White House knew NOLA levees broke

[Balta1701]

Ho-Hum...the White House was told by email at 9:27 p.m. on Monday, the evening after Katrina blasted through New Orleans, that the Levees were rupturing, people were stranded, and the city was in terrible condition. I'd like to be able to say something more than ho-hum, but well...I'm just not surprised one iota.

 

In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, Bush administration officials said they had been caught by surprise when they were told on Tuesday, Aug. 30, that a levee had broken, allowing floodwaters to engulf New Orleans.

 

But Congressional investigators have now learned that an eyewitness account of the flooding from a federal emergency official reached the Homeland Security Department's headquarters starting at 9:27 p.m. the day before, and the White House itself at midnight.

 

The Federal Emergency Management Agency official, Marty Bahamonde, first heard of a major levee breach Monday morning. By late Monday afternoon, Mr. Bahamonde had hitched a ride on a Coast Guard helicopter over the breach at the 17th Street Canal to confirm the extensive flooding. He then telephoned his report to FEMA headquarters in Washington, which notified the Homeland Security Department.

 

"FYI from FEMA," said an e-mail message from the agency's public affairs staff describing the helicopter flight, sent Monday night at 9:27 to the chief of staff of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and recently unearthed by investigators. Conditions, the message said, "are far more serious than media reports are currently reflecting. Finding extensive flooding and more stranded people than they had thought — also a number of fires."....

 

White House officials have confirmed to Congressional investigators that the report of the levee break arrived there at midnight, and Trent Duffy, the White House spokesman, acknowledged as much in an interview this week, though he said it was surrounded with conflicting reports.

 

But the alert did not seem to register. Even the next morning, President Bush, on vacation in Texas, was feeling relieved that New Orleans had "dodged the bullet," he later recalled. Mr. Chertoff, similarly confident, flew Tuesday to Atlanta for a briefing on avian flu. With power out from the high winds and movement limited, even news reporters in New Orleans remained unaware of the full extent of the levee breaches until Tuesday.

 

The federal government let out a sigh of relief when in fact it should have been sounding an "all hands on deck" alarm, the investigators have found......

 

On Friday, Mr. Brown, the former FEMA director, is scheduled to testify before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. He is expected to confirm that he notified the White House on that Monday, the day the hurricane hit, that the levee had given way, the city was flooding and his crews were overwhelmed.

 

"There is no question in my mind that at the highest levels of the White House they understood how grave the situation was," Mr. Brown said in the interview.

 

I'd go dig up the pictures of Bush happily strumming the guitar while NOLA flooded or holding up a birthday cake for McCain, but well, it's late.

[Balta1701]

DHS Director Michael Chertoff told us after Katrina he didn't know the Levees broke until Tuesday afternoon. This is false. He was also informed of Levee breaks Early Monday.

[YASNY]

First, it was stated that there were conflicting reports, so it wasn't a slam dunk that the WH 'knew' the levees broke. Second, the first response is the responsibility of the state, not the Feds.

[Texsox]

\ Second, the first response is the responsibility of the state, not the Feds.

 

Not specific to this, but isn't it the ultimate responsibility to the Feds and the WH to assure the emergency response was happening, no matter from who? We created FEMA for a reason.

 

What is really sad is people's opinions of what the Feds and especially the White House whould have done seem t hinge on wether or not you voted for the current imhabitants.

[YASNY]

Not specific to this, but isn't it the ultimate responsibility to the Feds and the WH to assure the emergency response was happening, no matter from who? We created FEMA for a reason.

 

What is really sad is people's opinions of what the Feds and especially the White House whould have done seem t hinge on wether or not you voted for the current imhabitants.

 

The governor of LA would have thrown at good old fashioned tantrum if Bush would have tried to muscle in on her turf. Once she found that she was incapable of handling things, then they started screaming "Where are the Feds?"

[mreye]

Um, what could have been done to save New Orleans between Midnight Monday and Tuesday morning? Just asking.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Um, what could have been done to save New Orleans between Midnight Monday and Tuesday morning? Just asking.

 

They could have begun mobilizing first responder teams from outside the area of impact, surely. And they could have begun to set up a coordinated command center based on the knowledge they had that the situation was dire, even if they were not going to make the news known nationally intil the next day.

 

True story:

 

My supervor's husband Andy is the President of Harris Corporation's Maritime Communictions Division. They build marine data collection bouys that collect information from the seafloor and water column and transmit it up to the buoy through fiber optics, and then out from the buoy through radio to satellites. They had a dozen mobile satellite communication systems put together and ready to go to Africa to fill an order when Katrina hit. The president of the company, who did his graduate work on the Mississippi Gulf coast, made a command decision to divert the units and truck them to the Katrina impact zone. They loaded the units onto rented trucks, told Africa they'd make them new units, and left that Monday evening for the Gulf coast (with the president driving the lead truck). They got no call from government at any level requesting assistance, and it was only dumb luck that they had turnkey satellite communication units on hand and ready to go.

