Crasnick's "Most significant trades of offseason"

[SSH2005]

Most significant trade? Delgado to Mets

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...erry&id=2317018

1.)  Carlos Delgado to the Mets

2.)  Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell to the Red Sox

3.)  Jim Thome to the White Sox

4.)  Javier Vazquez to the White Sox

5.)  Troy Glaus and Sergio Santos to the Blue Jays

6.)  Coco Crisp, David Riske, and Josh Bard to the Red Sox

3. The White Sox acquire DH Jim Thome and $22 million from the Phillies for center fielder Aaron Rowand and minor league pitchers Daniel Haigwood and Gio Gonzalez.

 

A lot depends on Thome's health, of course, but it seems awfully hasty to write him off after one injury-plagued washout of a season. Thome averaged 41 homers and 110 hits during an extended run of dominance during 1996-2004 before back and elbow problems limited him to 193 at-bats last year. Sixteen days after his replacement, Ryan Howard, won the NL Rookie of the Year award, Thome was a Phillie no more.

 

While Rowand brings some passion to the Phillies clubhouse, Gonzalez is a highly regarded prospect and Howard is now free to relax through the inevitable slumps, the biggest ramifications of this trade will be felt by the defending champion White Sox.

 

How motivated is Thome? When he came to Chicago to take his physical, the Sox medical staff stressed that it was vital for him to be diligent in his rehabilitation. Thome responded by reaching into his pocket and pulling out a calendar with his work schedule for the 3½ months left until spring training.

 

Thome has checked in regularly with hitting coach Greg Walker and trainer Herm Schneider, and he's been in the cage four to five days a week for 150 swings at a crack. According to Sox assistant GM Rick Hahn, he has yet to suffer any setbacks.

 

"This deal has a boom-or-bust feel to it,'' an NL front office man said of the Thome trade, "but the ballpark and the DH aspect will work in his favor. I think this could make the White Sox truly dangerous.''

 

4. The White Sox pick up starter Javier Vazquez from Arizona for center fielder Chris Young, starter Orlando Hernandez and reliever Luis Vizcaino.

 

Vazquez had a truly weird 2005 season. It began with a 6.11 ERA in April followed by a 2.15 ERA in May. He spiked to 6.75 in June, dipped to 3.71 in July, ballooned to 7.09 in August and closed things out with a stellar 2.52 in September and October.

 

"If he doesn't have it all working, he can really fall apart mentally, and that scares you,'' said a scout. "He has three or four good pitches and good command. But sometimes he'll nibble or give up on certain pitches, or fall in love with a certain pitch. And when he's not right, his ball can flatten out. He's definitely underachieved.''

 

Vazquez's inconsistency did nothing to suppress interest in him, even though he had two years and $24 million left on his contract. On the contrary, once A.J. Burnett signed a five-year, $55 million deal with Toronto, Vazquez looked downright reasonable.

 

"We saw the opportunity to pick up another 200-inning strikeout pitcher on the right side of 30,'' Hahn said. "It was an opportunity we couldn't pass up. Having too much pitching really isn't of grave concern to us.''

 

The White Sox now have Vazquez, Jon Garland, Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia and Brandon McCarthy under contractual control for a minimum of two years each. That gives GM Kenny Williams the freedom to shop Jose Contreras at the deadline in July. And as Williams has shown, he's never afraid to do something dramatic.

 

Young, an impressive blend of power and speed, is a legitimate center fielder who has drawn comparisons to Mike Cameron and Eric Davis. He hit 26 homers and stole 32 bases in the Class AA Southern League, and continues to show more patience at the plate each year. Eric Byrnes, signed by Arizona to play center after being non-tendered by the Orioles, is simply keeping the seat warm for Young.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Most significant trade? Delgado to Mets

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...erry&id=2317018

 

Very good article.

[beck72]

On Vazquez---"If he doesn't have it all working, he can really fall apart mentally, and that scares you,'' said a scout. "He has three or four good pitches and good command. But sometimes he'll nibble or give up on certain pitches, or fall in love with a certain pitch. And when he's not right, his ball can flatten out. He's definitely underachieved.''

 

Who else thinks AJ, Ozzie and Cooper will have the same advice for Javier they did with Jon and Jose----'Don't think-- just throw to the glove'?

