 weeks in jail?

[Spiff]

almost as funny as your defense of underage drinking.  But not quite that funny.

 

 

do you know why the drinking age is 21? research it and then tell me that it's justified har har har.

[Steff]

Yeah, well they didn't hurt anyone.  You don't punish people for crimes they could possibly commit.  As it was they didn't hurt anyone.  Victimless crime; and if you want to relate it to "yourself", how would you like it if you were drinking underage, didn't hurt anyone, and you still got 2 weeks in jail?

 

 

Back in the day when the Indiana dunes were the place to go after prom several of my friends DID get arrested for underage drinking, DID get 24 hours in the pokey, and it DID deter most of them from being idiots by drinking and acting like assholes in public. ALL of them were banned from graduation ceremonies. Zero tolerance. We ALL signed an agreement stating that if we were caught drinking that's what would happen. A few of them DIDN'T get the hint and two of them died from alcohol poisening, and another by playing chicken on Southwest Hwy. I drank underage, you bet. But had I gotten caught you bet my ass would have not been stupid enough to slap in the face the person that slapped me on the wrist when he could have made life a lot worse for me. Although back then I doubt I would have gotten a slap on the wrist, like these kids did. And if you want to use that argument at least keep in mind that they were NOT put in jail for drinking.. they were put in jail for VIOLATING a probation agreement THEY AGREED TO.

They got lucky no one got hurt - thank God.

 

The law is 21 because MANY teenagers are IRRESPONSIBLE when it comes to alcohol

 

http://camy.org/factsheets/index.php?FactsheetID=7

 

• Three teens are killed each day when they drink alcohol and drive.1 At least six more die every day from other alcohol-related causes.2

 

• According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 6,002 young people ages 16-20 died in motor vehicle crashes in 2003. Alcohol was involved in 38% of these deaths.3

 

• In 2003, 3,571 young drivers ages 16-20 died in motor vehicle crashes. Of these, 1,131 - approximately 32% - had been drinking, and 26% were legally drunk at the time of the crash.4

 

• A survey of college students in 2001 revealed that, for students under age 21, 26% drove after drinking alcohol, more than 10% drove after consuming more than five drinks, and almost a quarter rode with a high or drunk driver at least once in the 30 days before the survey.5

 

• In the year 2000, only 7% of licensed drivers were ages 15 to 20. However, in that same year, they represented approximately 13% of drivers who had been drinking and were involved in fatal crashes.6

 

Alcohol Dependence:

 

• Americans who began drinking before the age of 15 are four times more likely to develop alcohol dependence than those who wait until the age of 21.7

 

• In November 2004, the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) concluded that alcohol abuse and dependence are "developmental disorders."8

 

• An analysis published in the November 15, 2004 issue of Biological Psychiatry stated that the onset of alcohol dependence peaks by 18 years of age.9

 

Risky Sexual Behavior:

 

• It is estimated that teenage girls who binge drink are up to 63% more likely to become teen mothers.10

 

• In a poll of more than 11,700 college students from 128 colleges in the United States, researchers found that, compared to those who waited to drink until they were 19 or older, college students who got drunk for the first time before age 13 were twice as likely to say they had had unplanned sex because of drinking. They were more than twice as likely to say they had had unprotected sex because of drinking.11

 

• In a study conducted by the Kaiser Family Foundation, 23% (5.6 million) of sexually active teens and young adults ages 15-24 in the United States reported having had unprotected sex because they were drinking or using drugs at the time. Twenty-four percent of teens ages 15-17 said that their alcohol and drug use led them to do more sexually than they had planned.12

 

Health Consequences:

 

• The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that 4,554 underage deaths each year are due to excessive alcohol use.13

 

• Alcohol use plays a substantial role in all three leading causes of death among youth - unintentional injuries (including motor vehicle fatalities and drownings), suicides and homicides.14

 

• Those who begin drinking before the age of 14 are five times more likely than those who begin drinking after the age of 21 to be injured while under the influence of alcohol at some point during their lives.15

 

• Among young people, binge drinkers and heavy drinkers are more than twice as likely as non-drinkers to report having attempted to injure themselves or having contemplated or attempted to commit suicide.16,17

 

• Research has also shown another specific link between heavy alcohol use and youth suicides. States that passed "zero tolerance" laws to reduce youth drinking-driving also experienced statistically significant reductions in suicide deaths among 15- to 20-year-olds, compared to states that did not pass such laws.18

 

• There is growing evidence to suggest that alcohol use prior to age 21 impairs crucial aspects of youthful brain development. In one recent study, heavy-drinking adolescents who had been sober for three weeks still scored 10 percent lower than non-drinking peers on tests requiring verbal and nonverbal recall and skills needed for map reading, geometry, and science.19

 

Social Consequences:

 

• The costs of youth drinking are an estimated $53 billion annually, and include costs to society such as medical care costs and lost productivity, as well as costs to the young drinker such as pain and suffering and loss of income.20

 

• A study that followed over 6,500 individuals found that, by the age of 23, those who were drinkers by seventh grade were:

 

- more likely than non-drinkers to have "missed work for no good reason,"

- more likely to be substance-users,

- more likely to engage in criminal and violent behavior, and

- between 1.7 and 2.3 times more likely to be weekly or binge drinkers, exhibit signs of alcohol dependence, and experience multiple alcohol problems.21

 

Updated July 2005

[YASNY]

Good work, Steff.

 

 

 

 

ironic choice of smilies, eh?