 

(They donated all that equipment, and a week's worth of time for 26 employees, btw. Comes out to a couple million for the gear alone. Andy simply shrugs and chalks it up to, 'it was the right thing to do, pretty much a no-brainer.')

 

If the president of a for-profit corporation with no expertise in natural disasters was able to forsee the need and mobilize such an immediate response then I'm sorry if I can't believe that there was nothing meaningful that FEMA could have done to work toward improving a known dire situation between Monday night and Tuesday morning.

[Controlled Chaos]

Um, what could have been done to save New Orleans between Midnight Monday and Tuesday morning? Just asking.

 

You don't get it man...Bush hates black people. I almost forgot about that until Carter reminded me at Coretta Scott King's funeral.

[Texsox]

The governor of LA would have thrown at good old fashioned tantrum if Bush would have tried to muscle in on her turf.  Once she found that she was incapable of handling things, then they started screaming "Where are the Feds?"

 

Couple of thoughts Mr. YAS

 

You are correct, she would most likely have thrown a hissy fit. And Bush calmly says, we knew this was serious and would require Federal Assistance. This is a National disaster, one of the US's vital cities has been struck with a serious weather disaster. We knew the correct thing to do was to get relief there, and as much as we could muster, and the great residence of New Orleans would not care if it carried a state of federal label. Frankly, I am shocked the Governor of LA would be upset at having the resources of every American coming to her aid.

 

Game.Set.Match for the Texan.

 

There is some hindsight in all this, but once the President grabs a bullhorn and a spot light, she would have been toast.

 

And just like I have cut Dubya slack for not being personally responsible for the Federal response, I don't believe she should carry all the blame. But for those that blame Bush, I believe the Governor should carry the same responsibility as head of the organization.

[mreye]

You don't get it man...Bush hates black people.  I almost forgot about that until Carter reminded me at Coretta Scott King's funeral.

I guess that's what I don't get. OK, The Feds made a mistake. That's a suprise? But, do people honestly believe there was malice intended?

[Texsox]

I guess that's what I don't get. OK, The Feds made a mistake. That's a suprise?  But, do people honestly believe there was malice intended?

 

I think humans being humans, if this was Washington getting hit, there would have been a better response. Another silly analogy, if Wrigley was in danger of flooding and needing to be sandbagged, how fast would you get there? If it was the Cell, how fast?

 

If it was a major military center like San Diego, or perhaps a Texas city like Houston, the response may have been quicker and better.

 

But no, I don't think it was intentional. I don't think anyone in the Federal government cared if the city was black, white, red, or blue. If anything I'll bet there was a HOLY f***ING s*** I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING WHAT THE f*** CAN WE DO and like those minutes between getting hit in the gut and not being able to breath, not much happens. How surreal is it knowing the extent of this disaster and trying to think of the millions things to do. Where do you start?

 

Could we have done better, yes. And the #1 thing I know about Americans we will discect this for years and better procedures will come out and, I pry this never happens again, but if it does, the response will be much better.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I guess that's what I don't get. OK, The Feds made a mistake. That's a suprise?  But, do people honestly believe there was malice intended?

No, not for a minute. It is the unpreparredness and ineptness at so many levels, and now the scramble to pass blame/cover it up, that is infuriating.

[mreye]

I think humans being humans, if this was Washington getting hit, there would have been a better response. Another silly analogy, if Wrigley was in danger of flooding and needing to be sandbagged, how fast would you get there? If it was the Cell, how fast?

 

If it was a major military center like San Diego, or perhaps a Texas city like Houston, the response may have been quicker and better.

 

But no, I don't think it was intentional. I don't think anyone in the Federal government cared if the city was black, white, red, or blue. If anything I'll bet there was a HOLY f***ING s*** I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING WHAT THE f*** CAN WE DO and like those minutes between getting hit in the gut and not being able to breath, not much happens. How surreal is it knowing the extent of this disaster and trying to think of the millions things to do. Where do you start?

 

Could we have done better, yes. And the #1 thing I know about Americans we will discect this for years and better procedures will come out and, I pry this never happens again, but if it does, the response will be much better.

 

 

 

Disecting is great! Pointing fingers and accusing people of racism is not! FEMA was overwelmed. Something this big had never happened before. I don't fault them for be overwelmed.