 

I really haven't followed Vazquez's problems and why he's underachieved. Yet this does sound very correctable--Get the guy to trust his stuff, throw what he's told when he's told, pitch with confidence. With Vazquez's quality pitches, command and high K rate, I wouldn't be surprised if he think he turned into the sox ace this year. He certainly is coming in with less problems to correct than both Jon and Jose did. And his control has always been there. Not bad for a #5 SP [or #4 if Jose is traded]. If Vazquez doesn't turn it around it'll be because of what's going on between his ears and not his arm.

[TLAK]

On Vazquez---"If he doesn't have it all working, he can really fall apart mentally, and that scares you,'' said a scout. "He has three or four good pitches and good command. But sometimes he'll nibble or give up on certain pitches, or fall in love with a certain pitch. And when he's not right, his ball can flatten out. He's definitely underachieved.''

 

Who else thinks AJ, Ozzie and Cooper will have the same advice for Javier they did with Jon and Jose----'Don't think-- just throw to the glove'?

 

I really haven't followed Vazquez's problems and why he's underachieved. Yet this does sound very correctable--Get the guy to trust his stuff, throw what he's told when he's told, pitch with confidence. With Vazquez's quality pitches, command and high K rate, I wouldn't be surprised if he think he turned into the sox ace this year. He certainly is coming in with less problems to correct than both Jon and Jose did. And his control has always been there. Not bad for a #5 SP [or #4 if Jose is traded]. If Vazquez doesn't turn it around it'll be because of what's going on between his ears and not his arm.

Felipe Alou, Frank Robinson, Joe Torre and Bob Melvin must be pretty dumb for not being able to see this very correctable problem. They had Vazquez for 8 years and I guess it never occurred to them that all you have to do is whisper in his ear and everything will be better.

 

The White Sox have very good coaches but to just assume they will turn him around is drinking kool aid. I hope he does well but if he gets blown out 10 times again the team won’t make the playoffs.

[SSH2005]

Felipe Alou, Frank Robinson, Joe Torre and Bob Melvin must be pretty dumb for not being able to see this very correctable problem.  They had Vazquez for 8 years and I guess it never occurred to them that all you have to do is whisper in his ear and everything will be better.

 

The White Sox have very good coaches but to just assume they will turn him around is drinking kool aid.  I hope he does well but if he gets blown out 10 times again the team won’t make the playoffs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vazquez's only really bad season was 2004 with the Yankees. He had two rough seasons (1998 and 1999) to start his career but you can't really hold that against him. Many players stuggle when they first start out in the majors. Last year, he was extremely mediocre but he wasn't completely horrible. He was either lights out or he got rocked. And why would Vazquez's past managers have noticed a problem with him? That's the pitching coach's job, not the manager's. In 2004, Vazquez's pitching coach was Mel Stottlemyre. Stottlemyre never even noticed that Contreras was tipping his pitches. There's a reason the Yankees replaced Stottlemyre with Ron Guidry.

 

Vazquez is currently slated to be our #5 starter. Even if Vazquez repeats his 2005 (4.42 ERA, 1.25 WHIP) or even his 2004 (4.91 ERA, 1.29 WHIP) season with us, that's still better than what El Duque gave us last year (5.12 ERA, 1.46 WHIP) from the #5 spot in the rotation. Your claim that we won't make the playoffs if Vazquez has another down year is unfounded.

 

Would you rather bring back guys like El Duque and Timo so we can be worse next season?

Edited February 5, 2006 by SSH2005

[beck72]

Felipe Alou, Frank Robinson, Joe Torre and Bob Melvin must be pretty dumb for not being able to see this very correctable problem.  They had Vazquez for 8 years and I guess it never occurred to them that all you have to do is whisper in his ear and everything will be better.

 

The White Sox have very good coaches but to just assume they will turn him around is drinking kool aid.  I hope he does well but if he gets blown out 10 times again the team won’t make the playoffs.

Drinking kool aid is expecting the staff to turn a scrub journeyman with few tools into a 20 game winner. Vazquez has always had the stuff, and has had some good seasons where he's put it together. We'll soon see how Vazquez does with the sox. Who exactly knows the issues surrounding Vazquez. But when he's on, he has the best stuff on the staff. Whether he can put it together consistently for the sox is the question.

 

But the sox playoff hopes shouldn't be pinned on how Vazquez does. He should be more than a decent upgrade from El Duque, and then some

Edited February 5, 2006 by beck72

[Kyyle23]

Would you rather bring back guys like El Duque and Timo so we can be worse next season? 