[Kyyle23]

Back in the day when the Indiana dunes were the place to go after prom several of my friends  DID get arrested for underage drinking, DID get 24 hours in the pokey, and it DID deter most of them from being idiots by drinking and acting like assholes in public. ALL of them were banned from graduation ceremonies. Zero tolerance. We ALL signed an agreement stating that if we were caught drinking that's what would happen. A few of them DIDN'T get the hint and two of them died from alcohol poisening, and another by playing chicken on Southwest Hwy. I drank underage, you bet. But had I gotten caught you bet my ass would have not been stupid enough to slap in the face the person that slapped me on the wrist when he could have made life a lot worse for me. Although back then I doubt I would have gotten a slap on the wrist, like these kids did. And if you want to use that argument at least keep in mind that they were NOT put in jail for drinking.. they were put in jail for VIOLATING a probation agreement THEY AGREED TO.

They got lucky no one got hurt - thank God.

 

The law is 21 because MANY teenagers are IRRESPONSIBLE when it comes to alcohol

 

http://camy.org/factsheets/index.php?FactsheetID=7

 

• Three teens are killed each day when they drink alcohol and drive.1 At least six more die every day from other alcohol-related causes.2

 

• According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 6,002 young people ages 16-20 died in motor vehicle crashes in 2003. Alcohol was involved in 38% of these deaths.3

 

• In 2003, 3,571 young drivers ages 16-20 died in motor vehicle crashes. Of these, 1,131 - approximately 32% - had been drinking, and 26% were legally drunk at the time of the crash.4

 

• A survey of college students in 2001 revealed that, for students under age 21, 26% drove after drinking alcohol, more than 10% drove after consuming more than five drinks, and almost a quarter rode with a high or drunk driver at least once in the 30 days before the survey.5

 

• In the year 2000, only 7% of licensed drivers were ages 15 to 20. However, in that same year, they represented approximately 13% of drivers who had been drinking and were involved in fatal crashes.6

 

Alcohol Dependence:

 

• Americans who began drinking before the age of 15 are four times more likely to develop alcohol dependence than those who wait until the age of 21.7

 

• In November 2004, the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) concluded that alcohol abuse and dependence are "developmental disorders."8

 

• An analysis published in the November 15, 2004 issue of Biological Psychiatry stated that the onset of alcohol dependence peaks by 18 years of age.9

 

Risky Sexual Behavior:

 

• It is estimated that teenage girls who binge drink are up to 63% more likely to become teen mothers.10

 

• In a poll of more than 11,700 college students from 128 colleges in the United States, researchers found that, compared to those who waited to drink until they were 19 or older, college students who got drunk for the first time before age 13 were twice as likely to say they had had unplanned sex because of drinking. They were more than twice as likely to say they had had unprotected sex because of drinking.11

 

• In a study conducted by the Kaiser Family Foundation, 23% (5.6 million) of sexually active teens and young adults ages 15-24 in the United States reported having had unprotected sex because they were drinking or using drugs at the time. Twenty-four percent of teens ages 15-17 said that their alcohol and drug use led them to do more sexually than they had planned.12

 

Health Consequences:

 

• The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that 4,554 underage deaths each year are due to excessive alcohol use.13

 

• Alcohol use plays a substantial role in all three leading causes of death among youth - unintentional injuries (including motor vehicle fatalities and drownings), suicides and homicides.14

 

• Those who begin drinking before the age of 14 are five times more likely than those who begin drinking after the age of 21 to be injured while under the influence of alcohol at some point during their lives.15

 

• Among young people, binge drinkers and heavy drinkers are more than twice as likely as non-drinkers to report having attempted to injure themselves or having contemplated or attempted to commit suicide.16,17

 

• Research has also shown another specific link between heavy alcohol use and youth suicides. States that passed "zero tolerance" laws to reduce youth drinking-driving also experienced statistically significant reductions in suicide deaths among 15- to 20-year-olds, compared to states that did not pass such laws.18

 

• There is growing evidence to suggest that alcohol use prior to age 21 impairs crucial aspects of youthful brain development. In one recent study, heavy-drinking adolescents who had been sober for three weeks still scored 10 percent lower than non-drinking peers on tests requiring verbal and nonverbal recall and skills needed for map reading, geometry, and science.19

 

Social Consequences:

 

• The costs of youth drinking are an estimated $53 billion annually, and include costs to society such as medical care costs and lost productivity, as well as costs to the young drinker such as pain and suffering and loss of income.20

 

• A study that followed over 6,500 individuals found that, by the age of 23, those who were drinkers by seventh grade were:

 

- more likely than non-drinkers to have "missed work for no good reason,"

- more likely to be substance-users,

- more likely to engage in criminal and violent behavior, and

- between 1.7 and 2.3 times more likely to be weekly or binge drinkers, exhibit signs of alcohol dependence, and experience multiple alcohol problems.21

 

Updated July 2005

 

 

But why oh why is the drinking age 21? Its so damn unfair, Steff! Everyone should be able to drink at whatever age they choose!

 

This Judge is a meanie!

[Kyyle23]

Yeah, well they didn't hurt anyone.  You don't punish people for crimes they could possibly commit.  As it was they didn't hurt anyone.  Victimless crime; and if you want to relate it to "yourself", how would you like it if you were drinking underage, didn't hurt anyone, and you still got 2 weeks in jail?

 

They didnt drink one time and get caught, they got caught twice, and they shoved it in the law's face. I love how you like to point out that it is a victimless crime BECAUSE someone didnt get hurt, but you refuse to admit that alcohol COULD get these kids killed.

 

What would have happened if these kids would have gotten through prom without getting caught, went to a post prom party at one of their houses, partied some more, and then drove home and plowed into a tree? Wouldnt be so victimless then, would it? You cant even begin to determine what these cops prevented, because you are so hell bent on trying to prove that these cops and the judge were somehow sore-asses and mean and carried vendettas because they followed the law.