[mreye]

No, not for a minute.  It is the unpreparredness and ineptness at so many levels, and now the scramble to pass blame/cover it up, that is infuriating.

Passing blame? Like Jimmy Carter?

[Rex Kickass]

Something this big had happened before. In New Orleans, historically.

 

I don't buy that argument. Because the government had ample time to make plans and when the hurricane appeared headed there, to enact those plans. But for whatever reason, they didn't. Period. It's not like they started rescue efforts right away that failed, it's that nothing happened for days.

 

Do I think there was intentional bigotry here? Of course not. Unintentional bigotry? Possibly. But it wasn't a white/black thing - because people in rural LA and MS got hit just as bad and there were plenty of white folk left in the lurch as well. I think it was a poverty thing. I think it was a rich/poor thing.

 

If this had been a well off city, or area, that got hit, you would have seen relief come much faster. And btw, I don't find that to be a Republican or Democrat thing, it just seems to be the way we've traditionally acted as a country sadly.

[southsider2k5]

Disecting is great! Pointing fingers and accusing people of racism is not! FEMA was overwelmed. Something this big had never happened before. I don't fault them for be overwelmed.

 

I do. The "E" in their names said it all. This is the whole reason for their exsistance. If they can't handle something big, they need to shut down FEMA and just let every fen for themselves because the taxpayers are wasting their money. That being said, the primary response in the first 72 hours isn't thier fault. That falls on the mayor and governor and whoever they put in charge of emergency responses. Everything after that falls on FEMA. That being said as well, the state and local officials need to know that IF there is going to be a federal response, the rest of the authorities HAVE to yield their authority and resources to the feds to make sure the job gets done as effeciently as possible. You can't have the governor in a power struggle, and the mayor spreading rumors on TV either. This whole thing was the worst possible FUBAR I could imagine. It was screwed up from the beginning all of the way to the top.

[mreye]

Something this big had happened before. In New Orleans, historically.

 

Wasn't that prior to the formation of FEMA?

[NorthSideSox72]

Disecting is great! Pointing fingers and accusing people of racism is not! FEMA was overwelmed. Something this big had never happened before. I don't fault them for be overwelmed.

 

Oh come on - you don't fault them? It was obvious to me, and others I knew, that LA was in for the storm of the century. It was all over the bloody news for days, and all the NOAA and other tracks put a C4 or C5 hurricane squarely on New Orleans. And oh yeah, the city SAID the levees may not be able to hold a C4, let alone a C4 hurrincane. This was all BEFORE the storm hit.

 

It was utter and complete incompetence. No, I do not believe there was any bit of malice, or even a lack of caring, on Bush's part. Bush was a little slow in pushing things along, but really I only fault him for one thing: his laughably idiotic placement of Brown at the head of FEMA. The biggest blame absolutely falls to him, and the rest of the FEMA structure. And yes, they could have done many, many things that they did not, and that was clear well before the storm hit.

 

And Mr. YAS, I am not sure where you get this state-first thing. But I've actually worked in law enforcement and EMS. Response to an unexpected disaster does indeed tend to cascade up the chain: local - state - fed. But that is just due to the nature of communications, not some rule or law, and thats for something unexpected. This was expected, and it was known that it would effect multple states and hundreds of municipalities. Therefore, the expectation of organization and command rightly falls to the Feds. Obviously, the state of LA screwed up too, and could have better handled its resources. But this was FEMA's screw up from the get-go.

[NorthSideSox72]

You don't get it man...Bush hates black people.  I almost forgot about that until Carter reminded me at Coretta Scott King's funeral.

 

Claims of bigotry, or malice, from the Feds or any level of government as a whole, are baseless. There are racist people in this country, but I don't believe that any entire government agency acted differently towards NO because it is majority black.

 

I simply believe that the EM response of all levels of government was less than I'd expect from a bunch of second graders.

[mreye]

Oh come on - you don't fault them?  It was obvious to me, and others I knew, that LA was in for the storm of the century.  It was all over the bloody news for days, and all the NOAA and other tracks put a C4 or C5 hurricane squarely on New Orleans.  And oh yeah, the city SAID the levees may not be able to hold a C4, let alone a C4 hurrincane.  This was all BEFORE the storm hit.

 

It was utter and complete incompetence.  No, I do not believe there was any bit of malice, or even a lack of caring, on Bush's part.  Bush was a little slow in pushing things along, but really I only fault him for one thing: his laughably idiotic placement of Brown at the head of FEMA.  The biggest blame absolutely falls to him, and the rest of the FEMA structure.  And yes, they could have done many, many things that they did not, and that was clear well before the storm hit.