 

I think he would, he has been complaining about just about every move since the offseason started.

[TLAK]

I think he would, he has been complaining about just about every move since the offseason started.

Pretty close, the only move I liked was Marte (after his fight with Ozzie) for Mackowiak. I'm trying to get behind the current players but it's hard for me. Most others on this board are very optimistic while I struggle to see this team equaling, much less improving on last year's bunch.

 

On offense they subtracted 1577 AB, 393 H, 52 HR and 208 RBI. They added 719 AB, 181 H, 17 HR and 90 RBI. A banner year from Thome (.207 BA in 2005) and better production from Anderson (.179 BA in 2005) might balance this but it's a stretch to assume they will improve on it.

 

The big defensive change was to replace Rowand, who may have been the heart of the team, with a rookie who might still be looking for that pop fly in Seattle had Uribe not picked it up off the ground and threw it in. Mackowiak will probably take over most of Iguchi's 30 or so off days, he as a .966 career FP at 2B vs .988 for Willie Harris and .994 for Geoff Blum. I haven't seen Mack play much but the numbers are not encouraging.

 

On the mound they subtracted 288 IN 4.85 AL ERA 19 W 22 L, and added 216 IN 4.42 NL ERA 11 W 15 L. Plus there is another 70 innings to come up with from the likes of Javy Lopez, Arnie Munoz or Chad Bentz.

 

After last season ended Ozzie said he wanted more speed and a 2 hitter. I don't see how any of these moves addressed it, KW just fixed a bunch of other things that were not broken.

 

The joy of baseball is we can forget all about this come opening day, every year in baseball is a new year. I'm not really pessimistic about the team, I just don't buy into the euphoria I see on this board after I do the math.

[SoxFan1]

I still can't believe Thome is on the Sox. Once I finally see him in action wearing a Sox uni, I'll be very giddy.

[YASNY]

Pretty close, the only move I liked was Marte (after his fight with Ozzie) for Mackowiak.  I'm trying to get behind the current players but it's hard for me.  Most others on this board are very optimistic while I struggle to see this team equaling, much less improving on last year's bunch.

 

On offense they subtracted 1577 AB, 393 H, 52 HR and 208 RBI.  They added 719 AB, 181 H, 17 HR and 90 RBI.  A banner year from Thome (.207 BA in 2005) and better production from Anderson (.179 BA in 2005) might balance this but it's a stretch to assume they will improve on it.

 

The big defensive change was to replace Rowand, who may have been the heart of the team, with a rookie who might still be looking for that pop fly in Seattle had Uribe not picked it up off the ground and threw it in.  Mackowiak will probably take over most of Iguchi's 30 or so off days, he as a .966 career FP at 2B vs .988 for Willie Harris and .994 for Geoff Blum.  I haven't seen Mack play much but the numbers are not encouraging.

 

On the mound they subtracted 288 IN 4.85 AL ERA 19 W 22 L, and added 216 IN 4.42 NL ERA 11 W 15 L.  Plus there is another 70 innings to come up with from the likes of Javy Lopez, Arnie Munoz or Chad Bentz. 

 

After last season ended Ozzie said he wanted more speed and a 2 hitter.  I don't see how any of these moves addressed it, KW just fixed a bunch of other things that were not broken.

 

The joy of baseball is we can forget all about this come opening day, every year in baseball is a new year.  I'm not really pessimistic about the team, I just don't buy into the euphoria I see on this board after I do the math.

 

Baseball is not about math. It's all about ballplayers. We've seen these guys play ball, compared to the guys we've lost. We know what these guys can do and the upside of the new guys is higher than the upside of the old guys. Will they achieve to their capabilities? No one can say, but the same can be said about the guys who've been moved.

[RockRaines]

On offense they subtracted 1577 AB, 393 H, 52 HR and 208 RBI.  They added 719 AB, 181 H, 17 HR and 90 RBI.  A banner year from Thome (.207 BA in 2005) and better production from Anderson (.179 BA in 2005) might balance this but it's a stretch to assume they will improve on it.

 

 

 

 

There truly is nothing like comparing the stats of injury-shortened seasons.

[Balta1701]

There truly is nothing like comparing the stats of injury-shortened seasons.

Or from a guy who only spent 34 at bats in the big leagues, against some dang good pitching too.