 

And Mr. YAS, I am not sure where you get this state-first thing.  But I've actually worked in law enforcement and EMS.  Response to an unexpected disaster does indeed tend to cascade up the chain: local - state - fed.  But that is just due to the nature of communications, not some rule or law, and thats for something unexpected.  This was expected, and it was known that it would effect multple states and hundreds of municipalities.  Therefore, the expectation of organization and command rightly falls to the Feds.  Obviously, the state of LA screwed up too, and could have better handled its resources.  But this was FEMA's screw up from the get-go.

 

Yes, it was ll over the news for bloody days, but as I remember it wasn't predicted to be a direct hit on New Orleans until late. Nagin didn't declare an evacuation until less than 24 hous before landfall. Katrina wasn't updated to Cat 5 until exactly 24 hours before landfall and landed as a Cat 4. I refuse to believe that people, humand people, should be able to see the future. As I said, mistakes were made. Hearings and investigations will reveal that and correct it in the future. This was worse than anything they've ever had to deal with.

[Texsox]

Disecting is great! Pointing fingers and accusing people of racism is not! FEMA was overwelmed. Something this big had never happened before. I don't fault them for be overwelmed.

 

 

I agree that the racism stuff isn't useful, unless there was some proof, which there is none that I have seen.

 

But there are two ways to discect and investigate

 

1. Independent

2. Let each agency investigate their own.

 

One leads to finger pointing, option two leads to a watered down it's not my fault response. I'm not certain which is better, but I'd rather some finger pointing happen then a buddy buddy I'll cover your ass, you cover mine mentality.

[NorthSideSox72]

Yes, it was ll over the news for bloody days, but as I remember it wasn't predicted to be a direct hit on New Orleans until late. Nagin didn't declare an evacuation until less than 24 hous before landfall.  Katrina wasn't updated to Cat 5 until exactly 24 hours before landfall and landed as a Cat 4. I refuse to believe that people, humand people, should be able to see the future. As I said, mistakes were made. Hearings and investigations will reveal that and correct it in the future. This was worse than anything they've ever had to deal with.

 

If you don't put the responsibility on the shoulders of FEMA to properly respond to what the entire country saw, then what's the point of them preparing at all? Your argument is dangerous. I expect FEMA to act like what it is - the world's foremost emergency management agency. If they can't read a damn weather report (which all clearly pointed out DAYS before hand that it would likely become a C4 or 5, and would be at or near NO), then fire the decision makers and get someone in there who knows his a** from a rathole.

 

You see, we can see into the future. I do it every time I turn on the weather channel.

[NorthSideSox72]

"Brownie" testifying today...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_...atrina_congress

 

Says it was DHS' fault. Now, I agree that FEMA should never been put under DHS (for that matter, there should never have been a DHS). But for him to say that kept him from responding is just assinine. This guy has made every excuse in the book. He's just inept.

[mreye]

If you don't put the responsibility on the shoulders of FEMA to properly respond to what the entire country saw, then what's the point of them preparing at all?  Your argument is dangerous.  I expect FEMA to act like what it is - the world's foremost emergency management agency.  If they can't read a damn weather report (which all clearly pointed out DAYS before hand that it would likely become a C4 or 5, and would be at or near NO), then fire the decision makers and get someone in there who knows his a** from a rathole.

 

You see, we can see into the future.  I do it every time I turn on the weather channel.

Oh yeah, and the weather report has never been wrong, that's a weak example.

 

Brown's out at FEMA, that's what your advocating. I agree with it. Now, if these same mistakes are made again I'm gonna be pissed. Kinda "Fool me once..."

 

I disagree that "the entire country" saw what was going to happen. Hindsight is great, isn't it?

 

 

 

Anyway, are you guys watching this? Brown is already getting s***ty and hasn't been being questioned that long.

[CanOfCorn]

The problem is a lack of preparedness. As has been said. If the feds didn't want to step on the local or states toes, that's fine, but they should be RIGHT BEHIND THEM, breathing down their necks. Or close enough that if something should go wrong, they can jump in.

 

Weather reports or no weather reports, New Orleans is a dangerous city to live in when it comes to heavy rains and flooding. EVERYONE should have been ready as soon as there was a threat...and I mean EVERYONE.

 

The mayor, the governor, FEMA, and even the President f'ed up on this. They are all to blame. That's what bugs me...each group is pushing blame when instead they should all stand together and realize...we all f***ed up, we admit it, and now, we are going to fix it...TOGETHER!!!

 

BTW, I will be going to NO for my bachelor party because the best thing I can do for them is pump some money back into their economy (at least that what the NO Convention and Tourism Bureau says).